Hot break

[kl Roosevelt brewer]

Okay you guys when it comes to the hot break at the beginning of the boil am I supposed to skim that off or let it fall back into the boil

 

[Dcpcooks]

I don’t skim it anymore. It certainly won’t hurt to remove the protein scum. When making stock in the kitchen I remove it but I honestly haven’t noticed a difference in my homebrew.

Stone brewing co has a homebrewing book and they suggest you skim it off but that is the only reference I’ve ever seen on the subject.

Edit: I wouldn’t skim after a hop addition

 

[Lefou]

Your choice, I suppose.
I use wheat malt in a lot of my beers and don't bother removing any excess protein foam.
Adding Whirlfloc is an alternative that takes less time and effort.

There are some discussions over flavor stability and clarity regarding protein removal but some of it is really needed for hop oils to bind in order to get that nice foam some people desire, me included.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Oh boy, this is one of those old chestnuts with some people firmly on either side of the divide. What can be said is that :

While skimming has an effect, the effect is small

Those effects tend to be somewhat counterintuitive

Whether you prefer one or the other ultimately comes down to personal taste

So for instance Nakatani et al found that a heavy trub load led to slightly "cleaner" beer in the end with lower levels of isoamyl acetate and ethyl acetate esters. Trub also seems to have a bit of an effect as "finings" that makes the final beer a little bit clearer - see this Brulosophy experiment which had some people unable to tell the difference, and in no agreement which they preferred. It's a very limited sample, but it seems to follow anecdotal evidence. Maybe 25% of homebrewers skim, 75% don't - it's not something to lose sleep over but at some point you might want to do your own experiment to see which you prefer. It's a low priority though if you're starting out.

 

[ancientmariner52]

Let it go. You are right about removing hops too soon, don't want to do that. With the gear you describe it would be too much trouble.

 

[kl Roosevelt brewer]

So you're suggesting I scratched the whole straining idea? What is that going to do to my yeast cake in the end if I want to save my yeast?

 

[ancientmariner52]

So you're suggesting I scratched the whole straining idea? What is that going to do to my yeast cake in the end if I want to save my yeast?

Yes, at this point. You can still harvest the yeast, but that's a whole 'nother topic, and I think they want to keep things compartmentalized. Search for yeast harvesting and you'll find good info.

 

[kl Roosevelt brewer]

Yeah I noticed that thanks. I'm just trying to ask all the right questions before I pull the trigger and start this batch.

 

[ancientmariner52]

Yeah I noticed that thanks. I'm just trying to ask all the right questions before I pull the trigger and start this batch.

I understand. I like to let the conversation flow naturally, but I understand why that makes it hard to keep things organized.

Edit: keep asking questions, we'll find a way to answer somehow or other.

 

[Dcpcooks]

Skimming is way down on the list of thing to fret about..if you want to harvest yeast you may want to consider building a starter and harvesting that yeast rather than harvesting after fermentation. You’ll have no trub or hops to deal with and contamination risks are also reduced.

 

[Smellyglove]

I skim the coagulated proteins as I often top crop my yeast and I'm to lazy to do a dirt skim, so I don't have to do a dirt skim, or wash yeast if I bottom crop. The break is only one piece of the mud, but I try to not get any gunk or trub into my FV since I can't dump it like in a conical.

 

[IslandLizard]

Skimming is way down on the list of thing to fret about..if you want to harvest yeast you may want to consider building a starter and harvesting that yeast rather than harvesting after fermentation. You’ll have no trub or hops to deal with and contamination risks are also reduced.

Hot break in an extract boil is quite minimal, the largest amount of trub comes from a) hops, if not contained, and b) cold break.

On a side note. Overbuilt starters are definitely a good way to keep a good fresh and clean yeast supply. But the OP is using dry yeast, so starters are kinda moot at this point. We perhaps should visit the yeast handling options in another thread.

For the record I don't skim hot break, even with the largest wheat loads. It's just not worth the bother. It all ends up with the other trub on the bottom of the kettle, after chilling, anyway.

 

[Smellyglove]

Overbuilt starters are def a good way to have a yeast supply. The only aber I have against that is that you lose the effects of letting the yeast go through generations, but this is also up to what kind of beer you're brewing.

 

[IslandLizard]

Yes, at this point. You can still harvest the yeast, but that's a whole 'nother topic, and I think they want to keep things compartmentalized. Search for yeast harvesting and you'll find good info.

Thanks for both suggestions!
Let's keep yeast handling in a separate discussion, if there's a need for it. Keeps things cleaner here.

Although I doubt anything new gets added that hasn't been discussed before in numerous threads, it will be helpful, not just for the OP, to get the various options of each topic under their own heading.

 

[kl Roosevelt brewer]

Amazon brings me Palmer's book the fourth edition on Tuesday and I will read it and then hit you guys up with more questions before I do my first Brew have a great week

 

[NGD]

As an extract brewer I only skim depending on the style. I’m pretty sure it has no effect either way at the home brewing level and many would agree. I find that proper use of finings and trying to achieve a good cold break is more beneficial.

Long story short...don’t worry about it. Play around once you have a batch or two under your belt and form your own opinion. Then come back here and tell the newbies why or why-not they need to skim.

 

[kl Roosevelt brewer]

I have no idea what the cold break is or what it looks like or what to expect or even what causes it yet. I have been catching Snippets of it in conversations but nobody really has explained it or the chemistry behind it. I got Palmer's 4th edition book headed this way and from what I hear that should answer most of my questions. Obviously the cold break is caused buy some processes and chemistry and I want to find out what it is

 

[Smellyglove]

I have no idea what the cold break is or what it looks like or what to expect or even what causes it yet. I have been catching Snippets of it in conversations but nobody really has explained it or the chemistry behind it. I got Palmer's 4th edition book headed this way and from what I hear that should answer most of my questions. Obviously the cold break is caused buy some processes and chemistry and I want to find out what it is

It's stuff which coagulates when cooled down quickly, like eggdrop soup. Google the term and go for pictures. If you have a good cooler it sort of just says schwooooop and your wort is clear like the day but filled with "chunks". This cold break is pretty fragile, just simple agitation breaks it up (some of it), so if you're using a pump to circulate while cooling the wort will look like haze, but it will all settle out if you wait long enough.

 

[kl Roosevelt brewer]

And I am assuming this is something we do not want in the fermenter

 

[kl Roosevelt brewer]

There should be a whole lot more to the IPA clone kit instruction sheet that comes with the box of ingredients. For somebody who just got a wild hair and decided hey I want to make some beer and bought this kit and followed the instructions on it could end up with a disaster possibly even physically hurt! Step one fill Kettle with 3 gallons of water and heat to 155 degrees. Step two add contents of grain bag to the steeping bag and steep for 60 minutes then remove grain bag. Step 3 bring to boil and remove from Heat. Step 4 add dry and liquid extract to Kettle stir well bring to a boil boil time is 75 minutes. Step 5 add hop bag number one to Kettle 60 Minutes to end of boil. Step 6 add hop bag number 2 to the kettle 0 minutes to end of boil step 7 add cold water as necessary to achieve 5 gallons and to cool the Wort to fermentation temperature. Step 8 take a specific gravity reading. Step 9 pour one third of the Wort in to sanitize carboy. Step 10 add enclosed yeast package to the carboy top up with remaining wart and cold water to make five and a half gallons. Step 11 Place sanitize rubber stopper and airlock and let it sit at room temperature. So there you go what do you think? The first thing I see is a great big huge boil over going on. That's the full instruction right there no precautionary or hey you better watch out for this even mentioned that's why I'm so glad to have found you guys before I start my first batch

 

[Smellyglove]

And I am assuming this is something we do not want in the fermenter

Some people say some trub is good, or " it will settle out". I'm in the opposite camp. So it depends on who you ask. Also, those with conicals can dump it out, so they probably would care less about carryover than me who can't dump it.

 

[portguy]

I guess that skimming the hot break will remove a very small percentage of the total , thus making it not worth doing it.

 

[Smellyglove]

I guess that skimming the hot break will remove a very small percentage of the total , thus making it not worth doing it.

It's all about the total. If you omit to do certain small details here and there, the accumulation of the things you omitted can be big enough to alter the beer.

In traditional norwegian farmhouse-brewing I believe they called the coagulated gunk the "hodeverk", or something, translated to english it's something like headache, I think the germans also has their own word for it. But if it's true, I don't know.

 

[portguy]

It's all about the total. If you omit to do certain small details here and there, the accumulation of the things you omitted can be big enough to alter the beer.

In traditional norwegian farmhouse-brewing I believe they called the coagulated gunk the "hodeverk", or something, translated to english it's something like headache, I think the germans also has their own word for it. But if it's true, I don't know.

I think it's a matter of opportunity. I don't bother with the hot break in the sense that i don't skim it. But i use Irish Moss and try to leave the most i can outside the fermenter. But a brewer i strongly admire (David Heath, he lives in Norway btw!) always stirs the hot break in and even strongly advises to do it.

 

[ProblemChild]

Never noticed a difference. Started brewing with skimming as part of my process. I quit and noticed very little difference in the end product (if any at all) - however, I did notice that I did less work......

 

[Smellyglove]

Just to make things clear from my last post. I don't advise to do this or do that. But I myself don't want the coagulated break material in my beer, I have no evidence it's good to try to keep it all out, or evidence it's good to keep it in, but that's how I brew. I just feel the beers end up cleaner, that's why I do it they way I do. And I harvest yeast. So when I said it's all about the total I meant it in general, a little here and a little there accumulates, seen from your own standpoint about what is yes and what is no.

 

[kl Roosevelt brewer]

Did you notice in those recipe instructions it looks like they put one third of the wart in the fermenter and then pitch the yeast. I plan on double pitching us 05 just sprinkled on the top after I hit it with my Aviation oxygen what do you think

 

[NGD]

Perhaps I missed this, but do you have a diffusion stone? If not I highly recommend one.

I’ve actually not seen instructions saying to put 1/3 wort in then pitch. I imagine its to throughly mix the yeast. Theres some discussion about pitching dry yeast onto foam and its efficacy. I’ve never seen a really well written set of kit instructions. Eventually you’ll figure out your own techniques.

I went from being overly intimidated to thinking of it in more basic terms. It also helps to write down your brew day prior to the process. One thing about brewing, if your like me and tend to overthink things then theres plenty to keep you busy.

 

[kl Roosevelt brewer]

Yes I do I have a .5 Micron Stone and I got it hooked up to a 20 lb canister of Aviation oxygen with a regulator I can regulate down to 3 lb of pressure. I can make really super tiny bubbles or I can make a volcano. It seems to work really well with the wine and Mead I make. I also have a Twist on and off valve that helps me regulate the pressure also

 

[ancientmariner52]

There should be a whole lot more to the IPA clone kit instruction sheet that comes with the box of ingredients. For somebody who just got a wild hair and decided hey I want to make some beer and bought this kit and followed the instructions on it could end up with a disaster possibly even physically hurt! Step one fill Kettle with 3 gallons of water and heat to 155 degrees. Step two add contents of grain bag to the steeping bag and steep for 60 minutes then remove grain bag. Step 3 bring to boil and remove from Heat. Step 4 add dry and liquid extract to Kettle stir well bring to a boil boil time is 75 minutes. Step 5 add hop bag number one to Kettle 60 Minutes to end of boil. Step 6 add hop bag number 2 to the kettle 0 minutes to end of boil step 7 add cold water as necessary to achieve 5 gallons and to cool the Wort to fermentation temperature. Step 8 take a specific gravity reading. Step 9 pour one third of the Wort in to sanitize carboy. Step 10 add enclosed yeast package to the carboy top up with remaining wart and cold water to make five and a half gallons. Step 11 Place sanitize rubber stopper and airlock and let it sit at room temperature. So there you go what do you think? The first thing I see is a great big huge boil over going on. That's the full instruction right there no precautionary or hey you better watch out for this even mentioned that's why I'm so glad to have found you guys before I start my first batch

Barring the lack of safety info, those instructions will give you a reasonably good batch of beer. All this other stuff we go on about are details and refinements leading to ever better and better beer. It's easy to get overwhelmed with details and fine distinctions. We all started where you are now. Except me. I didn't even know enough to ask questions. You're gonna do just fine.