How does Low oxygen brewing work with Aerating the wort?

[Deadalus]

O2 is more effective than olive oil. That was the final conclusion after testing. Only about 1/3 of O2 mopped up gets channelled into membrane potential for budding. At least some of the other 2/3 is promoting other apparently beneficial biological process(es). I suspect it simply boils down to a period of more efficient aerobic respiration under the circumstances

Whose final conclusion after testing are you referring to?

 

[McMullan]

Whose final conclusion after testing are you referring to?

The original dissertation that never got published after peer review

 

[Deadalus]

The original dissertation that never got published after peer review

It was a thesis that is linked in the article not a dissertation. Which illustrates why I asked, to be sure what specific publication you are referring to.

Next, scientific discussion is not conducted as a mystery. If you make a statement about the results of a study, it is expected that you cite the source, at least by author and year, with the full citation available upon request. That's your responsibility not the audience's. YOU wouldn't get past peer review with that kind of attitude.

So whose final conclusion after testing are you referring to?

 

[McMullan]

It was a thesis that is linked in the article not a dissertation. Which illustrates why I asked, to be sure what specific publication you are referring to.

Next, scientific discussion is not conducted as a mystery. If you make a statement about the results of a study, it is expected that you cite the source, at least by author and year, with the full citation available upon request. That's your responsibility not the audience's. YOU wouldn't get past peer review with that kind of attitude.

So whose final conclusion after testing are you referring to?

This is a home brew forum, not a science platform. I haven't submitted anything for peer review here. Reread the dissertation. Olive oil was associated with slower fermentation therefore not considered a viable alternative to O2, at least for commercial breweries. Conclusion: O2 is more effective. If olive oil works for you, as a home brewer, that's great. No one's saying you can't do what you want, are they?

 

[Deadalus]

This is a home brew forum, not a science platform. I haven't submitted anything for peer review here. Reread the dissertation. Olive oil was associated with slower fermentation therefore not considered a viable alternative to O2, at least for commercial breweries. Conclusion: O2 is more effective. If olive oil works for you, as a home brewer, that's great. No one's saying you can't do what you want, are they?

Today was the first I heard of it. I was more interested in why OO might be considered as a replacement. So I read the article, then parts of the 35 page thesis submitted by the candidate for MSc Grady Hull. The Word document is called OliveOilThesis.doc. The study has also been published in the the Technical Quarterly of the Master Brewers Association of the Americas in 2007. 45(2007) pp17-23. I can't guarantee it was blind peer reviewed as I don't have access to the journal but I expect it would have had at least some level of peer review.

Again though, without you providing the citation, it wasn't clear what results you were referring to. You also mentioned a 1/3 uptake of O2 immediately after (no paragraph break) which I didn't see mentioned by Hull. Maybe something you know but probably won't provide a citation for that an interested reader might be inclined to learn about.

One thing I did find interesting in the thesis was the increased esters with olive oil In some of my reading on yeasts and styles this might be a favorable outcome perhaps worth exploring.

The linked article by @belgabrewing does not include detailed citations. I did not find the find the Flavours in Beer pub nor the specific thread that the olive oil calculation may have come from to check the math.

 

[hopjuice_71]

That thesis (which is a dissertation) lacks a key control - a no O2/no olive oil batch. It is quite possible that such a batch would perform the same as the olive oil batch(es), which did ferment out more slowly. Oddly, I can't find a formally published version of that study. There does not seem to be a 2007 volume of MBAA Technical Quarterly. Given the lack of the critical control sample, it wouldn't surprise me if it never was published as I can't see any reviewer accepting the results.

Edit: it seems to have been published in 2008, not 2007, and I can't get access to it either. I'm shocked it was published.

 

[Deadalus]

That thesis (which is a dissertation) lacks a key control - a no O2/no olive oil batch. It is quite possible that such a batch would perform the same as the olive oil batch(es), which did ferment out more slowly. Oddly, I can't find a formally published version of that study. There does not seem to be a 2007 volume of MBAA Technical Quarterly. Given the lack of the critical control sample, it wouldn't surprise me if it never was published as I can't see any reviewer accepting the results.

Edit: it seems to have been published in 2008, not 2007, and I can't get access to it either. I'm shocked it was published.

Sorry. I used one of the 8 references that cited it and they had it as 2007. Others have it as 2008. That journal goes back to at least 1964 however but they only went online in 2009 I think it said.

I get that it could be called a dissertation by calling it new research but the program at the university he attended is a one year program (currently), he had only 2 committee members, it was for a MSc, and it was 35 pages. I'm not going to bag on the guy but few academics are going to call that a dissertation.

It can be hard to get permission to run experiments on production lines where you are interrupting high volume production of goods.

Brad Smith at Beersmith blogged about it back in 2015 but a respondent noted he had the unit types mixed up which he fixed.

 

[hopjuice_71]

Sorry. I used one of the 8 references that cited it and they had it as 2007. Others have it as 2008. That journal goes back to at least 1964 however but they only went online in 2009 I think it said.

I get that it could be called a dissertation by calling it new research but the program at the university he attended is a one year program (currently), he had only 2 committee members, it was for a MSc, and it was 35 pages. I'm not going to bag on the guy but few academics are going to call that a dissertation.

It can be hard to get permission to run experiments on production lines where you are interrupting high volume production of goods.

Brad Smith at Beersmith blogged about it back in 2015 but a respondent noted he had the unit types mixed up which he fixed.

Haha, yeah, I am an academic scientist but given it was a research project towards completion of a graduate degree I would be forced to call it a dissertation or thesis, irrespective of my issues with the design and quality.

I understand the issues with experimental design in a production setting. What puzzles me is that the experiments comprise an interesting preliminary result that was never followed up on, at least that I can find, though I admit to not looking very hard. The experiment could easily have been scaled down and a set of proper controls included. With out it I don't put much faith in the olive oil thing.

 

[McMullan]

Where I come from (the UK) it’s a dissertation, academically speaking. And thesis is reserved for a PhD submission. I find semantics thoroughly boring, personally. In my experience, when there’s no formal research following an interesting, potentially useful idea, it‘s because it turned out to be negative or otherwise inferior to already established practices. No one wants to do worse, do they? Unfortunately, negative results hardly ever get published, unless there’s a con involved.

 

[hopjuice_71]

Where I come from (the UK) it’s a dissertation, academically speaking. And thesis is reserved for a PhD submission. I find semantics thoroughly boring, personally. In my experience, when there’s no formal research following an interesting, potentially useful idea, it‘s because it turned out to be negative or otherwise inferior to already established practices. No one wants to do worse, do they? Unfortunately, negative results hardly ever get published, unless there’s a con involved.

This is my suspicion as well - any follow ups have been lost in the purgatory of negative results.

 

[MHBT]

pitch yeast first before oxygenating

 

[jtratcliff]

Where I come from (the UK) it’s a dissertation, academically speaking. And thesis is reserved for a PhD submission.

Ha.... here on the other side of the pond it's the opposite... A Master's Thesis, and a PhD Dissertation...
Pain in the ass either way

I was fortunate in that my program only required me to pass a qualifying exam to earn the MS if I was proceeding to a PhD... no Master's thesis.
But if I wanted to stop at the MS, a written thesis was required.

 

[DuncB]

I've had a look at the oil numbers and if I make 15 gallons US of wort it's basically 0.1 ml of olive oil. That's a more manageable quantity, but for my oil and vinaigrette saison I'd need a third of 0.1 ml vinegar to get the correct ratio. So back to square one.
So I'm shelving the whole plan.
Which can't be a bad idea.