I run Debian on all of my computers. My two phones run Openmoko which is a Linux based OS. My fileserver is running Debian and my wife's computer runs Linux Mint (Ubuntu Based). My computer at work runs Debian.
I have my complaints about Linux but all things considered, not Windows, not Mac OS X does it better.
billtzk said:
I am a huge fan of Linux, it just isn't ready for prime time (in the corporate business world).
That's a gross, and I do mean gross, over simplification. This depends entirely on your business's needs. My office uses Microsoft Office and OpenOffice depending on the age of the system. All of the newer systems run OpenOffice because it's developed to a point where shelling out the license fees for Office simply didn't make sense.
Of course, if you depend on some obscure feature of Office, you're locked in. In my company, while Linux is usable for about 99% of everything we do, the designers are bound to Adobe Creative Suite 3 and that 1% means Windows is a must (though, I'm seriously considering Macs).
I would VERY seriously urge people to take a look at their contingency plan in the event they've got a 1% like that. The Linux vs Windows things is pointless in that case, the only think that matters is that SPECIFIC application and the extreme level of power that vendor has over your business.
billtzk said:
Debian stable releases are on average, supported for three years. Ubuntu (supported commercially by Canonical Ltd.) is supported for 5 and Red Hat offers support for 7 I believe. Windows XP didn't get 7 years, so I think that arguement is rendered invalid.
billtzk said:
because most software is supported in a cooperative open-source manner, there is no guarantee that software that a business depends on will continue to work compatibly or even exist in future versions
On a proposal I wrote this month, I cited the same thing (community developed) as the reason to ABANDON some legacy software. My company works on the schedule of MY COMPANY. The fact that Microsoft's or Adobe's decision to abandon a product or break compatibility with previous versions had way too much influence over how we did work.
Apache, MySQL, KDE, Gnome, Linux (the kernel), a huge number of the GNU userspace utilities.. All of these projects have existed over a decade. Companies like Google, Bank of America, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, IBM, Sun and the like contribute, support and in some cases, actively maintain those open source projects. They've got as much support on the business end as most applications.
But here's the kicker. When those companies decide to drop their products, you've still got the source code. That's a really important thing especially if your legacy application was running on something like PowerPC which is (for most realistic purposes) dead on the workstation since Apple dropped it for Intel. If your hardware crapped out, you'd be forced to abandon or port, the latter being much much easier when your business depends on it.
enderwig said:
Maybe starting with a simpler distro than gentoo might not have soured you on linux.
I won't say "simpler" because Gentoo has some great advantages.That said, there are a LOT of great distros, and I really hope that you give some others a chance to meet your needs.
jcarson83 said:
Its just such a steep learning curve that I'm not interested in messing with it.
In fairness, I've done "blind" studies and to someone who doesn't have Windows or Mac experience to pollute them, both KDE and Gnome are easier to grok than Windows (XP, Vista wasn't out when I did the tests). For someone who doesn't KNOW that the little taskbar at the bottom is where the action happens, they'd NEVER guess that the first step to shutting the system down is to click "Start". On my first Linux days, I thought it was bass ackwards that I couldn't install software with a double click but I consider central repos to be perhaps Linux's single biggest strength.
jcarson83 said:
Sure you can restart KDE from a console but that is still a crash and most people won't bother learning the command and just restart anyway.
My experience has been the total opposite, though I've heard stories of horror stories. I've had systems with 9 months uptime (desktop systems) that got restarted only because the power went out and the UPS died. While I've personally never had a hardware issue with Linux (I build all my systems for Linux from the ground up - they suck at running "compatible" Window) I've got a well-versed Linux guru friend who can't seem to make a damn system work without crashing in three days. Windows, Mac OR Linux. I think some people actually ARE cursed by the computer gods.
enderwig said:
my arch install has been running for over a year without any kind of crash, complete or otherwise.
Yes, but Archers put their stuff in /opt and have no standards!
Arch is one of my favorite distros, so that jab was entirely playful.
k1v1116 said:
ubuntu is the most newcomer oriented distro that Ive used
Personally, I think the Ubuntu hype hurts Ubuntu. Speaking ONLY from personal experience, I've never had an Ubuntu install that wasn't three kinds of crap within a week. Be it Samba endlessly querying for Windows nodes that don't exist or kernel panics or failed resumes or uncontrolled CPU from basic rock-stable stuff like ALSA.
I frown when I think about the number of people who hear about how good Ubuntu is, try it, have an experience like mine and then go on missions telling people how bad Linux sucks. Fortunately, I was a Linux user well before Ubuntu came around.
There are certainly other distros I'd recommend for newbs but those specific recommendations would require to know a little bit more about the user. Xandros that's pre-installed on Asus Eee PC for instance is great, but Xandros on a stock PC sucks.
