Hoppy Saison - thoughts

[ReformedBrewer]

Hoppy French saison

All Grain Recipe
Batch Size: 5.50 galStyle: Saison ()
Boil Size: 8.00 galStyle Guide: BJCP 2008
Color: 3.6 SRMEquipment: Tanner - All Grain
Bitterness: 32.3 IBUsBoil Time: 90 min
Est OG: 1.059 (14.5° P)Mash Profile: Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out
Est FG: 1.005 SG (1.2° P)Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage
ABV: 7.2%

Ingredients:
AmountNameType#
9 lbsPilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM)Grain1
2 lbsWheat, Torrified (1.7 SRM)Grain2
1 lbsSugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM)Grain

Additions:
1.0 ozSaaz [4.0%] - Boil 60 minHops4
2.0 ozSaaz [4.0%] - Boil 20 minHops5
1.0 ozSaaz [4.0%] - Boil 10 minHops6
1.0 ozSaaz [4.0%] - Boil 0 minHops7
1 pkgsFrench Saison (Wyeast Labs #3711)Yeast (w/ starter)

Thoughts? I am wondering if i should cut down on the OG. My only concern is that I want the maltiness to be balanced with the higher than normal saison IBU? Any suggestions are welcome. I am also considering setting a gallon aside to pitch some Brett into.



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[Beernik]

I think the OG : BU ratio is fine.

However, maltiness isn't a word I normally associate with Saison. They all tend to run pretty dry.

 

[ReformedBrewer]

I think the OG : BU ratio is fine.

However, maltiness isn't a word I normally associate with Saison. They all tend to run pretty dry.

Yeah, you're right. I don't know why I chose to use that word. What I really meant to say was is that I want the beer to be balanced. Obviously the yeast will do most of the flavoring but I also don't want it to taste like water soaked in hops. Would you recommend adding any munich malt or would that only contribute to color?

 

[sudbuster]

Hoppy French saison

Thoughts? I am wondering if i should cut down on the OG. My only concern is that I want the maltiness to be balanced with the higher than normal saison IBU? Any suggestions are welcome. I am also considering setting a gallon aside to pitch some Brett into.

Saison is one of my favorite beers, but there is no such thing as "normal". The style is pretty much wide open. Although wheat is not used in most modern commercial recipes, any number of grains and malts were used on the farm breweries. To me your recipe looks good. I would not lower the ABV unless you are after a more authentic ABV of about 3.5%. Good brewing to you. Cheers.

 

[insanim8er]

Like sodbusters was saying, Historically Saisons were brewed for farmers to drink when water wasn't safe to drink, so it started at a low ABV and evolved to a higher ABV over the years. The style almost died when farmers stopped brewing it.

Since each farm house made their own version, for the sole purpose of keeping the farmers working during the summer heat, they didn't share enough characteristics to be classified as a particular "style" so it was basically grouped as a summer beer made by farmers.

With that said, I think 3711 is a great choice. I don't see it as a "hoppy" saison though. You're in range with the ibu. The style is up to 45ibu. I noticed you have kind of a lot of wheat, but roll with it. I personally like the addition of honey vs table sugar. I feel the wild flower raw honey I used added a little funkiness to it, but orange blossom adds some citrus.

I just did a variation of the cottage house saison on here.

I got awesome results with the 3711 starting at 68 for a couple days then ramping it up 2f each day until it was at 77. Then I let it ride until it was 2weeks total then another 2wk at room temp. I also used EKG. It came out very good. I finished at 1.002. It got great reviews, but no one had tried a saison before. Some where taken aback by it because it was very complex and flavorful.

Good luck.

 

[ReformedBrewer]

Like sodbusters was saying, Historically Saisons were brewed for farmers to drink when water wasn't safe to drink, so it started at a low ABV and evolved to a higher ABV over the years. The style almost died when farmers stopped brewing it.

Since each farm house made their own version, for the sole purpose of keeping the farmers working during the summer heat, they didn't share enough characteristics to be classified as a particular "style" so it was basically grouped as a summer beer made by farmers.

With that said, I think 3711 is a great choice. I don't see it as a "hoppy" saison though. You're in range with the ibu. The style is up to 45ibu. I noticed you have kind of a lot of wheat, but roll with it. I personally like the addition of honey vs table sugar. I feel the wild flower raw honey I used added a little funkiness to it, but orange blossom adds some citrus.

I just did a variation of the cottage house saison on here.

I got awesome results with the 3711 starting at 68 for a couple days then ramping it up 2f each day until it was at 77. Then I let it ride until it was 2weeks total then another 2wk at room temp. I also used EKG. It came out very good. I finished at 1.002. It got great reviews, but no one had tried a saison before. Some where taken aback by it because it was very complex and flavorful.

Good luck.

First of all, thank you so much for the feedback!

In regards to the amount of wheat I have, it's just a little over 15% which is what I was told was good for the style (Belgium pils, wheat 15%, and sugar 10%). Was that incorrect advice or again is it just a no rules kind of thing. I am still very new at this and my understanding was that the wheat was just going to give the really nice head retention that many saisons have.

 

[insanim8er]

Ya it's fine some saisons use wheat, but not all. Also the sugar gives an alcohol boost while maintaining a thin body overall helping with the dryness.

I like to use honey because I think it adds another level of complexity vs table sugar. That's just me. Sugar would make it a less expensive beer.

 

[troy2000]

Good discussion. This sort of thread is why I joined HBT...

If you don't want to spring for the honey, it takes about twenty minutes, a frying pan, a little lemon juice and a pound of table sugar to create enough Belgian candi for a five-gallon batch.... depending on how much flavor you want, you can caramelize it to whatever level desired just by adjusting the cooking time.

That's what I use in my Belgian saisons, cooked to a light amber for just a hint of flavor and color.

This is where I learned to do it. The instructions are simple, orderly and clear - even though the blogger is an engineer. Strange; in my experience you hire an engineer when you want to complicate and obfuscate things, rather than simplify them....

http://joshthebrewmaster.wordpress.com/2010/11/27/how-to-make-belgian-candi-sugar/

 

[ReformedBrewer]

Ya it's fine some saisons use wheat, but not all. Also the sugar gives an alcohol boost while maintaining a thin body overall helping with the dryness.

I like to use honey because I think it adds another level of complexity vs table sugar. That's just me. Sugar would make it a less expensive beer.

Yeah! I bet honey would be awesome and the funk you are saying it would impart would be a great addition. Unfortunately, I am tapped out on my brewing budget for this recipe so I'll go with the sugar this time but will definitely try the honey next time.

I also plan to set aside a gallon into a secondary when I bottle to lightly dry hop and pitch some brett dreg into. I really want to experiment with a hoppy funked up saison but don't want to ruin 5 gallons when I most likely screw it up. I am basically going for a saint somewhere/prairie artisan ale kinda thing.

 

[rhys333]

I'm mulling the idea of brewing a hoppy saison today. Six gallons, lower 4.5% abv and all cascade hops as I have a pound sitting around that needs using up. Something like:

75% 2 Row
15% Munich 10
10% Rye
Cascade @ 60 (adjustment for ~30 total ibus)
2 oz Cascade @ 10 & 1
WY 3724

I might replace the Munich with a smaller amount of aromatic, but haven't decided. Or maybe Victory. Any ideas on these or alternative character malts?