Hopstand Post-Chill Pre-Fermentation

[squaremile]

Today I got some inspiration to do a hopstand after wort is chilled to 100 degrees, for maybe even several hours (I usually let it cool down naturally after I get it to 100). The only thing I'm thinking is an issue is some risk of infection from the hops themselves. Any other drawbacks or considerations? Anyone ever try this?

 

[m00ps]

A lot of people let their beer cool overnight with the hops sitting in the wort. As long as its closed up, it should be fine. There arent really any spoilage organisms that live on hops. If there were, you wouldnt be able to dry hop

 

[squaremile]

Thats what I was thinking. However, the difference here is that hops from normal hopstands are initially put in at temps that kill any bad guys on there, or in the vessel that is holding them. The one I'm suggesting is throwing them in after that cooling and possible pasteurization happens.

 

[WBCo]

And m00ps is referring to DRY hopping which happens at room temp days/weeks after the brew day. Any possible infection at this stage most likely wouldn't be from the hops.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

One thing about warmer hop stands in the 170-190F range to keep in mind. The hotter temps help dissolve the oils by making them more liquid. Throwing a piece of butter in room temp vs. body temperature bowl of water, room temp the butter stays relatively solid, body temp water the butter starts to melt.

Without the advantage of temperature you may see diminishing returns on a 100F hop stand, you would have to rely on getting more mechanical means of washing off and dissolving the hop oils. A very intense whirlpool could help wash and strip the hops of the oils.

Dry hops have a chemical advantage due to the alcohol in the beer and the lower pH helps with preventing infection. The alcohol also helps extract flavor from the hops. I feel like a "cold" hop stand could give a chance for a piece of dust sticking to the hops to infect your beer, 100f is a BIG danger zone for bacteria since they like the warmer temps (they survive and multiply in the normal ferment ranges, but they LOVE then higher temps). The cold hop stand lacks the advantages of dry hopping and "hot" hop stands, or if it does have an advantage it's a very very tiny one.

It's probably worth a try but it may not be any better than a 170f chill then hop stand.

 

[ncbrewer]

Brulosophy just did an exbeeriment comparing a 170F hop stand to a 212F hop stand - pretty much found no difference. http://brulosophy.com/2016/02/01/the-hop-stand-hot-vs-chilled-wort-exbeeriment-results/
This makes me skeptical about the merits of a 100F hop stand. But definitely to each his own.

 

[squaremile]

That exBeeriment actually is what made me wonder. Like maybe the temps for some oils we lose are gone even at 170.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

That exBeeriment actually is what made me wonder. Like maybe the temps for some oils we lose are gone even at 170.

170 is a good temperature though since its still in pasteurizing temps so if any sneaky little bits of dust get stuck to the hops and something is living on that dust it should still die. Wort at 100F, even a highly hopped beer, is a wonderland for bacteria. Those that no-chill are usually leaving it in a sealed container till pitching time, they're not opening it and putting more stuff in the beer when it's in the danger zone.

Though definitely it's worth a try, I would bet though that you wouldn't see a significant change.

 

[joshesmusica]

Though definitely it's worth a try, I would bet though that you wouldn't see a significant change.

I would be the same, if it was done brulosophy exbeeriment style. If the OP really wants this to make a difference, I would bet that he will perceive a difference.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

I would be the same, if it was done brulosophy exbeeriment style. If the OP really wants this to make a difference, I would bet that he will perceive a difference.

That's true. When I started the 170-190F whirlpool/hopstand technique I was SURE my IPAs were smoother and more aromatic/flavorful. More than likely when I started I did t have a great grasp of whirlpool utilization and the range of isomerization temps, also to make a great IPA you can never go wrong with throwing more late hops at it (and I stopped sucking at brewing).

 

[squaremile]

Interesting points, leaning against. Was thinking some oils are burning off even at 170, gonna rethink. And I'm not looking for "better" per se, but faster. If I can get the same thing with this technique, then why wait for the 30m hopstand, just throw them in while chilling and save more time.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

Interesting points, leaning against. Was thinking some oils are burning off even at 170, gonna rethink. And I'm not looking for "better" per se, but faster. If I can get the same thing with this technique, then why wait for the 30m hopstand, just throw them in while chilling and save more time.

That slightly changes things then. For example throw the hopstand hops in and let the beer keep chilling to pitch temps, say as soon as it hits 150-160F and let it keep chilling. That is essentially what I do, start my immersion chilled after the 10-15 minutes it takes to get it inside and downstairs then immediately throw in my HS/WP hops, I am probably at 200F already, and I let my IC run for most if not all of the hopstand/whirlpool timeframe.

Chilling to 100F then throwing in hops is a slightly different beast than starting your chilled of choice then tossing in HS/WP hops.