How do conical fermenters work?

[Champurrado]

I see these pricy fermenters on brewing supply web sites and was just wondering, what's the benefit and how do they work?

Thanks.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Expensively by stratically placing a pair of valves on, in, or above the cone.

The cone channel flocced yeast to the bottom valve where the yeast can be dumped thus leaving the remeining beer virtually undisturbed to condition. The second valve is used either as a sample port or a means to rack the beer (although I don;t see the need for the latter).

Temp control is the biggest hurdle with a conical of any size, IMO, lest you can drop the change for a heted and cooled design. $$$$$. I think they are great in concept but not worth the expense and trouble. YOMV.

 

[schweaty]

The yeast all settles to the bottom and you can either drain out the yeast from the very bottom or drain right above the yeast depending on the style you purchase.

 

[RedIrocZ-28]

So... its like a standard fermenter except you can remove the yeast and part of your brew (inadvertently) and then just let it "age" in the primary until bottling/kegging?

Seems a little wasteful to me. But then again, look at my post count. What do I know.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

So... its like a standard fermenter except you can remove the yeast and part of your brew (inadvertently) and then just let it "age" in the primary until bottling/kegging?

Seems a little wasteful to me. But then again, look at my post count. What do I know.

Well there is also the advantage if mounted high enough to eliminate the need for siphoning. And there is also some science in the geometry of the design as well that involves the surface area of the wort vs. the yeast, and the pressure the wort places on the bottom dwellers.

 

[jay4e]

for homebrewers it really doesnt do much other than save a bit of time racking to secondary and cleaning. however in commercial breweries this time savings is big. also in commercial breweries when dealing with large batches yeast autolysis becomes a problem due to the volume and the reuse of yeast. also since they do reuse the yeast they dont want to have to wait till the beer is done fermenting to get the yeast back to work. so being able to remove the yeast is important.

so really in homebrewing its like owning a lexus. its really just an over priced toyota

 

[illnastyimpreza]

for homebrewers it really doesnt do much other than save a bit of time racking to secondary and cleaning. however in commercial breweries this time savings is big. also in commercial breweries when dealing with large batches yeast autolysis becomes a problem due to the volume and the reuse of yeast. also since they do reuse the yeast they dont want to have to wait till the beer is done fermenting to get the yeast back to work. so being able to remove the yeast is important.

so really in homebrewing its like owning a lexus. its really just an over priced toyota

hahaha nice quote.

I didn't even realize that utilizing a conical completely removed the PITA step of transfering to a secondary ! thats awesome.... I will definatly look into it in the future.

BTW, how many times can you re-use the same yeast ? is it necessary to add more each time ?

 

[Champurrado]

Thanks all for the information. So basically, with one of these fermenters, you can (1) recover and save the yeast; (2) avoid having to rack to a secondary and (3) benefit from some gometrical magic.

This begs my next question, and forgive my nattering on, how exactly do you save and recover the yeast for another batch? Do you have to use it immediately? Can you make a starter, like bread and just maintain it until you brew again? Can I scrape the traub up after racking to a secondary now from my ale pail without getting a cone head fermenter?

I have lots of questions. Thanks.

 

[Timekiller]

Check out the "sticky" for yeast washing.... Thats just one option.

 

[Champurrado]

That's a great wicki/sticky

Thanks for the link.

 

[Bob]

Conicals lessen work.

Stainless is easier to clean; it won't scratch like plastic or shatter and cut you to ribbons like glass.

The design eases removal of trub and spent yeast, as others have noted. In commercial breweries, it is common practice to purge trub from the bottom port the day after pitching; after the primary ferment is complete, active yeast may be harvested from the bottom port, and excess yeast purged in the same manner. Thus the need for a secondary, clearing vessel is eliminated. The cone port is used for final racking - in commercial breweries, you suck the beer out of there to the filter, and then to the bright-beer tank. Homebrewers generally rack bright beer from the top port direct to kegs.

In commercial breweries - and in the home breweries of some real gear-heads - conical fermenters are jacketed, cooled with propylene glycol, providing excellent temperature control regardless of the ambient temperature. Most home-based conical users have a seperate fermentation fridge to control the temperature of the ferment. Same effect.

You can make excellent beer with a conical; JZ has at least one from MoreBeer. But just as many brewers make excellent beer with buckets and carboys. For my money, it's a shiny toy. It's not a magic wand to make better beer. I'd love to have a couple jacketed conicals in my home brewery! But I sincerely doubt that'll ever happen.

Bob

 

[mmb]

You can make excellent beer with a conical; JZ has at least one from MoreBeer. But just as many brewers make excellent beer with buckets and carboys. For my money, it's a shiny toy. It's not a magic wand to make better beer. I'd love to have a couple jacketed conicals in my home brewery! But I sincerely doubt that'll ever happen.

Bob

Just a nit to pick, Bob. In a recent show (or not, I'm hitting the archives hard) Jamil mentioned that he's gone back to carboys. Something about getting flack from folks who said he won awards by using all these fancy pieces of equipment or some such BS.

To the OP: People who have conicals seem to love them. People who don't use them manage to live without them. You don't need one to make outstanding beer and I'd rather spend the money on other items for my home brewery that a fermentation vessel.

That being said, if I found a deal on a jacketed 14G conical I'd jump all over it.

 

[Bob]

Nit noted. Didn't know that!

I agree with the rest, 100%.

 

[mmb]

Nit noted. Didn't know that!

I'll try to dig up what show/subject it was. I was surprised when I heard it.

EDIT: Looks to be fairly old information (2006) so maybe he uses conicals now.

I use glass carboys for all batches except when I need to do a 10 gallon batch. Then I use a conical because it holds 10 gallons.

I do not do "secondary" either. Most of the folks describe my process correctly, but it has nothing to do with conicals. I let the beer sit on the yeast until everything fermentation/yeast related is complete. Then the beer gets kegged and carbonated. I don't use a racking cane. I just use a length of tubing and I don't have any trouble getting the beer off the yeast.
Last edited by jamilz on Sat Sep 02, 2006 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=19427#p19427

 

[mlanoue]

I have a 6.5 gallon MiniBrew conical and love the thing, but if you wait too long it can be a pain getting the trub to drop out the bottom.

The trub gets all packed in the bottom and won't loosen up until you turn your back. Then it all comes out, overflowing your container, along with with a pint or two of good beer.

But, I do love being able to take samples and readings from the little valve higher up.

And, it impresses people who don't know anything about brewing.

 

[Bob]

I have a 6.5 gallon MiniBrew conical and love the thing, but if you wait too long it can be a pain getting the trub to drop out the bottom.

The trub gets all packed in the bottom and won't loosen up until you turn your back. Then it all comes out, overflowing your container, along with with a pint or two of good beer.

But, I do love being able to take samples and readings from the little valve higher up.

And, it impresses people who don't know anything about brewing.

Isn't that awesome? Lets you feel like a pro!

If you have trouble with trub clogging the bottom port, don't wait - start purging the day after you pitch. Most all of the trub and break material will settle in 24 hours, and should still be pretty fluid in 36.

Just don't forget to take the airlock off the top! Sucking sanitizer back into the fermenter can be very distressing. When I was a n00b pro, I once sucked a gallon or so of sanitizer from the blowoff back into the 15bbl conical. Boss = not happy.

Bob