How do you store bulk hop pellets after breaking the seal

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Alcoholica

Alcoholica

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Sorry for such a basic question but I've had over a pound of hops opened up a few days and started thinking I may have to put these in the fridge or something..
All I needed was around an oz out of them..I put the open bag into a zip lock freezer storage bag and set them in a dry area. They are fresh 2013.
Will this be O.k.? Or is there a proper way to do this. How do you store your own bulk pellets? Thank you
 
:mug:Thanks for the info.I'm so glad I asked and I'm very impressed with the amount of responses here..
How do you know if hop pellets are stale,Do they smell bad or change colors?
 
Vacuum sealer is going to be your best bet.

I think all Foodsavers now have the external port on them that comes with a hose.
You can buy a jar attachment for standard mason jars and seal those for about $10 online.

If you have a lot of various hops it can be the cheaper way to go, as freezer bags are fairly expensive and storing 1/2oz of hops worth maybe a dollar in a bag thats not reusable worth 1-2 dollars seems a bit ridiculous.

The jars are nice because you can pull the lid to release the vacuum, pull out the hops you need, or add more, put the lid on and reseal it in a matter of seconds with no waste.

That said you NEED to put them in a fridge at the minimum, freezer or deep freezer if you have the ability.
There's a famous equation that relates to this that basically states for every +10C the reaction rate doubles, the reaction your wanting to avoid in this case is the loss of alpha acids.

Properly frozen hops can easily last a year if they were vacuum sealed, even longer if they are purged with CO2 before vacuum sealing.
 
I d what fuzzewuzze does plus I put the jar in the lightproof bag the hops came in, for added uv protection. Not sure how much that really helps. I plan to start flushing with co2 as soon as I fix my 2nd regultor.
 
Ziplock mylar bags work well for me. Close up the original bag, stick a piece of duck tape on there, then stick that bag into the ziplock mylar bag and try to evacuate as much air as you can out of the bag and close it up. Then stick it in the freezer.
 
Alcoholica said:
:mug:Thanks for the info.I'm so glad I asked and I'm very impressed with the amount of responses here..
How do you know if hop pellets are stale,Do they smell bad or change colors?
Click to expand...

As the hops age they start to have a cheesy aroma (and not a good one). Those aged hops are usually what the Belgian Lambics use for their hops... Usually have very little of the flavor left and still provide a little of the bittering and preservatives to the beer.
 
FuzzeWuzze said:
Vacuum sealer is going to be your best bet.

I think all Foodsavers now have the external port on them that comes with a hose.
You can buy a jar attachment for standard mason jars and seal those for about $10 online.

If you have a lot of various hops it can be the cheaper way to go, as freezer bags are fairly expensive and storing 1/2oz of hops worth maybe a dollar in a bag thats not reusable worth 1-2 dollars seems a bit ridiculous.

The jars are nice because you can pull the lid to release the vacuum, pull out the hops you need, or add more, put the lid on and reseal it in a matter of seconds with no waste.

That said you NEED to put them in a fridge at the minimum, freezer or deep freezer if you have the ability.
There's a famous equation that relates to this that basically states for every +10C the reaction rate doubles, the reaction your wanting to avoid in this case is the loss of alpha acids.

Properly frozen hops can easily last a year if they were vacuum sealed, even longer if they are purged with CO2 before vacuum sealing.
Click to expand...

Actually hops are purged with Nitrogen not CO2. Granted flushing with CO2 is better then nothing.

As far as the jars... They take up a significant amount of space compared to small pouches that can go into an unused ice tray and each time you open them you are flooding the entire jar with fresh oxygen, which helps degrade the quality of the hops. To me it makes better sense to make small bags using my FoodSaver and packaging hops for my recipes. I have 1oz bittering packets of CTZ, 2oz CTZ for dry hopping, 2oz and 3oz of Cascade for flavor and aroma additions. I just grab exactly what I need from the freezer, don't have to put them on a scale since that was already done and open and add to the biol per my recipe. By spending a little bit of time, effort and money, my hops are nearly as fresh today as they were when I got them last February.
 
I'm picking up a few lbs of pellet hops today to split up and seal for later use. I won't however be brewing with them for at least a week or two. would it be a better idea to leave them in the nitrogen purged lb bags for now and divide them up on brew day, or do it right away? Will it make much of a difference in the long run?
 
coolharry said:
I'm picking up a few lbs of pellet hops today to split up and seal for later use. I won't however be brewing with them for at least a week or two. would it be a better idea to leave them in the nitrogen purged lb bags for now and divide them up on brew day, or do it right away? Will it make much of a difference in the long run?
Click to expand...

The longer they can stay in the Nitrogen purged bags the better. If you have allocated enough time to break them down on brew day that would be best, I typically break mine down the night before my first brew planned with them. My 2# of CTZ I bought last February I left 1# of them in the original purged bad until September when I needed more of them.
 
I Assumed That Co2 would be more effective than Nitrogen at removing air being that it is heavier than Oxygen and Nitrogen.. And didn't realize that storing hops required being this strategic or careful. You would think the LHBS would keep them in a cooler instead of a rack.

After reading this I don't think I'll buy anymore 1 oz. packs of hops from the store off the spindle rack or shelf anymore.. They have been sitting around who knows how long.. But if they are stale and can still be used that is good news, not all hope is lost..

I just put my pound of cascades in the freezer along with my unopened 1 oz. bags ,all in one freezer bag for now
:ban: Yall probably just saved my hops :ban:
 
Alcoholica said:
I Assumed That Co2 would be more effective than Nitrogen at removing air being that it is heavier than Oxygen and Nitrogen.. And didn't realize that storing hops required being this strategic or careful. You would think the LHBS would keep them in a cooler instead of a rack.

After reading this I don't think I'll buy anymore 1 oz. packs of hops from the store off the spindle rack or shelf anymore.. They have been sitting around who knows how long.. But if they are stale and can still be used that is good news, not all hope is lost..

I just put my pound of cascades in the freezer along with my unopened 1 oz. bags ,all in one freezer bag for now
:ban: Yall probably just saved my hops :ban:
Click to expand...

There probably isn't anything terribly wrong with the small pouches at your LHBS, but if they are sitting out on a rack and not in at least a refrigerated cooler, I would politely ask why they aren't keeping them cool, if they can't give you a reasonable answer, then politely thank them for the supplies they have provided in the past. Makes me wonder how they handle their yeast as well....

A Nitrogen flush is much colder than CO2, Nitrogen also pulls Oxygen from the air as opposed to displacing it like CO2. I don't bother to flush mine when I re-package them, but I do work very quickly and in a refrigerated space.
 
cabron99 said:
1 liter plastic bottle + tire stem in top + air chuck on a co2 line = great hops storage. Just purge a couple of times and store in freezer.
Click to expand...

I saw this for a cider sample a guy brought into my LHBS... I couldn't imagine what it was until I got to really lock at it... Pretty smart idea.
 
CA_Mouse said:
I would politely ask why they aren't keeping them cool, if they can't give you a reasonable answer, then politely thank them for the supplies they have provided in the past. Makes me wonder how they handle their yeast as well....
Click to expand...

I just assumed that they were the experts,. I just started pondering about the thought of fresh ingredients before I posted this thread.. However I did ask the girl that works there at night about the yeast, as it is a living product.
She's just a college student and not a brewer and her answer was ,Oh it's fresh.. But it's our only LHBS so I do appreciate the supplies Past and future,Lol .Especially The Breiss CBW LME's So I can brew something :rockin:
 
Holy moly! So many people here worrying about vaccum sealing, mylar bags, and CO2/nitrogen purging.

You want the low down? Here's why all of that is essentially pointless.

Temperature is far and away the most important factor in the breakdown of alpha acids.

Some food for thought:

Willamette, 5.4% AA, 40.0% HSI. Aged 12 months.

@ 70F, ziplock bag - 3.15% AA (lost 41.6%)
@ 70F, glass jar - 3.61% AA (lost 33.1%)
@ 70F, vacuumed mylar bag - 4.13% AA (lost 23.5%)

@ -20F, ziplock bag - 5.12% AA (lost 5.2%)
@ -20F, glass jar - 5.19% AA (lost 3.8%)
@ -20F, vacuumed mylar bag - 5.26% AA (lost 2.6%)

In the above example, temperature plays a role 9x larger than the permeability of the container. This 9x factor varies based on the HSI of the hops, but the point remains the same. At -20F in a ziplock bag, the above hops won't lose 50% of their AA until they hit 78 months old. In a vacuumed mylar bag, until 85 months old. Of course, if you're storing hops that long, you have an inventory management problem.

Because of the negligible difference permeability of the container makes, I typically recommend freezing in a mason jar. One quart mason jar holds 17-19 oz of hops, depending on pellet size.

If you're feeling really paranoid, feel free to use a jar attachment on a vacuum sealer (more expensive) or the brake pump method (cheaper).
 
CA_Mouse said:
Actually hops are purged with Nitrogen not CO2. Granted flushing with CO2 is better then nothing.

As far as the jars... They take up a significant amount of space compared to small pouches that can go into an unused ice tray and each time you open them you are flooding the entire jar with fresh oxygen, which helps degrade the quality of the hops. To me it makes better sense to make small bags using my FoodSaver and packaging hops for my recipes. I have 1oz bittering packets of CTZ, 2oz CTZ for dry hopping, 2oz and 3oz of Cascade for flavor and aroma additions. I just grab exactly what I need from the freezer, don't have to put them on a scale since that was already done and open and add to the biol per my recipe. By spending a little bit of time, effort and money, my hops are nearly as fresh today as they were when I got them last February.
Click to expand...

What do you do when a recipe leaves you with .25oz or .5oz of hops? Just throw them away? Thats why i prefer the jars, because hops from the shops here come in 2oz bags, and when im making like say a Hefe or something i use maybe .5oz...wasting a dollar or more on a freezer bag for hops that are worth 50 cents seems wasteful, and throwing them out just seems dumb when their perfectly good hops.

They do take up more space I agree, but at least for me my 5-6ish pint sized jars fit in the shelf in the door of the freezer to keep them out of the way.

I dont think opening the jar and "flooding" it with oxygen is ruining the hops, its all about contact time, and in that respect they are no different than opening a bag and then resealing it in a new vacuum sealed bag.

Oh and yes i forgot it was Nitrogen, but most of us dont have that so CO2 works ;)
 
Alco:
If, in future, you plan to keg-carbonate, you might consider getting CO2 equip't soon. You will wonder how you ever did w/o it. I use it to flush hops, grain, headspace(you will never have to worry about unwanted oxidation or too large fermenters), even the last bit of space after bottle filling. Look for new/used regulator soon, in case it needs repairs.
The stuff is dirt cheap, half again as heavy as air. You usually 'buy' small gas cylinders from the distributor(like AirGas), and when MT, merely exchange for a full one. Don't run out and buy one from a HBS; go ask your local dist'r about their terms: they may not honor your new cyl., then you have a nice $120 paperweight.
Compressed gasses are DOT regulated, so don't try to cheat.
 
How long is it safe to assume they're good in the fridge in a zip lock bag? Is two weeks safe? I've had some in the fridge for a week that I want to use next weekend. They're already stinking up the fridge which got me wondering. Id be happy spending a few bucks for new hops if there's any chance these would be bad already and ruin a batch.
 
carton132 said:
I wouldn't throw them away, I'd just throw them in the boiling wort. :)
Click to expand...

LOL, I'm really starting to feel better about my 2.5 gallon batch after some of these comments about "store the hops in my beer"and throwing an extra 0.75 oz in rather than throwing it away,lol

Now I'm starting to believe I didn't over do it with my hops on my 3.3 lb Amber LME , 2.5 gallon batch with a bunch of hops ,
.33 oz. for 60mins Centennials , .75oz for 20mins cascade and .75 oz for 5 minutes cascade.. I thought that may have ended up being a bitter and ugly mistake. This is like getting 2 questions answered in one thread,thanks:cross:
 
week0019 said:
How long is it safe to assume they're good in the fridge in a zip lock bag? Is two weeks safe? I've had some in the fridge for a week that I want to use next weekend. They're already stinking up the fridge which got me wondering. Id be happy spending a few bucks for new hops if there's any chance these would be bad already and ruin a batch.
Click to expand...

Does it smell like bad cheese? I heard they use those hops in some Belgium beers over there for bittering.
Somebody already mentioned up to a year in the freezer referring to my fresh 2013 pellets.. But I'm just learning.. Maybe because it was in the fridge instead of the freezer.Just going by the info someone left previously about temperature being the determining factor of the hops retaining the alpha acids ..Which I googled and found to be conclusive :mug:
 
Heh, well it's all subjective of course but my wife and I tend towards hoppier IPAs and Imperial stouts so we never shy away from more hops. I'm enjoying the fact that I can pump a ludicrous amount of ingredients into small batches without worrying about margins like the pros have to.
 
Oh, and I'm doing 2.5 and 3 gallon batches as well. Not many people to share with so bigger batches would just be asking for trouble.
 
carton132 said:
Oh, and I'm doing 2.5 and 3 gallon batches as well. Not many people to share with so bigger batches would just be asking for trouble.
Click to expand...
Nahhh, Trouble only comes when there is no beer,lol :tank:
I just like a variety, Plus I found a great deal on 3 used Mr. Beer kits.. Got 3 of them brewing now. And fixing to do the 4th one,Thats the one my wife bought me...Heck I just started brewing. Haven't even drunk my second batch yet. Probably like 4.0% abv . though , so no trouble there...
And with My luck I'll ruin a 5 or 6 gallon batch. I have the carboy waiting for a good extract brew though, I just have to find it and nail it in the 2.5 gallon version first.
 
thadius856 said:
Holy moly! So many people here worrying about vaccum sealing, mylar bags, and CO2/nitrogen purging.

You want the low down? Here's why all of that is essentially pointless.

Temperature is far and away the most important factor in the breakdown of alpha acids.

Some food for thought:

Willamette, 5.4% AA, 40.0% HSI. Aged 12 months.

@ 70F, ziplock bag - 3.15% AA (lost 41.6%)
@ 70F, glass jar - 3.61% AA (lost 33.1%)
@ 70F, vacuumed mylar bag - 4.13% AA (lost 23.5%)

@ -20F, ziplock bag - 5.12% AA (lost 5.2%)
@ -20F, glass jar - 5.19% AA (lost 3.8%)
@ -20F, vacuumed mylar bag - 5.26% AA (lost 2.6%)

In the above example, temperature plays a role 9x larger than the permeability of the container. This 9x factor varies based on the HSI of the hops, but the point remains the same. At -20F in a ziplock bag, the above hops won't lose 50% of their AA until they hit 78 months old. In a vacuumed mylar bag, until 85 months old. Of course, if you're storing hops that long, you have an inventory management problem.

Because of the negligible difference permeability of the container makes, I typically recommend freezing in a mason jar. One quart mason jar holds 17-19 oz of hops, depending on pellet size.

If you're feeling really paranoid, feel free to use a jar attachment on a vacuum sealer (more expensive) or the brake pump method (cheaper).
Click to expand...
Dude come on, we over think and over engineer everything. All the toys are half the fun. Great point though. I don't doubt your data, but what is the source for future reference.
 
FuzzeWuzze said:
What do you do when a recipe leaves you with .25oz or .5oz of hops? Just throw them away? Thats why i prefer the jars, because hops from the shops here come in 2oz bags, and when im making like say a Hefe or something i use maybe .5oz...wasting a dollar or more on a freezer bag for hops that are worth 50 cents seems wasteful, and throwing them out just seems dumb when their perfectly good hops.
Click to expand...

No one even suggested throwing hops away. I haven't done a single recipe that leaves behind .25 oz or .5 oz of hops. In a case where a recipe would call for .5oz of a bittering hop (again, I have never had one that did), I would just do a double batch. I, also, don't use freezer bags. I use sealable mylar bags that I can control the size of. If I only needed .5 oz of hops for an entire batch I would just seal them in a small pouch. The mylar bags cost me $5 for enough bags to seal up 3 lbs of hops. a single mylar bag can be broken down to hold 6 to 8 brew sized hop pouches.

FuzzeWuzze said:
They do take up more space I agree, but at least for me my 5-6ish pint sized jars fit in the shelf in the door of the freezer to keep them out of the way.
Click to expand...

Jars work for you, that is fine. Try having 10, 12 or more varieties of hops. I can put 8 lbs in mylar bags into a single ice bin, leaving room for jugs of water for a swamp cooler and ice cream. Currently my freezer has 16 varieties of hops and 4 gallons of frozen water.

FuzzeWuzze said:
I dont think opening the jar and "flooding" it with oxygen is ruining the hops, its all about contact time, and in that respect they are no different than opening a bag and then resealing it in a new vacuum sealed bag.
Click to expand...

Again, I never stated that I open and reseal my mylar bags. Once I package my hops they are already setup for the beers I'm going to brew and only get opened on brew day.

The following is a quote from Brad Smith on Hop Storage...

"Oxygen is also an enemy of hops because hop oils and alpha acids will oxidize. Oxidized alpha acids lose their bitterness, and old hops will take on a “cheesy” aroma. A plastic/poly bag is the worst storage vessel for your hops because plastic bags are still permeable to air. You can smell the hops right through a typical plastic bag, which is an indicator that it is not much of an oxygen barrier.

An oxygen barrier bag or an airtight jar make a much better container, though these still typically contain some air. The best container is a vacuum sealed oxygen barrier such as a vacuum packed foil pouch, typically made from a layer of food grade plastic and layer of mylar."

This was not about doing anything right or wrong, the OP asked for suggestions and that was what I provided to him. Each and every one of us does things differently based on how we were taught, the amount of space available to us and our brewing style. Most people have a food sealer already, why buy a bunch of jars if you already have the means to vacuum seal pouches?
 
CA_Mouse said:
No one even suggested throwing hops away. I haven't done a single recipe that leaves behind .25 oz or .5 oz of hops. In a case where a recipe would call for .5oz of a bittering hop (again, I have never had one that did), I would just do a double batch. I, also, don't use freezer bags. I use sealable mylar bags that I can control the size of. If I only needed .5 oz of hops for an entire batch I would just seal them in a small pouch. The mylar bags cost me $5 for enough bags to seal up 3 lbs of hops. a single mylar bag can be broken down to hold 6 to 8 brew sized hop pouches.
Click to expand...

You're not adjusting your recipes for the AA value of your hops?

If you were, you'd know that recipes NEVER come out with even ounces, halves, or quarters.

CA_Mouse said:
Jars work for you, that is fine. Try having 10, 12 or more varieties of hops. I can put 8 lbs in mylar bags into a single ice bin, leaving room for jugs of water for a swamp cooler and ice cream. Currently my freezer has 16 varieties of hops and 4 gallons of frozen water.
Click to expand...

Mylar bags work for you, that is fine. Try having 24 varieties of hops. I have all 22# on the floor of a single freezer, leaving room for 50 vials of farmed yeast, with 80# of meat and potatoes on top in easy lift-out bins.

Not that it matters, but why do you have 4 gallons of frozen water?

CA_Mouse said:
Again, I never stated that I open and reseal my mylar bags. Once I package my hops they are already setup for the beers I'm going to brew and only get opened on brew day.
Click to expand...

Hats off to you. I plan most of my brews the week, or even morning, of brew day.

CA_Mouse said:
The following is a quote from Brad Smith on Hop Storage...

"Oxygen is also an enemy of hops because hop oils and alpha acids will oxidize. Oxidized alpha acids lose their bitterness, and old hops will take on a “cheesy” aroma. A plastic/poly bag is the worst storage vessel for your hops because plastic bags are still permeable to air. You can smell the hops right through a typical plastic bag, which is an indicator that it is not much of an oxygen barrier.

An oxygen barrier bag or an airtight jar make a much better container, though these still typically contain some air. The best container is a vacuum sealed oxygen barrier such as a vacuum packed foil pouch, typically made from a layer of food grade plastic and layer of mylar."
Click to expand...

No way. Brad Smith? PhD? The guy who wrote BeerSmith, where I pulled the numbers above from? *GASP*

Edit: You do realize they make mason jar vacuum sealer attachments, right?
 

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