Hop Heads - Please help with my first Black IPA!

[TheOrlandoGuy]

Hello! As the title said - this is my first attempt at a black IPA. I caught the bug after trying Abita "Imperator" for the first time, and holy cow am I impressed. Traditionally I stay on the maltier side of things - but I couldn't help but just appreciate how balanced and smooth this black IPA was.

So, I'll actually be trying to somewhat clone it as best I can.

Here's what Abita says:
"Abita Imperator is a robust, black IPA brewed with pale, caramel, chocolate and black malts. It commands your attention with an intense hop flavor and aroma provided by Apollo, Cascade, Centennial, Citra, Mosaic and Amarillo hops."

Beer profile provided by Abita:
ABV - 8%
IBU - 90
Color - 55 Lovibond

And here's what I have so far (Partial mash with extract) -

**I substituted Apollo with Magnum as my primary bittering hop**

Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 4 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.102
Efficiency: 85% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.082
Final Gravity: 1.023
ABV (standard): 7.72%
IBU (tinseth): 81.29
SRM (morey): 40

FERMENTABLES:
9 lb - Liquid Malt Extract - Light (73.5%)
1 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (8.2%)
1 lb - German - Carafa II (8.2%)
0.25 lb - American - Chocolate (2%)
1 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 60L (8.2%)

HOPS:
1 oz - Magnum, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 35.67
0.5 oz - Centennial, Type: Pellet, AA: 10, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 11.89
1 oz - Amarillo, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.6, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 15.72
1 oz - Cascade, Type: Pellet, AA: 7, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 12.79
1 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 5.21

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 152 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 4 qt

YEAST:
Fermentis / Safale - American Ale Yeast US-05
Starter: Yes

Please critique and feel free to tear it apart!

Thanks!

 

[Beer-lord]

I have no idea about the recipe for Imperator (I live in NOLA so I've had this on draft and it's much better than the bottles), but, Apollo is earthy and Magnum is clean so I'm not sure if that's a good substitute.
Though the folks I knew at Abita are gone, you might have some luck emailing the brewery and asking if they'll give you some direction. You might get lucky.

 

[m00ps]

I've made loads of black IPAs and here;s my advice:

Personally, I'd take out the crystal malts. Generally you want to limit the crystal in IPAs (or take out entirely) because the sweetness tends to clash with the hops. This is especially important in Black IPAs in my experience because you have the slight roastiness from your darkening malt. If you add crystal to the mix, ti comes off as a hoppy stout.

I'd also add some sugar (0.5-1lb) to help dry the body out. I add sugar to all my IPAs to help the hops shine. With black IPAs I add even more. The goal is to get something that's black, but completely opposite a stout or porter. So a thin body is the goal.

You may need a bit more carafa II to get it completely black. I usually need 1lb of carafa III to achieve this. But I prefer midnight wheat or blackprinz since they are less roasty. Either way, try to do a quick mashout at ~170F in your steeping to extract all the color you can.

The hop bill seems fine. You wont notice any difference subbing apollo for magnum with just the bittering addition. I'd recommend doing a hop stand at flameout for maximum hop character. If you want another recipe for reference, here's my black IPA I posted. I tend much more towards late hop additions to maximize my hop flavor and aroma without a ton of bitterness. But its all personal taste. I like my IPAs to have a hop flavor that punches you in the face, but doesnt leave a lingering jaw clenching bitterness so you come back for more
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/ninja-nelson-black-ipa-507777/

 

[TheOrlandoGuy]

I've made loads of black IPAs and here;s my advice:

Personally, I'd take out the crystal malts. Generally you want to limit the crystal in IPAs (or take out entirely) because the sweetness tends to clash with the hops. This is especially important in Black IPAs in my experience because you have the slight roastiness from your darkening malt. If you add crystal to the mix, ti comes off as a hoppy stout.


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/ninja-nelson-black-ipa-507777/

Yes, there seems to be a fine line between a hoppy porter, and a black IPA - the main reason I included this in the grain bill was because Abita did as well.

Imperator wasn't roasted at all...just a nice smooth maltiness (caramel, yes) to counteract the bitterness. I actually LOVED the fact that it wasn't a hop bomb either. Great amounts of flavoring and aroma hops. If I did citra @ 5 mins, which hop(s) would you recommend for a hop stand? Dry hop?

 

[m00ps]

Citra pairs with just about every big aroma hop in my experience. You can tend to its citrus side with Cascade, Centennial, Amarillo, Simcoe, Chinook, etc. or go towards the tropical side with Mosaic, Galaxy, Pacific Gem, Pacific Jade, Equinox, Motueka...My first black IPA was galaxy and citra and it turned out decent enough to send me on quest to find the perfect combination for my tastes.

My one word of advice would be to avoid the danker hops with Black IPAs. Something about the roasty flavors with hops like columbus seems to bring out a weird funk for me that I dont particularly enjoy.

But if you aren;t looking to make a bitter hop bomb, I'd shift you additions more towards the latter end of the boil. Personally, I'll just do one 60min addition, and the rest at flameout for a massive hopstand. Sometimes Ill do like a 15min addition if I want a bit of bite, but I've cut out stuff like 30 min additions for IPAs cause they dont seem to add any appreciable flavor. I'd rather use those hops later to preserve the flavor, or just a small amount earlier for bittering

 

[TheOrlandoGuy]

Thank you for the insight, and very good advice! I'll definitely dry hop with 1oz Citra and 1oz. Cascade...what would you recommend as a "huge hop stand?" 1oz. of each? I do love citra, maybe a blend of Citra mainly...and half ounces of the others?

My big question is: how the heck do they claim to have a 90 IBU profile, but somehow doesn't blow my mouth up with hops? I know it has to counter act the sweetness from the malt, but if im shifting my hop additions to the later side of the boil, I wont be able to get anywhere close to 90 IBUs, right?

 

[m00ps]

Yeah I'm with you on the confusion on IBUs. I don;t really pay attention to IBUs with my beers. Theres a ton of other factors that give you the perceived bitterness such as cohumelone%, grain bill, yeast flavors, serving temperature, etc. I've had stouts that have IBUs in the IPA range yet I barely could detect hops. On the other hand, I;ve made IPAs that say the IBUs are upwards of 100 from online calculations, yet no one has complained it was too hoppy. I think its mostly just a number that breweries can use as a tool to get people to drink their beer. Theres so many IPAs marketed around being a certain number of IBUs, its like an arms race

I generally just go for the hop flavors, but you could easily just add another 1oz at 60min if you just want more bitterness

Lately I've been doing hop stands with 6oz or so, but 4oz works pretty well too. I just let it sit at just below boiling with the kettle covered for 30min before chilling. It really gives the beer a great nose and more flavor than I first expected

 

[Sippin37]

Another great tip for Black IPAs is to hold off on steeping/mashing the dark malts until only the last few minutes, or even doing a cold steep separately and adding that wort to the boil. This will help lower the harsh roastiness those malts can sometimes contribute but still gets you the color.

 

[TheOrlandoGuy]

Adjusted the hop additions and times -

1 oz. Magnum @ 60 mins
0.5 oz. Centennial @ 60 mins

1 oz. Amarillo @ 20 mins
1 oz. Cascade @ 20 mins

1 oz. Citra @ 5 mins
0.5 oz. Cascade @ 5 mins

1 oz. Citra dry hop for 14 days
0.5 oz. Cascade dry hop for 14 days
0.5 oz. Amarillo dry hop for 14 days

Comes out to 72.58 IBUs, but most importantly, hopefully loads of hop flavor and aroma!

 

[Creten]

I have heard that also adding a cup or two of Kahlua to the fermentation process will blacken up an IPA, up the ABV a touch and add some additional flavor notes. Might be an easy way to make a black IPA without having to mess with a dark malt heavy grain bill.

I have yet to try this myself but its on the list for next year.

 

[hanuswalrus]

You're making a starter with dry yeast? Or just rehydrating?