How do I improve my cider?

[idonteateggs91]

Hey there, I've been brewing cider for a few years now. I've developed a recipe/process that I really love but now I'm at the point where I don't know how to improve. I thought I'd outline my process here and ask if anyone has any tips or suggestions to make it better.

This recipe makes for a very dry, light and clear cider. Very basic, refreshing taste.

Recipe:
-1 gallon of non pasteurized, no preservatives apple cider (from my local orchard, Appleton farms in Ipswich, MA to be exact)
-1 packet (5g) of Lalvin EC-1118 Yeast
-1/4 tsp of yeast nutrients
-1/2 teaspoon pectic enzyme (for clarity)
-1/3 cup of frozen apple juice concentrate (to back sweeten)

Process
-Add 1/4 tsp of yeast nutrients to 1 gallon of apple cider
-Add 1/2 teaspoon pectic enzyme (for clarity)
-Let sit for a few hours (3 or 4)
-Pitch 1 packet (5g) of Lalvin EC-1118 Yeast
-Allow cider to sit in primary fermentation for two weeks
-Transfer to different carboy for secondary fermentation
-Allow cider to sit in secondary fermentation for two weeks
-Mix in 1/3 cup of frozen apple juice concentrate to back sweeten
-Bottle
-Allow to age as long as possible

If you have any tips on improving the process or adding ingredients to improve, let me know. I'd love to make it a little sweeter and give it some more "apple" flavor. But I recognize those things are difficult to do without kegging.

Thanks!

 

[bucketnative]

Maybe change your yeast. A lot of people on this forum will denigrate EC-1118 as a flavor killer, fermenting fast enough that it strips out "all" of the apple flavor. I don't have experience with it. But, if you experiment with different yeasts, you might find one that you really like.

Personally, I would age it much longer (both primary and secondary vessels).

You don't mention temperature control, but low and slow is always better than hot and fast.

Tough to give hints without knowing exactly what you want to improve, other than sweetness. It's up to you as to what you like, and experimentation will get you there over time.

 

[ExperimentalBrewer]

All hail the mighty Nottingham Ale Yeast. Made such a difference for me. Also I don't think you need to use that much yeast for a 1 gal batch. I don't know if it will affect the flavor, but it will save you some money.

I only use 1/4 tsp. But some would say I under pitch.

 

[bernardsmith]

Brewers might "hail" ale yeasts but many cider makers prefer 71B. You might rack based on the gravity and not your calendar - that is to say when the gravity falls to about 1.005 . You might age two to three months and then rack and then allow the cider to age for another 2-3 months. Twelve months aging with 71B generally radically transforms the cider into a far smoother drink (71B transforms about 40% of the malic acid into lactic acid)...

 

[tomofdarkness]

I generally use the Danstar/Lallemand Nottingham Ale yeast for cider, unless I'm shooting for a ridiculous ABV. my approximate recipe:

6 gallons fresh cider from the local farm
1 packet yeast
1 tsp yeast nutrients
1 pint+ honey
1 cup+ brown sugar
1 pint fresh berries

-pour a quart of cider into a pan, heat to 145F and then transfer to a flask with a stopper/airlock on the counter, allow to rest and come to room temp (overnight).
-bring remaining cider to 145F and transfer 5.5 gallons of the cider to the clean fermenter to return to room temp
-once the cider is room temp, in the morning, pitch the packet of yeast and nutrients into that and set aside on the counter to get going while you're at work for the day
- After work, in a sauce pan or chef's pan on medium low heat, bring the berries and about 1 cup of cider to a simmer, then smoosh and add the cup of brown sugar and honey. simmer until reduced, then add to the fermenter with the cider. This shouldn't change the overall temperature of the cider much
- check temps, measure OG, and if the temps and OG are what you were shooting for, pour in your yeast starter and seal up the fermenter with an airlock.
- One month in primary, then rack to secondary
- One to 6 months in secondary, then keg or bottle. Makes about 5 gallons of finished cider that is dry by the numbers but has a nice honey sweetness on the back end. Suitable for 4.5-8% ciders depending on the natural sweetness of the cider itself and the amount of honey/brown sugar you add.

 

[ten80]

Brewers might "hail" ale yeasts but many cider makers prefer 71B. You might rack based on the gravity and not your calendar - that is to say when the gravity falls to about 1.005 . You might age two to three months and then rack and then allow the cider to age for another 2-3 months. Twelve months aging with 71B generally radically transforms the cider into a far smoother drink (71B transforms about 40% of the malic acid into lactic acid)...

I agree completely, except I don't believe that a secondary is necessary or beneficial

I've never used EC-1118 for cider, but I'm a strong believer that a good cider yeast should impart character and I don't think that 1118 is the right one to use.

I've used Lalemand D47 and 71B with great success. I also use S-04 for quick turn-around ciders. the key with these three yeasts is to ferment slow and COLD. Apple juice has much less flavor to begin with than grape must or beer wort so slow fermentation is essential to avoid "blowing off" the apple flavor. All three of these yeasts will ferment much colder than you might expect! Start low and ramp up to room temp over 2+ months.

D47: Very light fruit esters, final gravity around 1.000, good for aging on yeast 12+ months. Ferments nicely Both will impart a complex character when left to age for 4-13 months. Ferments well at 45 F.

71B: Overall similar to D47, perhaps slightly higher attenuator finishing around 0.998. Will ferment higher starting gravities (e.g. for ice ciders up to 16% alcohol potential or so). Ferments well at 39-43 F.

S-04: Clean, neutral cider yeast that preserves the "fresh crisp apple" flavor. Attenuates around 1.003. Ferments well at 53-57 F. I'd suggest keeping the OG under 1.075 as this yeast is more nutrient-dependent than wine yeasts listed above. I use this yeast to complete quick ciders (2-3 months) for serving on tap.

I don't add any nutrients for any of my ciders because I like to maintain slow fermentations and avoid over-attenuation. I also think that a cider that attenuates to 1.000 or lower over 12 months has an incredible shelf-life when bottle-conditioned because there's almost nothing left to ferment or oxidize. I have 3-year old cider bottled that tastes delicious!

As for the juice, I press my own apples, add sodium metabisulfite (campden tablets) to sanitize the juice (1-2 crushed tablets per gallon based on pH), let the juice sit for 48 hours (to offgass sulfur dioxide), then pitch yeast. I do not heat cider at all because delicate apple flavors are lost. Campden tablets are incredibly effective at sanitizing juice and reducing oxidation of the juice. I've never had an infected batch.

 

[idonteateggs91]

Thanks for the reply. 2 Things:

1. You really only use 1 packet of yeast for six gallons?! A few other people have commented that my ratio of 1 yeast packet to 1 gallon of cider is excessive. Good to know.

2. Surprised you leave it in the secondary for six months. That seems like a long time. Do you find it really helps the cider (as opposed to 2 or 3 weeks in the secondary)

Thanks again

 

[Maylar]

I agree completely, except I don't believe that a secondary is necessary or beneficial

I've never used EC-1118 for cider, but I'm a strong believer that a good cider yeast should impart character and I don't think that 1118 is the right one to use.

Different strokes. I believe that yeast should be neutral and neither add or subtract from the cider. I want my cider to be about the apples, not about the yeast. EC-1118 is clean, neutral, and has very low nitrogen requirements. But as you said, the key is to ferment cold so as not to blow off the subtle flavors and aromatics.

Secondary can have benefits. One, if you rack after the log phase (about 1/2 gravity) you will reduce the yeast biomass and slow the ferment down to a crawl. This is how Claude Jolicoeur ("The New Cider Maker's Handbook") does his ciders. EC-1118 at 50°F for 8 months.

Secondly, I always age my cider at least 4 months and I don't want it on the primary lees that long. Racking lets me forget about the cider for a year before bottling if I want, without worries of picking up yeast flavors.

YMMV, of course.

 

[ten80]

Here's my take... I wish you were closer to AK so we could compare ciders

Different strokes. I believe that yeast should be neutral and neither add or subtract from the cider. What if a yeast can enhance apple flavors?I want my cider to be about the apples, not about the yeast Agreed. EC-1118 is clean, neutral, and has very low nitrogen requirements Ferments below 1.000 in my experience. But as you said, the key is to ferment cold so as not to blow off the subtle flavors and aromatics.Amen!

Secondary can have benefits. One, if you rack after the log phase (about 1/2 gravity) you will reduce the yeast biomass and slow the ferment down to a crawl 42F or so slows yeast, my 47D/71B ciders take 4-5 months to ferment out. This is how Claude Jolicoeur ("The New Cider Maker's Handbook") does his ciders. EC-1118 at 50°F for 8 months.

Secondly, I always age my cider at least 4 months and I don't want it on the primary lees that long. Racking lets me forget about the cider for a year before bottling if I want, without worries of picking up yeast flavors D47 is known for imparting complexity when not racked, I feel this is beneficial and creates complexity without leaving any "off-flavors". My family in Normandy makes barrel-aged ciders that sit on lees for over a year... DELICIOUS!.

YMMV, of course. Ditto. We both have processes that work!

 

[glienhard]

You will find that opinions are like fingers...everyone has many and none are better than the other. That being said, here are my thoughts

First and most important, if your process makes a beverage you like then there is really no need to change it unless you want to tweak it and make something different.

IMHO I strictly stay away, far far away, from any thing other than wine/champagne yeast for cider. I know of people that say they use ale yeast and even bread yeast but I find that these are very inconsistent and cause many off flavors that are not desirable in cider. My go-to yeast for cider is Premier Cuvee because it is a fast, clean, neutral, high alcohol tolerant, sulfur free yeast. I have used many yeast, including everything listed so far, and have found Premier Cuvee to give the best results and leave the most apple flavor.

Backsweetening is another area where just some experiments will be the best to give you the best for your apples. I personally use just simple syrup. I know others that use concentrate and some actually make their own concentrate from the original base cider. If you just want it sweeter, I'd recommend using the simple syrup method but if you wanted more apple flavor then I'd say maybe go with a combo of a little more concentrate and simple syrup.

Good luck with it all. You have a great base to start from!

Cheers!

 

[Wovensummers]

Here's my take... I wish you were closer to AK so we could compare ciders

10-80, I just started my first batch of cider last night. I have brewed partial mash beer in the past, but cider is all new to me. I would love to get together and compare. Feel free to PM me if you don't mind a total newbie.

Jenni

 

[bernardsmith]

Thanks for the reply. 2 Things:

1. You really only use 1 packet of yeast for six gallons?! A few other people have commented that my ratio of 1 yeast packet to 1 gallon of cider is excessive. Good to know.

2. Surprised you leave it in the secondary for six months. That seems like a long time. Do you find it really helps the cider (as opposed to 2 or 3 weeks in the secondary)

Thanks again

Cannot speak to cider but when I make mead - and I make session meads - about the same ABV as a cider - i use 1 pack of yeast per gallon. You really cannot over-pitch yeast as a home brewer but you can under-pitch and under-pitching in fact causes a great deal of off flavors.

Aging cider 9 months to a year radically transforms the flavor. Radically.

 

[glienhard]

1:1 ratio seems very excessive. While yes the risk of over pitching, especially in the cider/wine kind of family, is not as big an issue as it is in beer, a 1:1 ratio would give you the same result as one or two packets (depending on OG). Anything more would just be a waste of money.

On the fermentation temp and aging side, I can speak from my experiences. Using wine/champagne yeast will allow you a much wider temp range. Low and slow is not necessary with these yeasts. That is a misnomer from brewers. I routinely ferment around 80F for all my ciders. Then you only need to let them sit until they are clear (unless you want cloudy cider). Once clear, transfer into the keg then backsweeten then carb. I do anywhere from 20-100+ gallons every year this way with no issues.

Really there is no one correct way to make any fermented beverage. If your process works for you and you like it, keep doing it.

 

[RPh_Guy]

+1 for Premier Cuvee (wine yeast)
I pitch, leave @ 65F for about 4 weeks in primary. Nothing else. Bottle with priming sugar.
Makes delicious semi-sweet tasting cider with great apple flavor. I drink it young.

 

[ten80]

- i use 1 pack of yeast per gallon. You really cannot over-pitch yeast as a home brewer but you can under-pitch and under-pitching in fact causes a great deal of off flavors.

Aging cider 9 months to a year radically transforms the flavor. Radically.

I pitch just one packet of 71B, D47, or S-04 because one packet of yeast is more than sufficient for 5-6 gallons of apple juice at 1.070 or less. The sugars in apple juice are readily fermentable and the limiting factor is really nutrients, not high starting OG and yeast cell numbers. Wine yeasts are good up to about 1.100 OG anyways (with proper nutrients). S-04 is good up to an OG of about 1.090 based on my beer brewing experience.

The drawback I see to high pitch rates is 1) wasted $ 2) too fast/vigorous of a fermentation 3) An excessive yeast cake for long-term aging 4) excessive nutrients released from the yeast, allowing fermentation to go too dry for my tastes (below 1.000).

 

[ten80]

My go-to yeast for cider is Premier Cuvee because it is a fast, clean, neutral, high alcohol tolerant, sulfur free yeast. I have used many yeast, including everything listed so far, and have found Premier Cuvee to give the best results and leave the most apple flavor.

I'm going to have to try a batch with Premiere Cuvee and see for myself as you have piqued my interest!

 

[bernardsmith]

Since the sugars are simple, I assume that every fermentation OUGHT to reach 100 percent attenuation so if you prefer a sweeter cider you should back sweeten and if you prefer a lower ABV cider you should not add any sugar. Apple juice will have a starting gravity of about 1.050 and so a potential ABV of about 6-7%.

 

[homebrewer_99]

There's really not much wrong with your recipe as it is your process. I've made 5 gals almost exactly like yours...with changes.

First off, to backsweeten a champagne you need some potassium sorbate (PS) to kill (not an exact description, but close enough) the yeast. When you add the concentrate w/o the PS it starts fermenting again. It will ferment out those sugars also which, in the end, does not sweeten it. With PS it will.

I also add anywhere between 2-4# of table sugar to up the alcohol. I've gone as high as 7# and 16%, but it really needs to be cut (mixed) to make it more drinkable (except in winter time).

I usually backsweeten with 2-3 cans of concentrate too.

If you're not looking for a thin champagne, I would recommend using Nottingham too. It doesn't ferment out like champagne yeast and leaves you with more body.

FYI: I have a champagne cider (very dry) that's been in the primary for 1 year and a pear mead that's been in a carboy for 3 already. Somewhere (with the other bottles) I have a couple meads that are over 20 years old.

I hope this helps.

 

[jiMithing83]

I make 5 gallon batches of a modified EdWort's, I add some honey to up it to ~10% (vey dry, .998-ish), but the recent change I made of throwing 3 cinnamon sticks, broken in half, in a muslin bag in the fermenter really brought it to a new level. Highly recommend adding the cinnamon.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I make 5 gallon batches of a modified EdWort's, I add some honey to up it to ~10% (vey dry, .998-ish), but the recent change I made of throwing 3 cinnamon sticks, broken in half, in a muslin bag in the fermenter really brought it to a new level. Highly recommend adding the cinnamon.

How long do you leave in the cinnamon?

 

[MarkKF]

I think the key is to ferment long and slow. So if you can temp. control the primary use 1118, D47 or 71b. If not use Notty or S-04. If it's real warm Belle Saison.

 

[glienhard]

First off, to backsweeten a champagne you need some potassium sorbate (PS) to kill (not an exact description, but close enough) the yeast. When you add the concentrate w/o the PS it starts fermenting again. It will ferment out those sugars also which, in the end, does not sweeten it. With PS it will.

homebrewer_99 you are so right on the yeast killing for bottling.

If you are going to bottle and you want the cider still you must kill the yeast. If you are bottling and want a level of sparkling cider then you can't kill all the yeast since they are needed for your desired level of carb. I'm lazy and keg all my cider so I never worry about killing off the last few yeastys. Then I can force carb to what ever level I'm feeling like.

 

[ten80]

Since the sugars are simple, I assume that every fermentation OUGHT to reach 100 percent attenuation so if you prefer a sweeter cider you should back sweeten and if you prefer a lower ABV cider you should not add any sugar. Apple juice will have a starting gravity of about 1.050 and so a potential ABV of about 6-7%.

I agree. Cider fermentations ought to but typically do not quite reach full attenuation unless you are adding nutrients or a really hardy yeast such as EC-1118 or Pasteur Champagne. Avoiding complete dryness (FG below 1.000) is why I avoid using nutrients and ferment cold to keep yeast at a slow fermentation.

I've seen OG of 1.048 to 1.070 for apple juice, it depends largely on the ripeness and variety of apples. Oddly enough, I've hit up to 1.070 with one variety of crabapples. I use blended juices from different apples make for a more average OG of 1.050-1.055.

 

[ten80]

I make 5 gallon batches of a modified EdWort's, I add some honey to up it to ~10% (vey dry, .998-ish)

I've done the same with plain sugar and honey. Honey definitely results in better flavor and more mouthfeel. 3 lbs honey in 5 gallons has worked well for me with D47, ending around 1.001. The honey can add some perceived sweetness and a little body (if it doesn't ferment below 1.001-ish) to help balance juice that is a little high in tannins.

 

[madscientist451]

If you have any tips on improving the process or adding ingredients to improve, let me know. I'd love to make it a little sweeter and give it some more "apple" flavor.

I think you are over-looking something important if you want to improve your cider: What apples are in the blend of juice you are using?
"Sweet Cider" blends for drinking are not always the best for fermenting.
I've made pretty decent fermented cider from sweet cider, and have even used "Simply Apple" from the grocery store.
But if you want to take your cider to the next level, you have to look into getting real cider apples. These are hard to find in most places, but you can find some growers who have some heirloom varieties and you can sometimes find crabapples growing by the roadside or in neighbor's yards.
Don't be afraid to try a wild yeast ferment, they can sometimes come out quite good.
Of course you'll have to figure a way to mash up your apples and get a press to get the juice out, there are all kinds of you tube videos about that.
At the very least, look around your area and see if you can buy a "hard cider blend" from established producers. Also, the sweet cider being sold at the end of the season, like November/December will have different apples than in the early season, so give that a try.
You've already gotten a lot of suggestions about yeast, here are two more: WL 002, ferments down to about .002 same as SO4, I suppose, and Brewers Best Cider House Select does a nice job. I pitch the Brewers Best dry yeast unto a smaller batch and then re-pitch the slurry into larger batches. In fact if you want to be thrifty, you can re-pitch any of the yeasts mentioned in this thread into the next batch. I like to use a nice healthy pitch of yeast, but keep the temp down for a slow fermentation.
I agree with fermenting at low temps and going slow. I wait until middle/late October before I start Cider making so I can use my cool basement for fermenting.
As far as flavor, you can try adding oak cubes for/chips a barrel aged effect.
The most cost effective is to use Jack Daniels brand meat smoking chips from the grocery store. These are chopped up barrels, marketed to use in your grill to smoke ribs and such.
Just soak them in a little whisky or vodka to sanitize and add them to a quart jar with cider. If its too much oak, blend to taste with un-oaked cider.

 

[bernardsmith]

Hi Ten80. I generally use wine yeasts when I ferment any fruit - including apples for cider... and I don't know any wine yeast that has any problem taking the gravity of any apple must down below 1.000. I don't keeve so I don't play with nitrogen levels and so my expectation is that unless I want to deliberately stress the yeast I provide my yeast with as much nutrients as they need/want but keeving tends to use wild yeast and their need for nutrient may be very different from lab cultured yeast.

 

[ten80]

Bernard, I suspect that keeping the fermentation cold and very slow prevents wine yeast from becoming stressed from nutrient limitations, although wine yeasts are generally better suited to nutrient-limited environments than beer yeast, so wine yeast nutrient stress may not even be relevant for cider. I did recently make a cider with Safale T-58 ale yeast that ended up incredibly sulfury and undrinkable due to what I suspect was nutrient stress.

I don't think I've ever had a cider end at an FG below 0.996 using 71B which is known to be a slightly higher attenuator than D47, but I typically end around 1.000-0.998 for either of these yeasts, which is sweet enough for my tastes. My method works well for me!

I'm not certain what the FG of 100% attenuated cider would be as there are many variables due to the range of organic compounds produced and broken down during fermentation.

Theoretically, a pure solution of 6% ethanol in water would have a specific gravity of 0.987, but I don't think I've heard of a cider going below 0.995 FG, and at that point I think the cider might be undrinkably dry.

 

[dirty_martini]

I work for a cidery. Here's some tips from my cidermaker

-If you want more complexity beyond plain apple flavor, you need to find some apples with tannins and acidity to give you more than just sugar. Think of it as the typical apple or juice is a base malt. Tannic/acidic juice from crabapples or other bittersweet/bittersharp apples are your specialty. You can juice up a bunch at harvest and either freeze the juice to use a little for each batch throughout the year or you can ferment it and blend a little post ferment.

-Don't use ale yeasts. Ale yeasts are best at fermenting maltose. What that means is while fermenting fructose, it won't produce any of the chemical compounds that give off esters, phenolics, or aid in mouthfeel. Wine yeasts can create much more flavorful ciders giving off stonefruit or tropical fruit esters that compliment the apples, spicy phenolics, or citrusy acidity. A couple great examples are QA83 (Sauv Blanc yeast) or Rhone 3600 (viognier yeast). Definitely use a little yeast nutrient.

-Ferment cool. 58-61 is a great temp to give you a slower ferment that allows to yeast to do its work and produce all the flavors and compounds it can.

-Don't use sugar. If you want to back sweeten after killing the yeast, use more fresh juice. Sugar only serves to up alcohol and dilute the flavor.

-If you're using more interesting juice and yeasts, you may not need to back sweeten. That's because even at bone dry, there will be components that give the impression of sweetness or body.

 

[ExperimentalBrewer]

. A couple great examples are QA83 (Sauv Blanc yeast) or Rhone 3600 (viognier yeast).

Searching for these yeasts I found QA23 and Rhone 4600. I'll add them to my list of things to try.

 

[dirty_martini]

Searching for these yeasts I found QA23 and Rhone 4600. I'll add them to my list of things to try.

You're right. That was a typo. Rhone 4600 is the yeast. Both are lalvin yeasts