Hop growing in Madison, Wi?

[uuurang]

Any madtown people growing hops in the area? What's your experience? What works, what doesn't...etc.

I ordered from NB on a whim to see if I could cultivate.

centennial
brewers gold
mt. hood
cascade

 

[Makita]

I also live in Madison. A friend of mine who lives here is growing some hops on his backyard fence. I'll see if he can give my any info that I can pass along.

I'll piggyback on this thread to ask if there are any expert home brewers in Madison who would be willing to taste a few of my home brews. They all have this characteristic taste/odor that I can't identify. It isn't terrible, but I could do without it.

 

[britishbloke]

No expert here. But have probably tried every beer in Woodmans Liquor Store...

Just bottled a real tasty Chocolate Oatmeal stout. Yummy,.

 

[uuurang]

ya, hey makita any insights would be great. From what i've read rich manured dirt with good drainage, plenty o' water, good sunshine and a place to grow to the heavens is a recipe for success, oh and I almost forgot, patience.

It's hard to wait, the 'zomes should be here within the next couple of weeks. It's so warm now (50's) I'm tempted to believe our sub freezing temps. are gone for good. Of course though, that's not likely the case.

 

[uuurang]

I'll piggyback on this thread to ask if there are any expert home brewers in Madison who would be willing to taste a few of my home brews. They all have this characteristic taste/odor that I can't identify. It isn't terrible, but I could do without it.

Well...is it kinda like a coppery, mineral harshness, maybe kinda overly bitter. I've noticed some odd tastes in my own brews. It's indistinct and that's the best description I can come up with. In my case I think it was because I wouldn't strain out leftover pellet hops from the boil. I'd just toss the cooled wort, hops and trub(?) back and forth between buckets to aerate and leave it to ferment in primary from 1 to 3 weeks b4 racking to secondary. Probably far too much hops extraction? Please, anyone, chime in if off base.

But...even though I've stopped carrying the hops over, there is still a noticeable off flavor in some brews. I use the tap water. Noticed that when boiling just straight tap water that a lot of salts or something precipitate out at the bottom of the kettle. I think that has to do with the very hard water here, something like 335ppm calcium carbonate according to city's yearly water quality test. Maybe all that precipitate affects certain brew styles negatively. Imperial stout, weizen, scotch ale all tasted great.

 

[uuurang]

...city's yearly water quality test.

One more thing, I don't know if you've seen the consumer quality report mailing they send out for this town but it sucks. Everybody is up in arms cuz theres too much manganese in water and no one can agree on how much is too much.

Very little info as far as I can tell. This is what I dug up on inorganic contaminats...

Inorganic Contaminants
Contaminant (units) MCL MCLG Level Found Range Sample Date (if prior to 2006) Violation Typical Source of Contaminant
ANTIMONY TOTAL (ppb) 6 6 1.7 .0- 1.7 05/27/2005 NO Discharge from petroleum refineries; fire retardants; ceramics; electronics; solder
ARSENIC (ppb) 10 n/a 2 0- 2 05/27/2005 NO Erosion of natural deposits; Runoff from orchards; Runoff from glass and electronics production wastes
BARIUM (ppm) 2 2 .052 .007- .052 05/26/2005 NO Discharge of drilling wastes; Discharge from metal refineries; Erosion of natural deposits
CHROMIUM (ppb) 100 100 2 0- 2 05/25/2005 NO Discharge from steel and pulp mills; Erosion of natural deposits
FLUORIDE (ppm) 4 4 1.2 (average) 1.0- 1.4 NO Erosion of natural deposits; Water additive which promotes strong teeth; Discharge from fertilizer and aluminum factories
NICKEL (ppb) 100 3.6000 .0000- 3.6000 05/25/2005 NO Nickel occurs naturally in soils, ground water and surface waters and is often used in electroplating, stainless steel and alloy products.
NITRATE (N03-N) (ppm) 10 10 1.13 (average) nd- 3.78 NO Runoff from fertilizer use; Leaching from septic tanks, sewage; Erosion of natural deposits
SODIUM (ppm) n/a n/a 25.20 2.20- 25.20 05/25/2005 NO n/a

The only thing that might be helpful is the sodium measurement. No mention of magnesium, calcium carbonate and the other important carbonate? that determines permanent and temporary hardness in water. Blech! Suppose I could take a minute to call someone and ask nicely.(too lazy)

 

[McCall St. Brewer]

Hops should grow wonderfully in Madison.

As for your beer, have you tried using bottled water to rule out problems with your city tap water?

 

[Makita]

I've used tap water, Brita-filtered tap water, and bottled "drinking" water from the store (I assume that means it has some minerals in it as opposed to distilled water.)

It's hard to say how much it has affected the taste because I've been making different beers with the different waters. Certainly, though, I've never made a beer that doesn't have some degree of that taste.

As for describing the taste....I can't put my finger on it. I wouldn't call it metallic or mineral-like. Overly-bitter is a good start. But there is something else. It can't just be "bitterness" because it smells exactly like it tastes. Probably astringent, but also maybe plastic-like.

Also, regardless of head retention quality, my beers tend to have slightly fizzy carbonation. Not as bad as soda, but also not quite as "smooth" as commercial beer.

EDIT: Just had another tasting session with my beer. I think I've made a breakthough in identifying the bad taste. It is very yeasty. I know that sounds easy to identify, but this yeasty taste has a HARSH character absent in normal yeasty-tasting commercial beer (eg, Hoogarten). There is also enough sediment in the bottle to cover the bottom, and make the beer (IPA) somewhat cloudy when stirred.

 

[Makita]

Okay, I just talked to my friend about his hops.

The bad news is he couldn't tell me much about his hops because they're not doing well. He planted them in partial or full shade, when they actually need full sunlight. This was his first go and he didn't do much research.

The good news is that he bought them at Jung's Garden Center in Madison (or maybe Fitchburg). He bought Cascade and something else he couldn't remember the name of. He said they would know which varieties can grow around here. He didn't think that Johanssen's off the beltline had any hops, but wasn't 100% sure.

So, I guess I would stop by Jung's and see what they know.

 

[Pumbaa]

you'll hav just about zero problems growing hops here . . . just keep an eye out for aphids and powdery mildew . . . check out this and use the 2 tonics in post 13 and you'll be fine . . .

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/afcm/hop.html
German beermakers have been using wild hop (Humulus lupulus L.) to flavor their brew for hundreds of years. Hop was introduced to the United States from England in 1629. The first commercial hop yard in the United States was established in New York in 1808. Cultivation of the crop rapidly spread south and west. Wisconsin became a major producer of hop for a brief period late in the nineteenth century, but New York remained the leader until the crop was virtually wiped out in both states by downy mildew in the 1920s.

http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/turningpoints/search.asp?id=1267
Upstate New York was the center of commercial hop production in the United States in the early nineteenth century. Many Yankee farmers brought their hop growing skills westward to Wisconsin in the 1830s and 1840s and established major hop farms in Waukesha County and, in particular, Sauk County. By 1867, over 27,000 bales, weighing over 200 lbs. a piece, were produced in Sauk County alone. Because all of the work was done by hand, the demand for labor was strong, especially as the number of breweries needing hops rapidly increased. Special trains would bring thousands of workers from Milwaukee, mainly women, to work in the fields. John Rooney recounts here his experiences working on Sauk County hop farms in the 1860s.

I'm honestly considering it as a "retirement" job

 

[uwmgdman]

One more thing, I don't know if you've seen the consumer quality report mailing they send out for this town but it sucks. Everybody is up in arms cuz theres too much manganese in water and no one can agree on how much is too much.

Very little info as far as I can tell. This is what I dug up on inorganic contaminats...

Inorganic Contaminants
Contaminant (units) MCL MCLG Level Found Range Sample Date (if prior to 2006) Violation Typical Source of Contaminant
ANTIMONY TOTAL (ppb) 6 6 1.7 .0- 1.7 05/27/2005 NO Discharge from petroleum refineries; fire retardants; ceramics; electronics; solder
ARSENIC (ppb) 10 n/a 2 0- 2 05/27/2005 NO Erosion of natural deposits; Runoff from orchards; Runoff from glass and electronics production wastes
BARIUM (ppm) 2 2 .052 .007- .052 05/26/2005 NO Discharge of drilling wastes; Discharge from metal refineries; Erosion of natural deposits
CHROMIUM (ppb) 100 100 2 0- 2 05/25/2005 NO Discharge from steel and pulp mills; Erosion of natural deposits
FLUORIDE (ppm) 4 4 1.2 (average) 1.0- 1.4 NO Erosion of natural deposits; Water additive which promotes strong teeth; Discharge from fertilizer and aluminum factories
NICKEL (ppb) 100 3.6000 .0000- 3.6000 05/25/2005 NO Nickel occurs naturally in soils, ground water and surface waters and is often used in electroplating, stainless steel and alloy products.
NITRATE (N03-N) (ppm) 10 10 1.13 (average) nd- 3.78 NO Runoff from fertilizer use; Leaching from septic tanks, sewage; Erosion of natural deposits
SODIUM (ppm) n/a n/a 25.20 2.20- 25.20 05/25/2005 NO n/a

The only thing that might be helpful is the sodium measurement. No mention of magnesium, calcium carbonate and the other important carbonate? that determines permanent and temporary hardness in water. Blech! Suppose I could take a minute to call someone and ask nicely.(too lazy)

I emailed and asked for the spreadsheet from the water department with all the info we want for brewing. They were very helpful. The spreadsheet lists all wells in the city, if you give them your address they can tell you what well serves your house. Surprising or maybe not surprisingly, there is a large variation. I can send you the spreadsheet if you like, but there are 30 or 40 some wells on it.

 

[Bernie Brewer]

Hops oughtta grow real well in MadTown. Lord know, you've got hemp growing wild in every ditch in the area, you oughtta be able to clutivate some hops.....

 

[uuurang]

The good news is that he bought them at Jung's Garden Center in Madison (or maybe Fitchburg). He bought Cascade and something else he couldn't remember the name of. He said they would know which varieties can grow around here. He didn't think that Johanssen's off the beltline had any hops, but wasn't 100% sure.

So, I guess I would stop by Jung's and see what they know.

Very interesting. I go to Jungs in Randolph often. I'll have to ask around. They have a large selection of rhizome, bulbs and tuber plants. Never thought they'd carry hops.

 

[uuurang]

As for your beer, have you tried using bottled water to rule out problems with your city tap water?

No. Bottled water for some reason just seems wrong to me. Somehow it seems like cheating. Ya know, maybe like I'm betraying or cheating the hand I was dealt. Most of all I want to learn the characteristics of the natural elements that are present in my local area and how to work with them. Ok, mostly I can't plan ahead and I'm too cheap to pay the extra for bottled water. I already paid $150 iirc for the last 6 months for sewer and water(sheesh!). I beeter find a way to get my tap water to work!

 

[uuurang]

you'll hav just about zero problems growing hops here . . . just keep an eye out for aphids and powdery mildew . . . check out this and use the 2 tonics in post 13 and you'll be fine . . .





I'm honestly considering it as a "retirement" job

Pumbaa, Wow!That's a tight post dude. Lotsa great info. The box elder killer recipe I'll have to share with my pops cuz he gets invaded every year in Verona. He'll have great fun pissing in a jar for a good reason instead of just for the hell of it!
Enjoying a Capital blonde dopplebock now, yummy!

 

[uuurang]

I emailed and asked for the spreadsheet from the water department with all the info we want for brewing. They were very helpful. The spreadsheet lists all wells in the city, if you give them your address they can tell you what well serves your house. Surprising or maybe not surprisingly, there is a large variation. I can send you the spreadsheet if you like, but there are 30 or 40 some wells on it.

That's cool! You guys make this too easy! I don't have to do any heavy lifting. Sure, if the spreadsheet isn't too big, maybe it'd be better if I emailed them with my address to get my specific well? uwmgdman, did you go here [email protected] or here [email protected] with your request?...Also what specificly should I ask about...ah never mind I can just go to Palmer's online book to get that info. TIA!

uugghh... I'm exhausted. I dug 2 4ft deep holes for dog poop septic system in back yard this afternoon. Dug one, but decided no good so had to start over, DOH! FYI, there is a frost layer a foot deep, very hard.

 

[uwmgdman]

That's cool! You guys make this too easy! I don't have to do any heavy lifting. Sure, if the spreadsheet isn't too big, maybe it'd be better if I emailed them with my address to get my specific well? uwmgdman, did you go here [email protected] or here [email protected] with your request?...Also what specificly should I ask about...ah never mind I can just go to Palmer's online book to get that info. TIA!

uugghh... I'm exhausted. I dug 2 4ft deep holes for dog poop septic system in back yard this afternoon. Dug one, but decided no good so had to start over, DOH! FYI, there is a frost layer a foot deep, very hard.

Email them at
[email protected]
Just tell them you'd like the city well spreadsheet for all wells that includes information like water hardness, alkalinity, sodium, sulfates, etc. Include your address so they can tell you what well serves your house. They were real nice and got back to me in a few hours. They also said that will be posted online in the future, but I doubt it, I mean what's stopping them from posting the current one? But no worries about that if they get back to you like they did me.

 

[uuurang]

Well, sent email to city o' madison.
Getting back to the off topic subject of off flavors, ie. mmditter & makita from earlier, the thing to do would be to do two brew sessions with same style beer, ingredients, methods, etc except for water used. One with tap water the other with bottled water. Sounds like fun talking about it. Probably not that much fun doing it for barely noticeable results. I'll have to put that one in the hopper. I'm sure I'm not the first to come up with that.

 

[uuurang]

Pumbaa, question if your game,
Are you aware of any commercial hop growers in Wisconsin? I'm only aware of hops being grown in Oregon and Washington.

Downy mildew, is that a fungus due to high moisture levels? Would our high humidity levels during summer have led to the demise of 19th century hop growers?
You know, that might not be a half bad idea as far as bringing back hops to the state. I am assuming you want to grow hops in wi, probably on a hobby, organic basis.

 

[Scotty_g]

My dad lives in Green Bay and got a hops plant somewhere along the line before I started brewing, or I'd have had him plant a few more. I have no idea what kind, but it's on the south side of a wood fence in pretty strong sunlight, and it gets about 15' long or better. It gets watered with the rest of the herb garden, which means it isn't drying out but doesn't have its leaves sprayed either.

Madison's growing season is 3 weeks longer if not a whole month (this year notwithstanding), so for a root crop you are probably only a couple weeks away from planting rhizomes...the 10-day forecast calls for decent weather up north here so I wouldn't worry about the ground freezing again in Madison.

Before you bank on my advice, know that I can grow raspberries and oregano reliably, and everything else is a crapshoot. But those berries, man...I think I see a raspberry hefe coming up this August.

 

[hialtitude]

Sorry to change topic, but I went to UWGB and had a roomate who went by Scotty G. Not you is it?

 

[Scotty_g]

I don't think I'm your guy. I actually went to college in Madison so I'm familiar with the weather there. I also learned to drink beer at the Essen Haus, which has spoiled me for life. There's nothing like Hacker-Pschorr Oktoberfest on tap in a 1-L glass.

 

[Pumbaa]

Pumbaa, question if your game,
Are you aware of any commercial hop growers in Wisconsin? I'm only aware of hops being grown in Oregon and Washington.

Pearl St Brewery in La Crosse grows their own hops . . . thats all I kow off though

 

[orion2598]

I'm in Madtown and just bought my first hop rhizomes too! Anyone have some ideas for a cheap, local place to get a good tressel? What are you using for your vines?

I'm on the far west side, but would be interested in some beer swaps!

Greg

 

[uuurang]

My parents have a place in the country in verona with a 60 ft long, 10ft high vine growing "wall" with southern exposure.

I'ts killing me I can't get these things in the ground yet with the sub freezing temps at night...maybe next weekend.

Also, Dave Wills from freshops in oregon (the most likely place we all got our rhizomes from) says to dig a whole 2' deep and use an entire bag of composted cow manure per rhizome. Dave says to use chicken crap to fertilize if you have access to it. And mounding helps to promote good drainage.

I'm not sure my wifes up for swapping...oh wait, ya beer swap would be cool.

 

[david_42]

I wouldn't buy hops from a garden place, they probably carry something like Sunbeam, which is pretty, but won't have much of a yield. I planted one last year & it's the only one that hasn't sprouted yet.

 

[uuurang]

I checked out jungseed.com website and they do purport to sell cascade and mt. hood...here...https://www.jungseed.com/jungsite/jungsitebrowse.aspx?category=4961

I'm pretty sure they get them from freshops or somewhere else...?...who else is there that distributes hops?

Hopefully, this won't get this thread deleted...How do I edit the link post to show something other than the actual long link address? For instance, https://www.jungseed.com/jungsite/jungsitebrowse.aspx?category=4961 , to just say "link". Maybe I should post this elsewhere...

 

[Scotty_g]

I apologize for digging up a thread that died in April, but I was curious to know how the Madtown hop crops came up this year. Dad didn't get any cones on his hop vines this year, although our summer was *really* dry. It may also be that he didn't look in time.

With the shortage of hops this year (which hopefully won't be repeated anytime soon) I was thinking about planting a few vines myself next spring. It's easier to buy than grow, but if I have my own supply that's insurance for at least one or two varieties.

 

[uuurang]

Of the 5 vines I planted last spring the cascade and brewers gold produced something to brew with. The Mt. Hood, Centennial and willamette grew to about 3-4 feet tall but no cones. Maybe this spring...