How bad does linux suck? (Poll)

[McCall St. Brewer]

Some people just want to jump in a car, turn the key, and drive. Others like to mod the powertrain, add lights and winches, and generally wrench on the thing until the wee hours of the morning.... just for fun. Linux vs Windows is along the same lines.
If you want the ability to get under the hood and tweak the kernel, Linux is your OS. If you want to turn the key and go and forgo the freedom of customization, then Windows is for you.

That's an excellent analogy, but it also illustrates a problem. Taking your analogy a step further, if I want to "turn the key and go" in my car or truck, I have a myriad of choices of brands, models, body styles, colors, options. If the motor vehicle world were like computers I would only have a choice between a Ford or a custom car. There would be no Chevy's or Toyota's or Ferrari's. Either buy a vanilla car from one company or you're on your own with your personal custom vehicle.

I fully understand and appreciate the whole open source, everything is free philosophy behind Linux, and I hope that it can always exist. I think, though, that what many of us who use computers on a daily basis are crying out for is an alternative to Windows. If only someone could put a lot of resources behind a new, commercially distributed OS that would take the best of Linux, but would also be as easy to use and work with as Windows. I think people would buy it.

The biggest advantage of Linux is also its biggest weak point. So many people are working on it, and coming out with so many different flavors of it that no one seems to be able to see and understand the big picture.

 

[bull8042]

VMware works great if you are familiar with linux and want to use it at work while still using windows apps.

VMWare is great, but I use VirtualBox, it's free and seems to be as good as VM for my needs. Plus you don't have to pay $300 for the version that allows you to create an appliance.
Another reason to love Linux, it's FREE!!!!!

 

[98EXL]

No. No, it does not.

I figured as much

 

[jcarson83]

I don't like the way this is turning out. More people need to vote that it sucks.

 

[Tankenator]

Your almost as sensitive as a democrat during a Bush campaign. I did try some simple versions, at the recommendation of my gentoo geek friend, before gentoo. I either couldn't get them to install or ran into other problems along the way. One problem was I couldn't get 3d rendering to work and I wanted to play Enemy Territory.

Said with tongue in cheek, not trying to scare you away...Its just that we in the linux community have had about enough of people selecting advanced things which require much dedication to the learning curve then complaining about how much linux sucks because they cant get the newest advanced shiny widget working (not that compiz aint cool)

KDE 4 is definatly beta, and im wondering if you had your kernel compiled correctly etc for the drive controllers on your machine--this stuff is all configurable and in gentoo it is required for you to know exactly what you have to use it correctly.....

As to your problems with ubuntu--im not sure if you had a bad iso image, a bad burn or some other unknown problem, but i have personally installed ubuntu on at least 7 different formerly windows machines with stunning results....

Feel free to contact me if you have questions on how you can set it up, ill do what i can to help you (better???)

 

[Tankenator]

yessir, I don't think there was that, make this a bootable image, line somewhere, the iso was perfectly fine, and no, I didn't pull the uber-n00b move and burn the iso onto the CD as a file

lol--there on the ftp site where you got the iso is a file called MD5. It has the md5 checksum of the images--i usually get the md5 from another site entirely as they will always be the same just to avoid the issue of a random security breach getting that one contaminated. If you run windows, do a google search for md5 generator for windows, im sure it gets you a program, then you do on the command line "md5 file.iso" you want to check--if the number it gives you is different that that given to you in the file, it is corrupted and you need to rectify that before you burn. Ive had the problem of timed out d/l and corrupted iso's from both windows and linux, not sure if its my isp or perhaps my aging network hardware, but md5 saves the day....

 

[Kevin Dean]

KDE 4 is definatly beta

KDE 4.1 is considered "Stable" by the KDE Devs.

Luckily, KDE proved to me as a project that it sucks. I'm totally happy there's competition and choice, but in the wake of the KDE4 fiasco, I'm quite happy there's Gnome.

If only someone could put a lot of resources behind a new, commercially distributed OS that would take the best of Linux, but would also be as easy to use and work with as Windows. I think people would buy it.

You're essentially describing Mac OS X. It's based on BSD (which is more similar to Linux than Windows 98 is to Windows XP, technically speaking).

When you have choice, you have confusion. When you have a single, unified brand, you have restriction. You hit the nail on the head when you say that Linux's biggest "strength" is also it's biggest "weakness".

Then again, you forget that not everyone cares if Linux is popular or "someone would buy it". I used it because it's a damn good OS, and the people next door using or not using it don't change that one bit for me. Most Linux users who started pre-Ubuntu feel the same way.

 

[anlgp]

I'm triple booting Ubuntu 8.04, SLiTaz Linux & Windows. I love linux more than windows.

 

[Kauai_Kahuna]

I have used linux only at home for over a decade, I still keep the M$ stuff that comes with my system, I boot the system up, download the distro I want, burn it, install linux and never boot up to M$ again until I buy a new system.
UNIX and linux is very user friendly, it's just picky about who it's friends are.

 

[Tankenator]

KDE 4.1 is considered "Stable" by the KDE Devs.

Luckily, KDE proved to me as a project that it sucks. I'm totally happy there's competition and choice, but in the wake of the KDE4 fiasco, I'm quite happy there's Gnome.

I dont understand how people can use that--with all the new widgets its a pain in the ass--but i suppose to each their own. Gnome or WM all the way here...

 

[jcarson83]

Ok, that all it took. I'm going to install VMware on my Vista machine at work and start messing around with it. What distro should I try? I guess I could just use a preconfigured kernel for vmware too.

 

[Mutilated1]

I downloaded YellowDog for my PS3, and damn CD1 wouldn't boot, I'm kinda pissed about it

Thats because you aren't supposed to boot from the CD. Your playstation isn't a PC.

 

[jds]

KDE 4.1 is considered "Stable" by the KDE Devs.

Who were smoking crack when they made that decision. I'm a KDE guy, but I'm sticking with 3.x for a while yet. The KDE devs definition of "stable" and my definition of "I can get work done on this" are pretty different. I installed 4.0 with my first fresh install of kubuntu hardy, and even a few simple configuration changes (like hiding the panel) were still "not available". Downgrade time. KDE 3.5 works great, and is fast and stable on my machine.

So, I'll stick with Kubuntu hardy and KDE 3.5 for a while, until the 4.x mess gets sorted out.

 

[JWHooper]

With my countless Microsoft certifications and the tons of money I have made on the Windows platform over the last 25 years, I feel that I am the most qualified to say that the Suse Linux I installed at home is infinitely superior in almost every regard.

However, all of my kickass games only run on Windows, so .....

 

[enderwig]

Ok, that all it took. I'm going to install VMware on my Vista machine at work and start messing around with it. What distro should I try? I guess I could just use a preconfigured kernel for vmware too.

Can't go wrong with puppy linux. You can install it, though I prefer to use it as a session distro. Boot from the disc or a usb stick, do what you need to do and be on your way. It doesn't have all the biggest newest apps, but that is fine for me for what I use it for. It is my favorite distro for fixing hosed windows boxes, it has a great little gui drive mounter that works flawlessly.
I keep a copy on a usb stick so that I can boot it up with my saved settings, anywhere I am, especially places that only have windows machines available....

 

[Kevin Dean]

I'm going to install VMware on my Vista machine at work and start messing around with it. What distro should I try?

Why are you interested in using Linux? That will affect my answer. Interested in seeing how modular Linux can be (or how small of a system you can run?) try the Debian netinstall and be prepared to "work" (which is part of what I enjoy about Linux - the only things on my system are things I've explicitly installed there). Are you interested in seeing how 'diverse' linux can be, try OpenGEU 8.04.

Want a simple, easy to use distro for basic web browsing, music and stuff... Linux Mint is probably pretty high on my list for people who've not used Linux before.

Interested in seeing how well Linux will treat your hardware if you decided to leave Windows? No distro in VMWare will answer that.

 

[TwoHeadsBrewing]

Ok, that all it took. I'm going to install VMware on my Vista machine at work and start messing around with it. What distro should I try? I guess I could just use a preconfigured kernel for vmware too.

I like Ubuntu...pretty friendly for a beginner, but has enough to keep you interested for quite a while. Plus, it's got some neat eye candy built in. Driver support is pretty good too.

 

[jcarson83]

My main goal at this point is not to leave windows behind but to familiarize myself with it enough to be able to troubleshoot problems. That was the source of my frustration on my first go around. I went from being very familiar with the windows system and being able to work my way out of just about any problem to not know how to install a program at all. I worked my way past most of the basic learning curves (repositories, etc) fairly quickly I think but I was still stuck when it came to major problems. I just didn't even know where to start.

So in all honesty I would agree with some of the other posts that Gentoo was not a good idea and by choosing that distro I was depending on my friend to help me do things when really the whole point of the venture was to do it myself and to understand the system. I didn't learn to use windows by configuring my kernel from the ground up but by slowly learning how simple things worked and progressively working my way into more complex issues.

In the end I guess all I'm asking is that I can build a robot that will run on linux that can brew beer and s**t gold bars. Is that too much to ask. Which distro would I use for that?

 

[user 574]

Doesn't suck but I still hang in the windows world. It's where the cash is as an IT guy.

 

[Tankenator]

My main goal at this point is not to leave windows behind but to familiarize myself with it enough to be able to troubleshoot problems. That was the source of my frustration on my first go around. I went from being very familiar with the windows system and being able to work my way out of just about any problem to not know how to install a program at all. I worked my way past most of the basic learning curves (repositories, etc) fairly quickly I think but I was still stuck when it came to major problems. I just didn't even know where to start.

So in all honesty I would agree with some of the other posts that Gentoo was not a good idea and by choosing that distro I was depending on my friend to help me do things when really the whole point of the venture was to do it myself and to understand the system. I didn't learn to use windows by configuring my kernel from the ground up but by slowly learning how simple things worked and progressively working my way into more complex issues.

In the end I guess all I'm asking is that I can build a robot that will run on linux that can brew beer and s**t gold bars. Is that too much to ask. Which distro would I use for that?

No robots here, but I use ubuntu after 10 or so years of dicking around with other distros (my time is limited, i do like to brew as well as other things) But to each their own. The important thing is to pick one which you can get real support for--asking questions to help you out in a forum for example. Gentoo has this, but unless you have a basis to get to the web for example, you are hosed. Ubuntu has a great forum (almost as good as gentoos), but many others do as well. Stick to it, and realize that *nix operating systems are very different than windows (everything {well almost} viewed as a type of file is just one of many examples) and it will take time for you to get the zen of the system. When you do, stuff will come much more quickly, and you will realize that what you once thought was f'd up and stupid is now the only way that it could be done consistently and logically.

May i suggest as well the downloading of podcasts such as going linux, llts and lotta linux links--they are entertaining and educational, and dave yates (the host of lotta linux links) is very approachable....just search for them (llts is linux link tech show)
Good luck in your search, and remember to have fun along the way, because computers and electronics should be fun, not frustrating....

 

[98EXL]

Thats because you aren't supposed to boot from the CD. Your playstation isn't a PC.

well the PS3 didn't recognize the application loader on it....should have no problem

 

[brauhaus]

i think you should try another Linux based OS, using just one and saying they all suck isn't a fair judgment...

I use Ubuntu at home and love it, I use Windows Vista and other than a few issues, I don't think it's that bad...

All OS have a learning curve, some are worth taking the time to learn, others require more time if you have it...

Try Ubuntu, it's done me well.

 

[jcarson83]

I'm try Kubuntu right now on a virtual machine. Its not that bad just a little tricky to get configured right. It may have been good to try gentoo first since it was really difficult now everything else will seem easy.

 

[Tankenator]

I'm try Kubuntu right now on a virtual machine. Its not that bad just a little tricky to get configured right. It may have been good to try gentoo first since it was really difficult now everything else will seem easy.

What kind of configuration do you need to do? any of the ubuntu derivatives are pretty much plug and play, as far as operation goes. Now if you have to set up the network and such there is a bit of configuration with that, but if you put a windows release on the same machine it would require the same setup. Printers (as long as supported--hp seems best there) are dead easy.

But i dont know if vmware allows usb access so that might be moot

 

[Kevin Dean]

Keep in mind that the virtual machine might change the experince somewhat.

On Ubuntu "proper" Hardy, my HP PSC printers literally install themselves. Even the LiveCD autodetects and configures my printer. A little bubble pops up and says "HP_Deskjet" ready for use!" and that's it.
<sarcasm> It's such a hassel to go to "Administration -> Printing -> Share this printer" when I wanna print from my Debian rig. </sarcasm>

 

[Tankenator]

Keep in mind that the virtual machine might change the experince somewhat.

On Ubuntu "proper" Hardy, my HP PSC printers literally install themselves. Even the LiveCD autodetects and configures my printer. A little bubble pops up and says "HP_Deskjet" ready for use!" and that's it.
<sarcasm> It's such a hassel to go to "Administration -> Printing -> Share this printer" when I wanna print from my Debian rig. </sarcasm>

My experience is very similiar with the cheepie hp from wally world we have here.

My wife was sick of the slowdowns and such with her machine (older 3gig pentium 4 with HT dell with 512meg of ram, generic intel onboard graphics) under windows, along with the spyware and virus' that my stepdaughter, i believe, in her browsing many of the anime sites she likes to frequent gets on to the machine. So i re-sized the windows partition and set up a hardy system on there--wireless was flawless with wicd (due to my purchasing a ralink based card) and the hp printer which only flashed its light under windows (due to unknown corruption of the software under windows) was recognized promptly after plugging it it under ubuntu. I even enabled emerald and ccsm for the eyecandy just for giggles and grins, and it works pretty well--not as well as my nvidia carded machine (and i have turned off the wobbly windows--that slowed the system down and gave tearing of the screen artifacts) but the transparency is there and AWN works like a dream.. She is pretty happy with it, as long as email and web works shes pretty much happy--and i was even able to keep the stepdaughter happy by getting flash working for youtube......

 

[jcarson83]

What kind of configuration do you need to do? any of the ubuntu derivatives are pretty much plug and play, as far as operation goes. Now if you have to set up the network and such there is a bit of configuration with that, but if you put a windows release on the same machine it would require the same setup. Printers (as long as supported--hp seems best there) are dead easy.

But i dont know if vmware allows usb access so that might be moot

Its a little tricky with VMware. First you have to get VMware tools installed and its not in the repositories. There are a bunch of permissions I had to change in order to do this. The auto update didn't work right. It froze ate 92% while updating the SSL. So I had to go in and manually do a apt-get upgrade thing. That fixed it. My mouse wheel didn't work so I had to do in to xorg.conf and fix that with a little tweaking. Its not windows but its fun. I'm not ready to throw my vista in the trash by any stretch but it reminds me of the dos days when I started playing around with computers.

 

[Tankenator]

Its a little tricky with VMware. First you have to get VMware tools installed and its not in the repositories. There are a bunch of permissions I had to change in order to do this. The auto update didn't work right. It froze ate 92% while updating the SSL. So I had to go in and manually do a apt-get upgrade thing. That fixed it. My mouse wheel didn't work so I had to do in to xorg.conf and fix that with a little tweaking. Its not windows but its fun. I'm not ready to throw my vista in the trash by any stretch but it reminds me of the dos days when I started playing around with computers.

Oh i can see this as a problem with vmware, not really one with the distro...But glad you had success with it. It'll grow on ya, and before long youll have a dedicated partition with linux stuff all over it

 

[billtzk]

I've been running Slackware for years, and I love it. Rock solid and easy to customize. I installed Ubuntu on a laptop for a family member, and I had no problems with it, but I prefer the straightforward simplicity and industrial strength and stability of Slackware for my own use. For anyone without Linux or Unix background wanting an easier transition to Linux from another operating system, though, I'd recommend Ubuntu as I think that distro has done a great job of incorporating ease-of-use features, especially when it comes to updating the OS and installing packages. Slackware is more of a nuts-and-bolts system builders distro.

 

[bsay]

Posting from my computer running Ubuntu. Linux is great!

 

[bernerbrau]

That you tried jumping right into Gentoo is your problem, man. Get yourself Ubuntu or Debian; there's plenty for your inner geek to mess around with, without having the amount of hanging-rope that Gentoo will provide.

And for the guy who said it's risky to try to run a business on Linux, my company has been running its core operations on open-source Linux architecture for ten years. We record, compress, track, transcribe, and deliver about 1000 phone calls daily, and our server's uptime is now approaching 800 days.

And best of all, we never had to pay a single cent in licensing.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

I love Linux. My desktop is an Ubuntu machine, and I use it every day. I really enjoy the ease of software development under Linux. Sometimes hardware setup is a PITA, but I'm willing to accept that. The lack of adware/spyware is a big bonus. My latest endeavor was to incorporate a few shell scripts into a php oriented weather page accessed through the Apache server that runs in the background and serves my home network. It takes about 5 minutes (as opposed to a single click) to get the same amount of weather information when accessed through all of the individual sources. Works great for a quick check as I'm running out the door for work. It defaults to my local weather, but I grabbed the weather over HBT's server for the screenshot. Late at night, some of the values get reported as N/A...probably a date issue on the weather.com site.

The screenshot took about 10 seconds to grab and upload thanks to another shell script along with the ImageBot plugin for FF3.

 

[Kevin Dean]

Oh snap, Yuri posted screenshots!



Not much going on in this (obviously "posed") screenshot. In the foreground, BeerSmith. Behind it, Debian Lenny running XFCE inside a KVM Virtual Machine while browsing HBT. Way in the back, Rhythmbox opened for gits and shiggles.

Now I'm tempted to really set up "something nice". Damn you, Yuri!

 

[postman]

I like Linux Ubuntu and Xubuntu. The latest version is so easy to install and remove with the Wubi installer. To remove it, just go to the add/remove program in your windows control panel. I personally think it is more user adjustable. You know and can control every program on there. Just getting started, it does everything you basically need, but delving deeper can reveal some hurdles to get over. Nothing is impossible with it, but somethings need research. Hey, it's free.

Also, every program is free! My two favorite appllication are Gparted for partitioning and clonezilla to clone your present computer onto another. But then again, I'm kind of techy. Just my two thoughts.

 

[98EXL]

I'm on a Fedora box now.....my buddy and I goto DSL running very light on an old machine for the garage this weekend, pretty cool

 

[Kai]

That's an excellent analogy, but it also illustrates a problem. Taking your analogy a step further, if I want to "turn the key and go" in my car or truck, I have a myriad of choices of brands, models, body styles, colors, options. If the motor vehicle world were like computers I would only have a choice between a Ford or a custom car. There would be no Chevy's or Toyota's or Ferrari's. Either buy a vanilla car from one company or you're on your own with your personal custom vehicle.

. . .

I think, though, that what many of us who use computers on a daily basis are crying out for is an alternative to Windows. If only someone could put a lot of resources behind a new, commercially distributed OS that would take the best of Linux, but would also be as easy to use and work with as Windows. I think people would buy it.

Um. OSX? Built on BSD Unix core, able to run many linux-family apps in X11, easily portable, more stable, frankly better and easier human design? You basically just described OS X. You've got to at least include it - your choices are a Ford, a Bimmer, and a custom car.

Obviously it has some of the same problems as Windows (enforced monopolies, exclusivity, lack of co-operation with open-source community), but it's a viable option, and, in my opinion, the obvious choice for people who are dissatisfied with Windows and disinclined to learn linux.

 

[Buford]

Linux can suck just as hard as Windows, but it's come a long way. It's a case of finding the right tool for the job.

I have four PCs at home all running XP (one dual-booting Ubuntu), but I just ordered parts to set up a small headless media server running Ubuntu Server. I just can't see how all the overhead of Windows would be in any way beneficial in that case. I have three routers at home that use Linux; two running Tomato - one as a primary router and the other as a wireless client bridge - and a hardhacked one with a 4GB MMC card using a customized OpenWRT build that I use as a mini file server.

My desktop at work is an ANCIENT install of Red Hat, and it can be a real pain sometimes. The newer server machines I've set up with Debian Etch and Ubuntu Server are a lot easier to deal with. Once you get the basics down it's not hard to use, especially with a modern distro. It's a lot easier now than it used to be, the old distros required a lot of tweaking and futzing with to get them to be even worth using on a desktop PC.

 

[TwoHeadsBrewing]

Are you using WINE to run BeerSmith?

Oh snap, Yuri posted screenshots!



Not much going on in this (obviously "posed") screenshot. In the foreground, BeerSmith. Behind it, Debian Lenny running XFCE inside a KVM Virtual Machine while browsing HBT. Way in the back, Rhythmbox opened for gits and shiggles.

Now I'm tempted to really set up "something nice". Damn you, Yuri!

 

[Kevin Dean]

Are you using WINE to run BeerSmith?

I am indeed. The irony is noted.

 

[bluefoxicy]

How bad does linux suck, or not suck if you wish?

I used gentoo for about a month to six weeks and then just gave up and went back to vista.

Gentoo: start at command line. Determine how to construct the system (desktop environment, compiler optimizations, installed applications). Manually configure your kernel. Manually configure the boot process.

Ubuntu: Put CD in. Play. Click "Install." It automatically resizes Windows' partition to be smaller; installs a boot loader that can still select Windows; installs GNOME and a bunch of requisite applications; and tells you to reboot.

Gentoo is not where you want to start my friend. If you're into that sort of thing Gentoo is awesome, and I've used it. I used to select the folks I wanted to get started on it, because they specifically wanted to do something like that. For everyone else, I hit them with Ubuntu; then there were many in the middle that wanted to do some work but couldn't handle Gentoo immediately, so I sent them on a Debian system (you learn more up front about how a package manager works that way, but that's it).