Honker's Ale clone

[adamjab19]

That looks good WildPirate. I assume the wheat is for head retention and the roasted barley only for color really. Thats why I got away with my ingredients coming so close to taste and color. I think I shot for about 10 or 12 SRM because the 14 was just a touch too dark. But thats being picky I suppose.

 

[WildPirate]

ya i'm thinking about not even including the roasted barley but it can't hurt i suppose

 

[griffondg]

Ok, I just made my version of this based on the guy who interviewed the brewer back in 98: http://forums.morebeer.com/viewtopic.php?t=15408&highlight=honkers

I bottled it a week ago and just tasted it and WOW, is it close! It still has a bit to carb but I'm very pleased. Here is what I used:

7 lbs 2 row
2 lbs crystal 60
.75 lbs wheat
.25 lbs special roast

Mash at 152

2 oz Styrian (3.5%) 60 min
4 oz Styrian (3.5%) 5 min

This is going to become my house ale!

Eric

 

[jeffdill]

I'm raising this thread from the dead to see if you have any opinions on how I would do this with extract. I'm looking to make this in a few days so hopefully I can get it figured out!

 

[ferrarimobile]

what yeast?

 

[griffondg]

I used White Labs London Ale

 

[Deskjockey894]

I just came about this thread and also wanted to get an extract version of the recipe. It looks like the styrian golding hops and yeast have been settled. How would the below ingredients translate for an extract recipe?:

7 lbs 2 row
2 lbs crystal 60
.75 lbs wheat
.25 lbs special roast

 

[ferrarimobile]

I wanna say that 2 lbs Crystal Mal t sounds like it will be too sweet. I would back off the crystal malt a little bit. Honkers Ale seems to finish more dry than 2 lbs 60L could produce. Most English Bitter clones I have seen that are spot on have a combination of higher 55L Crystal and lower 10L or 20 L crystal. Also try upping the wheat and lowering the Crystal by like .25 to .5 lbs. I also think that Wyeast 1968 is the yeast to use. Fruity, good attenuation, and clean. (Great for top cropping also)

 

[ferrarimobile]

I'm not sure that you will get ABV of 4.2 with that amount of malt. Everything sounds good but up the wheat and pale malts a bit. Use Styrian Goldings only. Consider Wyeast 1968 ESB.

(in response to the recipe with 6 lbs pale, .5 wheat, and .1 special roast)

 

[Deskjockey894]

You'll need to really spell this out for me because I new to the game. I'm not sure I'm following this. So are you saying I'll need more than 6 pounds of pale malt extract? how much more based on a 5 gal batch? What specifically is .5 wheat and .1 special roast? Does this hop schedule need to be adjusted based on the above?:

2 oz Styrian (3.5%) 60 min
4 oz Styrian (3.5%) 5 min

 

[ferrarimobile]

This is what I am trying. I don't say it will be a perfect clone, but based on what the bremaster says on the website, coupled with my regular imbibement of the beer and my knowledge of the Bitter style, I think it should come close.


Water is part of the taste, dude, so the Chicago Water Profile is as follows:

Calcium 35
Magnesium 12.5
Bicarbonate 121
Sulphate 28.5
Sodium 8.1
Chloride 13.1

To see your adjustments go to this website, http://brewerslair.com/index.php?p=brewhouse&d=calculators&id=cal06&u=eng and type in desired profile. It will make suggestions for additions.

Do a starter. 200 Billion cells is required for quick, effective fermentation of an Ale Yeast strain. A yeast pack gives you 100 and its easy to make a starter two days before. It takes like 30 minutes. I like Wyeast 1968 London ESB - itsw fruity like Honkers can be at times, but White Labs 002 will do fine as well.

7.5 lbs two row Pale Malt
1.75 Lbs 60 L crystal
1 lb Wheat Malt
.25 Lbs Special Roast (any roast malt will do)

I use this brewing calculator for my brews, it rocks

http://powersbrewery.home.comcast.net/~powersbrewery/mastercalculator.html

60 Minute Mash 152 degrees

I see this as a constant addition of hops to get the full flavor balanced with bitterness.

Hops:

Styrian Goldings
19 IBU's 60 Minutes (about an oz.)
8 IBU's 30 minutes (about an oz.)
2 IBU's 15 Minutes (about an oz.)
1 IBU's Flame Out (about an oz.)

90 minute boil
Crash Cool with a chiller

Carbonate to between 2.5 and 3 volumes - not to style, but Honkers Ale is highly carbonated anyways.

I will do this brew in the next couple of weeks as my stab at the Honkers Ale Clone. I will be quite happy if it hits. If not, the ingredients say tasty beverage anyhow. Let me know if you do it as well. Good luck!

 

[Deskjockey894]

So based on this ingredient list for mash, how would I convert this to using extract?

7.5 lbs two row Pale Malt
1.75 Lbs 60 L crystal
1 lb Wheat Malt
.25 Lbs Special Roast (any roast malt will do)

Would I steap the 60 L crystal, Wheat malt, and Special roast?

 

[ferrarimobile]

Being so close, I imagine that Goose Island uses Breiss malt, so convert the 7.5 lbs of pale malt to Breiss malt light extract or DME (I like DME myself but I'm not an extract brewer). I'm not sure the extract to grain ratio. Probably about 5 lbs or so, but check online for that conversion. I would absolutely still steep the specialty grains and do a partial mash.

 

[AnchorBock]

Has anyone tried the more recent recipe listed here?

 

[jbenjamin]

I have brewed two of the recipes posted to this thread but have found that they have been more malty than what Honkers has tasted like both in the bottle and keg.

The following is my attempt to zero in on this beer. After brewing I'll post back with the results.


Honkers Ale Clone

Special/Best/Premium Bitter


Type: All Grain
Date: 5/26/2011
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Brewer: John Benjamin
Boil Size: 6.82 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: John's Equipment
Taste Rating(out of 50): Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
7 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 87.50 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 6.25 %
4.0 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 3.13 %
4.0 oz Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 3.13 %
1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] (60 min) Hops 20.7 IBU
0.50 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] (30 min) Hops 8.0 IBU
0.50 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] (10 min) Hops 3.8 IBU
1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] (Dry Hop 5 days) Hops -
1 Pkgs London Ale (Wyeast Labs #1028) Yeast-Ale



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.043 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.043 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.010 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.25 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.29 %
Bitterness: 32.5 IBU Calories: 189 cal/pint
Est Color: 13.2 SRM Color: Color


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge Total Grain Weight: 8.00 lb
Sparge Water: 6.08 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F TunTemperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 10.00 qt of water at 170.1 F 154.0 F



Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).
Carbonation and Storage

Carbonation Type: Kegged (Forced CO2) Volumes of CO2: 2.2
Pressure/Weight: 11.4 PSI Carbonation Used: -
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 45.0 F Age for: 28.0 days
Storage Temperature: 45.0 F

Notes


Created with BeerSmith

 

[DHUKILL]

@jbenjamin, how did this turn out?

 

[MeanGreen]

@jbenjamin, how did this turn out?

bump

 

[AnchorBock]

I'm brewing the following today which is pretty much the same as one a few pages back, I'll reply once its carbed with a comparison to the commercial brew:

70% efficiency,
5.25 gallons into fermenter
Mash at 154
8 lbs US 2 row 71%
2 lbs crystal 60 18%
1 lbs white wheat 9%
0.25 roasted barley 300L 2%
1.5 oz Styrian Goldings 4.9%AA 60 mins
2.5 oz Styrian Goldings 4.9%AA 5 mins

WLP007, ferment at 65F
1.044 OG
1.011 FG

 

[MeanGreen]

I took a run on this based on this thread and others linked here.

I brewed this 11/3/11 and kegged it on 12/1. It's slowly force carbing now. I had sample last night and think this is a very fine beer and close to honkers


Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 11.50 gal
Boil Size: 13.55 gal
Estimated OG: 1.050 SG
Estimated Color: 11.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 28.1 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
16 lbs Pale Malt - 2 Row (Cargill) (2.0 SRM) Grain 81.27 %
2 lbs Crystal Malt - 60L (Thomas Fawcett) (60.0 Grain 10.16 %
1 lbs Wheat, Torrified (1.7 SRM) Grain 5.08 %
8.0 oz Caramalt (Simpsons) (35.0 SRM) Grain 2.54 %
3.0 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 0.95 %
0.25 oz Galena [13.00 %] (60 min) (First Wort HopHops 5.6 IBU
0.25 oz Fuggles [3.50 %] (60 min) (First Wort HopHops 1.5 IBU
1.00 oz Williamette [2.42 %] (15 min) Hops 1.9 IBU
1.25 oz Galena [13.00 %] (15 min) Hops 12.7 IBU
1.50 oz Fuggles [3.50 %] (15 min) Hops 4.1 IBU
0.25 oz Northdown [9.60 %] (5 min) Hops 0.8 IBU
1.00 oz Williamette [2.40 %] (5 min) Hops 0.8 IBU
1.00 oz Williamette [2.40 %] (1 min) Hops 0.2 IBU
1.00 oz Northdown [9.60 %] (1 min) Hops 0.7 IBU
1 Pkgs London Ale (Wyeast Labs #1028) Yeast-Ale
1 Pkgs London ESB Ale (Wyeast Labs #1968) Yeast-Ale

The Northdown is out of place base on the reviews around the web however I ran out of Fuggles. It works fine

I prefer the 1968 in this one however they are both great.

I have 13% Crystal and according to the GI links posted it calls for 20%. I think if you do that you have to mash at 148. This beer is about right with 13% crystal and a 152 mash temp

I debated about going 7% C60 7% C40 or using more british malts. I think its a win either way

I'm not too obsessed with "cloning" anymore, more inspired by and this is a great recipe

 

[CEBrewer]

I would like to make a run at a Honkers Ale. Did any of you get close? jbenjamin, AnchorBock, MeanGreen?

 

[MeanGreen]

I would like to make a run at a Honkers Ale. Did any of you get close? jbenjamin, AnchorBock, MeanGreen?

The one above is seriously close. Although my initial impressions were the 1968 was the winner.

Some age in the keg revealed the other closer. The crystal that the recipe calls for is too much with a low attenuating yeast.

Any medium attenuating British yeast will get you there.

I wouldn't change anything outside of the fact i didn't have the hops they use, styrian goldings. But my subs were just fine

 

[Barnstormer]

I'd like to give this clone a whirl. It looks like the last recipe posted is the closest so far. I think I'd plan on using the styrian goldings though. Has anyone done this recipe lateley or made any tweaks to these recipes? If so, how are they turining out?

Thanks for the input!

 

[AnchorBock]

I changed my process and havent attempted this recently but i might give it a go as well in the next month or so. I too will use only styrian goldings.

 

[griffondg]

I made one of the earlier versions based on an interview with the brewer and it was really good. Close too. I've yet to try one of the others but suppose I should just to compare. 100% agree on the need for styrian.

 

[Barnstormer]

Ok, I just made my version of this based on the guy who interviewed the brewer back in 98: http://forums.morebeer.com/viewtopic.php?t=15408&highlight=honkers

I bottled it a week ago and just tasted it and WOW, is it close! It still has a bit to carb but I'm very pleased.
Eric

I just read the thread about the interview, Thanks for linking that by the way. That thread says that they shoot for 38IBU but their website says 30. Did they bring the bitterness down in that recipe since then do you know? Maybe I will shoot for somewhere in between.

Also they talked about adding 95% of the hops during whirlpool. That got me thinking. For the homebrewer, FWH might be a good way to reproduce that closely. You still get a nice decent bitterness and keep alot of the aroma and flavor. Maybw throw a late addition on top of that and bet it would get really close.

Any thoughts on that?

 

[AnchorBock]

I just read the thread about the interview, Thanks for linking that by the way. That thread says that they shoot for 38IBU but their website says 30. Did they bring the bitterness down in that recipe since then do you know? Maybe I will shoot for somewhere in between.

Also they talked about adding 95% of the hops during whirlpool. That got me thinking. For the homebrewer, FWH might be a good way to reproduce that closely. You still get a nice decent bitterness and keep alot of the aroma and flavor. Maybw throw a late addition on top of that and bet it would get really close.

Any thoughts on that?

For whirlpool additions I just do a 20-30 minute hot steep after the boil, in other words i add the hops and just wait to start chilling. Tasty talked about that in the Firestone Walker CYBI episodes, seems to work great, Tasty even went as far as to say it added a certain mouthfeel hes been targeting for years.

 

[griffondg]

For whirlpool additions I just do a 20-30 minute hot steep after the boil, in other words i add the hops and just wait to start chilling. Tasty talked about that in the Firestone Walker CYBI episodes, seems to work great, Tasty even went as far as to say it added a certain mouthfeel hes been targeting for years.

I really like that idea. I was never sure how to replicate that step, so thanks for the tip.

I also noticed the IBU's on the website differs from the interview. I agree that targeting around 35 IBU's is a good compromise. I have one beer fermenting now and another on deck but I'm going to give this a shot in a few weeks.

Eric

 

[Barnstormer]

I'm brewing the following today which is pretty much the same as one a few pages back, I'll reply once its carbed with a comparison to the commercial brew:

70% efficiency,
5.25 gallons into fermenter
Mash at 154
8 lbs US 2 row 71%
2 lbs crystal 60 18%
1 lbs white wheat 9%
0.25 roasted barley 300L 2%
1.5 oz Styrian Goldings 4.9%AA 60 mins
2.5 oz Styrian Goldings 4.9%AA 5 mins

WLP007, ferment at 65F
1.044 OG
1.011 FG

How did the WLP007 work out for you. Did it finish too dry or did the malt still come through nicely. I've read reviews that people really like this yeast but I've never tried it myself. I was thinking of giving it a go with this one too.

 

[AnchorBock]

How did the WLP007 work out for you. Did it finish too dry or did the malt still come through nicely. I've read reviews that people really like this yeast but I've never tried it myself. I was thinking of giving it a go with this one too.

Something went wrong and the beer really didnt turn out at all, from past experience though i prefer 002 to 007 most of the time. You can get 002 to attenuate much higher than the widely believed 65-70% and still produce a malty beer.

 

[copper2hopper]

I gotta graduation party coming up that I have been asked to supply a corny keg of this brew.....anyone gotta updated recipe? I see Pilgrim, Styrian, Golding Celeia on GI's website for the hops they use in this one...can anyone elaborate on how/when they would add these???