Honey to a pale ale kit

[Stoutman82]

So I have the thomas coopers extract kit and I have some great local amish honey. I'm thinking of adding to it I plan on making about 4 to 5 gallons with the kit and have a few jars of honey. Could this work if so when should I add it? I've done two extract kits before but haven't tried to spice them up yet. Any help will be appreciated.

 

[h22lude]

I haven't used honey before but I would bet you can add it when adding your extract

 

[VTBrewer]

Actually it should be added towards the end of the boil, inside 10 minutes or you'll lose most of the flavor. I usually do 2 or 3 pounds at 8 minutes.

 

[Golddiggie]

Actually, you should add it post boil, during the cool down, once the wort is below 110-100F... Especially with high quality honey... With cheap, low flavor, honey it doesn't really matter (since you're not expecting any flavor from it)... But that changes when you have some good stuff to use.

I've added honey to a few brews so far. My first had some during the boil. I couldn't detect any when I first sampled it. I added just a pound to that same brew about two weeks after fermentation had started, and a week later you could detect it.

So, if you want some of the honey character, and greatness, to come through in the final product, add it either during cool-down (probably the easiest point), or after it's been fermenting for about 2-3 weeks. Let it go for another week (or so) if you add it then. You'll want to make sure you don't bottle too soon, since you could seriously over-carb it.

I would start with just one, or two, pounds in the brew to start with. Sample when fermentation is finished (2-4 weeks) and decide if you want to add more.

Not sure about the kit's instructions, but also keep it on the yeast cake for the full span of time. Forget about going to secondary (unless you need to rack off of a flavor element to stop it's contribution)...

 

[tasq]

You do realize honey will just further dry out the beer correct? If you want honey flavor, steep some honey malt.

 

[Golddiggie]

You do realize honey will just further dry out the beer correct? If you want honey flavor, steep some honey malt.

IF you put it during the boil, sure since it's just 80% sugar going into the beer... I wouldn't do that with any honey that's of any decent (or better) quality...

But, IF you put it post boil, during the cool down, when the wort is below 100F, you WILL get the character from the honey in there too. Of course, with the other extracts in the kit, it might need to fight to get through. You could substitute some of the LME/DME for honey to get close to the same OG and FG, with even more of the honey character coming through.

I've already made a few brews with honey added to them. After the first (where I followed the directions, hey it was my FIRST brew) I added it during the cool down, or after it went into the carboy (days later)... Much better results NOT adding it during the boil.

The vast majority of mead makers don't heat their honey at all, or do so to very low temps. That is to ensure that as much character of the honey comes through in the final product as is possible. Make two batches of mead. In one, heat the must to either boil (cringe) or even above 150F. Keep the other one below 100F, or just add some warm water to the honey to help it go into solution easier. When the two are complete, taste them and see which one has more flavor to it...

 

[tasq]

IF you put it during the boil, sure since it's just 80% sugar going into the beer... I wouldn't do that with any honey that's of any decent (or better) quality...

But, IF you put it post boil, during the cool down, when the wort is below 100F, you WILL get the character from the honey in there too. Of course, with the other extracts in the kit, it might need to fight to get through. You could substitute some of the LME/DME for honey to get close to the same OG and FG, with even more of the honey character coming through.

I've already made a few brews with honey added to them. After the first (where I followed the directions, hey it was my FIRST brew) I added it during the cool down, or after it went into the carboy (days later)... Much better results NOT adding it during the boil.

The vast majority of mead makers don't heat their honey at all, or do so to very low temps. That is to ensure that as much character of the honey comes through in the final product as is possible. Make two batches of mead. In one, heat the must to either boil (cringe) or even above 150F. Keep the other one below 100F, or just add some warm water to the honey to help it go into solution easier. When the two are complete, taste them and see which one has more flavor to it...

Interesting. I'd think in beer this could start an infection. Especially if you are using raw or unpasteurized honey. I am by no means an expert, and am perhaps too paranoid.

 

[Golddiggie]

Interesting. I'd think in beer this could start an infection. Especially if you are using raw or unpasteurized honey. I am by no means an expert, and am perhaps too paranoid.

That's a negative there Ghost Rider...

Honey actually has antibiotic properties... It's extremely difficult for anything foreign to live inside honey. I've used raw honey since day 1 of brewing without anything growing... I have a honey vanilla bourbon BarleyWine that was started on 12/11/10, with the first round of honey (4.5 #'s) added during the cool-down (under 100F) and another pound added about a 6 weeks later. Zero infections in this brew. It's actually tasting really good now, and I'm hunting for bottles for it to go into. I'll be priming it with more honey too. Although with the low CO2 volumes we're going for on this, that's more on principle than anything else.

I've, personally, used honey to fight infections (infected toes when I was younger) with great results. This was with the raw, unpasteurized honey. I do believe that for many centuries (if not longer), honey was also used to treat wounds to keep infection away, or to draw it out.

I think this is a case where people are so used to anything 'raw' or unpasteurized being called 'bad for you' that it's tainted their perceptions.

Talk with any mead maker that's been doing it for any length of time, and tell him you want to boil the honey before starting a batch (or even pasteurize it) and he'll either shake his/her head in pity, look at you like you're insane, mention how much better it would be if you didn't do that, or just walk away.

Think about this... Raw honey is kept in bee hives for months on end without any infections coming about. In the wild, honey is stored for the entire winter season, going many months before flowers are blooming again, so that the bees can go about gathering more pollen. If honey was so vulnerable to infection that it had to be pasteurized to keep for any amount of time, bees wouldn't be able to exist.

I would only (ever now) heat honey to the point where it flows... Raw, filtered, honey does that easily...

 

[tasq]

Thanks for taking the time to explain!

The honey will still thin out the body a bit in a beer, correct?

 

[Golddiggie]

Thanks for taking the time to explain!

The honey will still thin out the body a bit in a beer, correct?

It will ferment out drier than if you didn't have it, or used the same weight in DME... Keep your specialty grains, and the rest of the recipe the same, and just add some honey to it. If you're concerned, you can also add another pound of DME to the recipe.

In my honey porter (first brew ever) I used
2 pounds dark DME <-- original recipe had 1#
4 pounds dark LME (one can)
6 ounces Crystal Malt 40
5 ounces Black Malt
5 ounces Cara-Pils
3 pounds honey (two during boil and one in secondary-- before I learned that secondary is unnecessary)... original recipe called for just 1#
1 ounce Northern Brewer hops (48 minute boil)
1 ounce Fuggles hops (8 minute boil)

That was one extra pound of DME... I was looking to get a bit more kick out of the brew, since the recipe called out 4.2% ABV... As things ended up, it was a hair over 7% ABV.

The OG was 1.072, with a FG of 1.018.

If I was to make it again, I would add all the honey during cool-down. I would still have an extra pound on hand for when taste testing it after 3 weeks in primary. I probably will make it again, come end of summer/early fall this year. Of course, I'll be going for an all grain version.

 

[tasq]

Once you go AG you'll never look back.

 

[Golddiggie]

Made my third all grain batch yesterday... Also second time using washed yeast. Will be bottling one of my all grain brews today, with that same yeast (took two doses from the first washing)... I plan to wash the yeast from that carboy too.

Once you start washing yeast, and see what you can save (over liquid yeasts) it makes things better. Plus, you can create a bank of yeast to have on hand for anytime you want to brew... In about two weeks, I'll be getting a Barley Crusher and a full sack of Maris Otter... After that, keezer and kegs to populate it... :rockin:

 

[Stoutman82]

So I made the pale ale kit added the honey it made a beautiful color the according to my hydrometer my abv was 15% I forget the og off the top of my head. Is this because of the sugar from the honey?

 

[Golddiggie]

So I made the pale ale kit added the honey it made a beautiful color the according to my hydrometer my abv was 15% I forget the og off the top of my head. Is this because of the sugar from the honey?

Seriously doubt that it was 15% potential alcohol... More likely you were reading the Balling number. Hope you wrote down the OG, so post that up...

 

[Stoutman82]

The og was 1.060 I didn't notice that it was a reading side for table wine. Its still fermenting today bubbling incredibly fast but still smells good.

 

[Stoutman82]

My only real concern is when it comes to botteling how much priming sugar i'll need since I've never messed around with a recipie. Always just followed directions.

 

[Golddiggie]

1.060 sounds more in line...

For the priming sugar amount, that's what software is for.

Enter the temp it's been fermenting at, or the lowest temp the wort has been while fermenting. Then figure out where in the style range you want the carbonation level. It will then tell you how much sugar to add (by weight)...

One such tool can be found here: http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/brew/widgets/bp.html You can use the pull-down for the style the brew falls into, to get a range, then enter what you want for CO2 volume (from that range) and the temperature. Hit "Calculate!" and let it do the math for you...

 

[Stoutman82]

Very cool thanks