How bad does linux suck? (Poll)

[Tankenator]

I tried to install a few other distros (ubuntu, arch, kunduntu) with no luck even getting them to install. I have a friend that is a gentoo jedi that was helping me so it only made sense to go that direction.

I'm not sour enough on it to vote worst ever. Its just such a steep learning curve that I'm not interested in messing with it.

What I don't understand is why some people can say its the most stable os when parts of it crash all the time. Sure you can restart KDE from a console but that is still a crash and most people won't bother learning the command and just restart anyway.

You, by using gentoo, are by definition using a distribution which is custom made. This is YOU making the distribution, and YOU configuring it, not someone else. Gentoo has had (in the past, i havent run it in quite a while) issues with squashing configuration files with updates etc. which may produce crashes etc. If you would try with a binary style distribution (debian would be a great example) with good package control I think your issues here would vanish.

All the complaints about the rapidity of movement in the opensource community pretty much disappears when you talk about debian, they are pretty slow to adopt new stuff, and make sure its rock solid before including it in the server version....

Ubuntu and linux mint are just two of modern OS distributions which are based on debian (meaning mostly that they use apt subsystem to conduct package management--dependencies (which are sorta like dll files in windows) are handled automatically)

So to answer your question, it does not suck, you are a minor troll here and you need to try a simpler distribution before you make judgements on the fitness of linux

 

[Tankenator]

I was doing an Ubuntu install...I found guides that used the NDISWrapper to "make it work" but had minimal amounts of luck.

Please note, wireless cards are an issue, but this is NOT the fault of Linux--the manufacturers will not release specs on them, and will not release drivers at all (in the case of broadcom) so linux is reliant on hacks like NDISWrapper to shoehorn windows drivers to make them work.

In a perfect world all would be like ralink and submit the source code for the things (i have a msi wireless pci board on the 2500 chipset and it works brilliantly out of the box)

Additionally, ubuntu made a design decision to have 'network manager' be the wireless selector/controller for the gui. I believe this was a mistake, the better of the gui controllers is wicd--works!!! Try it if you get ndiswrapper working with your card....

Hit me up if you need help, ill do what i can....

 

[Tankenator]

I downloaded YellowDog for my PS3, and damn CD1 wouldn't boot, I'm kinda pissed about it

you md5 the iso image before you burnt it???

 

[98EXL]

you md5 the iso image before you burnt it???

yessir, I don't think there was that, make this a bootable image, line somewhere, the iso was perfectly fine, and no, I didn't pull the uber-n00b move and burn the iso onto the CD as a file

 

[Kevin Dean]

That is some instances, then others, like my laptop. I have about 5 hours invested trying to get the Broadcom wireless card working and can't get it yet.

There's always the "Linux hardware detection sucks" arguement but it usually comes from people who buy off-the-shelf computers pre-installed with Windows. Broadcom is like the LAST Wifi chip maker that refuses to open source their drivers. Even Atheros, which was once only slightly less "evil" to Linux users than Sauron himself, has realized that they're merely alienating their customers by not doing it.

My point - you're using the wrong tools for the wrong job. This isn't your fault, but it's not Linux's either.

I seriously urge people, before complaining about Linux's shortcomings in the hardware arena, install a fresh Windows system from an OEM disk. I have YET to have a Windows install auto-detect and install my sound drivers and my wired network card, let alone auto-detect my screen resolution, get sound working flawlessly, detect and CONFIGURE my wired ethernet and so on.

Computers are tricky summabitches, and comparing a heavily customized install of Windows, suited to your specific hardware, versus Linux autodetecting from a pool of essentially "anything possible" is kind of unfair.

For the record, Mac OS X, which is designed to run only on Macs, installs with less issues on a standard PC than Windows does.

 

[jcarson83]

So to answer your question, it does not suck, you are a minor troll here and you need to try a simpler distribution before you make judgements on the fitness of linux

Your almost as sensitive as a democrat during a Bush campaign. I did try some simple versions, at the recommendation of my gentoo geek friend, before gentoo. I either couldn't get them to install or ran into other problems along the way. One problem was I couldn't get 3d rendering to work and I wanted to play Enemy Territory.

When did yours crash?

Mostly during install from a live cd on the multiple distros I tried. Then after I got it up and running good (actually my friend got it up and running good) KDE would crash every once in awhile after I installed compiz. To be expected I guess since it was really still in beta. Then for some reason it thought my hard drives were going bad. Two identical drives on a raid controller, not using raid, and it was telling me they had the exact same number of bad sectors and they were growing at the same rate. That just doesn't happen. So one day a bunch of stuff just disappears into the black hole of my bad sectors and instead of reinstalling a bunch of packages I just put Vista back on and I haven't had a problem since.

 

[98EXL]

I seriously urge people, before complaining about Linux's shortcomings in the hardware arena, install a fresh Windows system from an OEM disk. I have YET to have a Windows install auto-detect and install my sound drivers and my wired network card, let alone auto-detect my screen resolution, get sound working flawlessly, detect and CONFIGURE my wired ethernet and so on.

So my ultimate unattended DVD that has all of the drivers for all of my crap around the house doesn't count I assume

But you are right though, especially if your hardware is OEM hardware, those drivers can be tricky little whores

 

[bull8042]

I was prepared to lay out a lengthy post, bit it seems as if the major points have already been made. The world nearly runs on Linux in terms of servers, it is brutally stable when properly configured, immune to virii as long as the user doesn't run as root, and can do everything as well as Windows in the hands of a competent user. However, Windows has it's place. It is a wonderful tool for people who may be unable or simply wish NOT to learn a lot of geeky stuff. Never would I install Linux on my parent's computers as the phone calls would be never-ending. However, after much grumbling, the SWMBO took off with it and uses it daily. I never explained "sudo" and so I have limited my problems...hehehe
As far as using the argument of Windows is better because most businesses use it is just wrong. I am forced to use it at work because there just are not any suitable replacements in Linux for Solidworks, AutoCAD, or Promis electrical design software. Linux is more than capable, but the need has to be great enough to encourage someone out there in the open source community to spend the resources required to develope the code.
Some people just want to jump in a car, turn the key, and drive. Others like to mod the powertrain, add lights and winches, and generally wrench on the thing until the wee hours of the morning.... just for fun. Linux vs Windows is along the same lines.
If you want the ability to get under the hood and tweak the kernel, Linux is your OS. If you want to turn the key and go and forgo the freedom of customization, then Windows is for you.
Unfailing stability and security and freedom from virus - Linux
Security vulnerabilities and a bit more prone to breakage, but much easier to just "click and go" - Windows

 

[Kevin Dean]

So my ultimate unattended DVD that has all of the drivers for all of my crap around the house doesn't count I assume

No. No, it does not.

 

[jcarson83]

VMware works great if you are familiar with linux and want to use it at work while still using windows apps.

 

[McCall St. Brewer]

Some people just want to jump in a car, turn the key, and drive. Others like to mod the powertrain, add lights and winches, and generally wrench on the thing until the wee hours of the morning.... just for fun. Linux vs Windows is along the same lines.
If you want the ability to get under the hood and tweak the kernel, Linux is your OS. If you want to turn the key and go and forgo the freedom of customization, then Windows is for you.

That's an excellent analogy, but it also illustrates a problem. Taking your analogy a step further, if I want to "turn the key and go" in my car or truck, I have a myriad of choices of brands, models, body styles, colors, options. If the motor vehicle world were like computers I would only have a choice between a Ford or a custom car. There would be no Chevy's or Toyota's or Ferrari's. Either buy a vanilla car from one company or you're on your own with your personal custom vehicle.

I fully understand and appreciate the whole open source, everything is free philosophy behind Linux, and I hope that it can always exist. I think, though, that what many of us who use computers on a daily basis are crying out for is an alternative to Windows. If only someone could put a lot of resources behind a new, commercially distributed OS that would take the best of Linux, but would also be as easy to use and work with as Windows. I think people would buy it.

The biggest advantage of Linux is also its biggest weak point. So many people are working on it, and coming out with so many different flavors of it that no one seems to be able to see and understand the big picture.

 

[bull8042]

VMware works great if you are familiar with linux and want to use it at work while still using windows apps.

VMWare is great, but I use VirtualBox, it's free and seems to be as good as VM for my needs. Plus you don't have to pay $300 for the version that allows you to create an appliance.
Another reason to love Linux, it's FREE!!!!!

 

[98EXL]

No. No, it does not.

I figured as much

 

[jcarson83]

I don't like the way this is turning out. More people need to vote that it sucks.

 

[Tankenator]

Your almost as sensitive as a democrat during a Bush campaign. I did try some simple versions, at the recommendation of my gentoo geek friend, before gentoo. I either couldn't get them to install or ran into other problems along the way. One problem was I couldn't get 3d rendering to work and I wanted to play Enemy Territory.

Said with tongue in cheek, not trying to scare you away...Its just that we in the linux community have had about enough of people selecting advanced things which require much dedication to the learning curve then complaining about how much linux sucks because they cant get the newest advanced shiny widget working (not that compiz aint cool)

KDE 4 is definatly beta, and im wondering if you had your kernel compiled correctly etc for the drive controllers on your machine--this stuff is all configurable and in gentoo it is required for you to know exactly what you have to use it correctly.....

As to your problems with ubuntu--im not sure if you had a bad iso image, a bad burn or some other unknown problem, but i have personally installed ubuntu on at least 7 different formerly windows machines with stunning results....

Feel free to contact me if you have questions on how you can set it up, ill do what i can to help you (better???)

 

[Tankenator]

yessir, I don't think there was that, make this a bootable image, line somewhere, the iso was perfectly fine, and no, I didn't pull the uber-n00b move and burn the iso onto the CD as a file

lol--there on the ftp site where you got the iso is a file called MD5. It has the md5 checksum of the images--i usually get the md5 from another site entirely as they will always be the same just to avoid the issue of a random security breach getting that one contaminated. If you run windows, do a google search for md5 generator for windows, im sure it gets you a program, then you do on the command line "md5 file.iso" you want to check--if the number it gives you is different that that given to you in the file, it is corrupted and you need to rectify that before you burn. Ive had the problem of timed out d/l and corrupted iso's from both windows and linux, not sure if its my isp or perhaps my aging network hardware, but md5 saves the day....

 

[Kevin Dean]

KDE 4 is definatly beta

KDE 4.1 is considered "Stable" by the KDE Devs.

Luckily, KDE proved to me as a project that it sucks. I'm totally happy there's competition and choice, but in the wake of the KDE4 fiasco, I'm quite happy there's Gnome.

If only someone could put a lot of resources behind a new, commercially distributed OS that would take the best of Linux, but would also be as easy to use and work with as Windows. I think people would buy it.

You're essentially describing Mac OS X. It's based on BSD (which is more similar to Linux than Windows 98 is to Windows XP, technically speaking).

When you have choice, you have confusion. When you have a single, unified brand, you have restriction. You hit the nail on the head when you say that Linux's biggest "strength" is also it's biggest "weakness".

Then again, you forget that not everyone cares if Linux is popular or "someone would buy it". I used it because it's a damn good OS, and the people next door using or not using it don't change that one bit for me. Most Linux users who started pre-Ubuntu feel the same way.

 

[anlgp]

I'm triple booting Ubuntu 8.04, SLiTaz Linux & Windows. I love linux more than windows.

 

[Kauai_Kahuna]

I have used linux only at home for over a decade, I still keep the M$ stuff that comes with my system, I boot the system up, download the distro I want, burn it, install linux and never boot up to M$ again until I buy a new system.
UNIX and linux is very user friendly, it's just picky about who it's friends are.

 

[Tankenator]

KDE 4.1 is considered "Stable" by the KDE Devs.

Luckily, KDE proved to me as a project that it sucks. I'm totally happy there's competition and choice, but in the wake of the KDE4 fiasco, I'm quite happy there's Gnome.

I dont understand how people can use that--with all the new widgets its a pain in the ass--but i suppose to each their own. Gnome or WM all the way here...

 

[jcarson83]

Ok, that all it took. I'm going to install VMware on my Vista machine at work and start messing around with it. What distro should I try? I guess I could just use a preconfigured kernel for vmware too.

 

[Mutilated1]

I downloaded YellowDog for my PS3, and damn CD1 wouldn't boot, I'm kinda pissed about it

Thats because you aren't supposed to boot from the CD. Your playstation isn't a PC.

 

[jds]

KDE 4.1 is considered "Stable" by the KDE Devs.

Who were smoking crack when they made that decision. I'm a KDE guy, but I'm sticking with 3.x for a while yet. The KDE devs definition of "stable" and my definition of "I can get work done on this" are pretty different. I installed 4.0 with my first fresh install of kubuntu hardy, and even a few simple configuration changes (like hiding the panel) were still "not available". Downgrade time. KDE 3.5 works great, and is fast and stable on my machine.

So, I'll stick with Kubuntu hardy and KDE 3.5 for a while, until the 4.x mess gets sorted out.

 

[JWHooper]

With my countless Microsoft certifications and the tons of money I have made on the Windows platform over the last 25 years, I feel that I am the most qualified to say that the Suse Linux I installed at home is infinitely superior in almost every regard.

However, all of my kickass games only run on Windows, so .....

 

[enderwig]

Ok, that all it took. I'm going to install VMware on my Vista machine at work and start messing around with it. What distro should I try? I guess I could just use a preconfigured kernel for vmware too.

Can't go wrong with puppy linux. You can install it, though I prefer to use it as a session distro. Boot from the disc or a usb stick, do what you need to do and be on your way. It doesn't have all the biggest newest apps, but that is fine for me for what I use it for. It is my favorite distro for fixing hosed windows boxes, it has a great little gui drive mounter that works flawlessly.
I keep a copy on a usb stick so that I can boot it up with my saved settings, anywhere I am, especially places that only have windows machines available....

 

[Kevin Dean]

I'm going to install VMware on my Vista machine at work and start messing around with it. What distro should I try?

Why are you interested in using Linux? That will affect my answer. Interested in seeing how modular Linux can be (or how small of a system you can run?) try the Debian netinstall and be prepared to "work" (which is part of what I enjoy about Linux - the only things on my system are things I've explicitly installed there). Are you interested in seeing how 'diverse' linux can be, try OpenGEU 8.04.

Want a simple, easy to use distro for basic web browsing, music and stuff... Linux Mint is probably pretty high on my list for people who've not used Linux before.

Interested in seeing how well Linux will treat your hardware if you decided to leave Windows? No distro in VMWare will answer that.

 

[TwoHeadsBrewing]

Ok, that all it took. I'm going to install VMware on my Vista machine at work and start messing around with it. What distro should I try? I guess I could just use a preconfigured kernel for vmware too.

I like Ubuntu...pretty friendly for a beginner, but has enough to keep you interested for quite a while. Plus, it's got some neat eye candy built in. Driver support is pretty good too.

 

[jcarson83]

My main goal at this point is not to leave windows behind but to familiarize myself with it enough to be able to troubleshoot problems. That was the source of my frustration on my first go around. I went from being very familiar with the windows system and being able to work my way out of just about any problem to not know how to install a program at all. I worked my way past most of the basic learning curves (repositories, etc) fairly quickly I think but I was still stuck when it came to major problems. I just didn't even know where to start.

So in all honesty I would agree with some of the other posts that Gentoo was not a good idea and by choosing that distro I was depending on my friend to help me do things when really the whole point of the venture was to do it myself and to understand the system. I didn't learn to use windows by configuring my kernel from the ground up but by slowly learning how simple things worked and progressively working my way into more complex issues.

In the end I guess all I'm asking is that I can build a robot that will run on linux that can brew beer and s**t gold bars. Is that too much to ask. Which distro would I use for that?

 

[user 574]

Doesn't suck but I still hang in the windows world. It's where the cash is as an IT guy.

 

[Tankenator]

My main goal at this point is not to leave windows behind but to familiarize myself with it enough to be able to troubleshoot problems. That was the source of my frustration on my first go around. I went from being very familiar with the windows system and being able to work my way out of just about any problem to not know how to install a program at all. I worked my way past most of the basic learning curves (repositories, etc) fairly quickly I think but I was still stuck when it came to major problems. I just didn't even know where to start.

So in all honesty I would agree with some of the other posts that Gentoo was not a good idea and by choosing that distro I was depending on my friend to help me do things when really the whole point of the venture was to do it myself and to understand the system. I didn't learn to use windows by configuring my kernel from the ground up but by slowly learning how simple things worked and progressively working my way into more complex issues.

In the end I guess all I'm asking is that I can build a robot that will run on linux that can brew beer and s**t gold bars. Is that too much to ask. Which distro would I use for that?

No robots here, but I use ubuntu after 10 or so years of dicking around with other distros (my time is limited, i do like to brew as well as other things) But to each their own. The important thing is to pick one which you can get real support for--asking questions to help you out in a forum for example. Gentoo has this, but unless you have a basis to get to the web for example, you are hosed. Ubuntu has a great forum (almost as good as gentoos), but many others do as well. Stick to it, and realize that *nix operating systems are very different than windows (everything {well almost} viewed as a type of file is just one of many examples) and it will take time for you to get the zen of the system. When you do, stuff will come much more quickly, and you will realize that what you once thought was f'd up and stupid is now the only way that it could be done consistently and logically.

May i suggest as well the downloading of podcasts such as going linux, llts and lotta linux links--they are entertaining and educational, and dave yates (the host of lotta linux links) is very approachable....just search for them (llts is linux link tech show)
Good luck in your search, and remember to have fun along the way, because computers and electronics should be fun, not frustrating....