Honey Malt or Honey?

[OldRugged]

I recently brewed a honey wheat beer and it turned out way too sweet for my preferences. I'm wondering which contributed more to the sweetness, the honey malt or the actual honey? I added the honey at the beginning of the boil. I want to brew it again but make it less sweet. Let me know your thoughts. Here's the recipe:

1) 3 lbs Gold Dry Malt Extract
2) 3 lbs Wheat Dry Malt Extract
3) 1lb Clover Honey
4) 0.5 lb Honey Barley Malt 40l
5) ¼ oz Sweet Orange Peels
6) ½ oz Cascade boiling hops
7) ½ oz Cascade finishing hops
8) Summer Honey Yeast from Big Sky Brewery

 

[CrookedTail]

I recently brewed a honey wheat beer and it turned out way too sweet for my preferences. I'm wondering which contributed more to the sweetness, the honey malt or the actual honey? I added the honey at the beginning of the boil. I want to brew it again but make it less sweet. Let me know your thoughts. Here's the recipe:

1) 3 lbs Gold Dry Malt Extract
2) 3 lbs Wheat Dry Malt Extract
3) 1lb Clover Honey
4) 0.5 lb Honey Barley Malt 40l
5) ¼ oz Sweet Orange Peels
6) ½ oz Cascade boiling hops
7) ½ oz Cascade finishing hops
8) Summer Honey Yeast from Big Sky Brewery

That recipe is way out of balance. You didn't use enough hops. I brew a honey wheat that uses .5lbs honey malt and 1 lb of Orange Blossom honey. I hop it to just under 30 IBUs. It counters the sweetness very well.

1/2 oz of boiling hops and 1/2 oz to finish is not enough.


Also I'm not familiar with the yeast you used. You probably want to use a strain that ferments pretty dry. I use US-05 in mine, and it works very well.

 

[Poobah58]

Honey does not contribute to sweetness. In fact, it does just the opposite. Honey is nearly 100% fermentable, thus it leaves no unfermentables which contribute to sweetness/mouthfeel. Honey will thin or dry out a beer. It won't even give you any flavor in such small amounts. Honey malt on the other hand is basically a crystal malt. It will contribute to sweetness and mouthfeel. The extracts have a descent amount of carapils. Maybe this is the sweetness you detect. Go ahead and add the honey but drop the honey malt. Also, try increasing your bittering hops to give it more balance as stated above.

 

[a10t2]

What was the FG? Honey is almost pure sugar and should ferment out entirely, leaving no residual sweetness. Unless you had some sort of fermentation problem.

 

[RosewaterFoundation]

Also, try increasing your bittering hops to give it more balance as stated above.

This. And I'll toss in that the few times I've used honey malt, I have not been pleased with the flavor.

 

[CrookedTail]

This. And I'll toss in that the few times I've used honey malt, I have not been pleased with the flavor.

You have to keep it in small amounts, no more than half a pound. It's an intense-flavored malt.

 

[OldRugged]

Sounds like not enough hops and too much honey malt. The FG was 1.016.

 

[Steelers77]

Honey malt can be used up to 20% according to Gambrinus, I've never used that much. I don't think I would call it an overly intense malt but that could be from the low % I've used. That all being said we need to know the FG, as mentioned before honey will completely ferment so I doubt it's that.

Did you do an extract late method, full boil, partial boil?

 

[CrookedTail]

Sounds like not enough hops and too much honey malt. The FG was 1.016.

Don't change too many things at once. Leave the honey malt as is. Just increase the hops. If after doing that, the beer is still too sweet then you decrease the malt.

How long did you let it ferment?

 

[CrookedTail]

Honey malt can be used up to 20% according to Gambrinus, I've never used that much. I don't think I would call it an overly intense malt but that could be from the low % I've used. That all being said we need to know the FG, as mentioned before honey will completely ferment so I doubt it's that.

Did you do an extract late method, full boil, partial boil?

No way would I use 20% honey malt in a beer. I'd keep it under 10.

 

[Brew_4iT]

how long did it ferment for? I think honey takes a bit longer to fully ferment so maybe you just bottled too soon??? That would make sense for it being too sweet if the yeast didn't completely finish their job.

 

[a10t2]

So subtracting out the effect of the honey (assuming it fermented fully), you had a ~1.054 OG and 1.018 FG, or 67% ADF. That's pretty low, even for extract. Probably a combination of the crystal malt in the gold extract and the crystal (honey) malt. If you were to brew this again, I'd keep everything else the same but switch out the gold extract for "extra light", or more wheat DME. That will probably drop several points off your FG.

 

[TopherM21]

Cascade aren't big alpha-acid hops, but I do love the citrus/spicy notes that they add especially in wheat beers. Assuming 5% AA (ish), 2 or 3 1oz additions (depending on what you're going for) should help balance this beer out a lot.
1oz @ 60 (bittering)
1oz @ 15 (flavor)
1oz @ flameout (optional) for the aroma

You can always reserve the honey for the last 10-15min of the boil to better utilize the bittering hops.

And, I'm curious about the yeast... what do you know about it?

Look forward to hearing how it turns out!

 

[Jebu1788]

Honey does not contribute to sweetness. In fact, it does just the opposite. Honey is nearly 100% fermentable, thus it leaves no unfermentables which contribute to sweetness/mouthfeel. Honey will thin or dry out a beer. It won't even give you any flavor in such small amounts. Honey malt on the other hand is basically a crystal malt. It will contribute to sweetness and mouthfeel. The extracts have a descent amount of carapils. Maybe this is the sweetness you detect. Go ahead and add the honey but drop the honey malt. Also, try increasing your bittering hops to give it more balance as stated above.

Have you ever tried adding the honey at flame-out? From what I've read, it will retain some flavors and aroma, because what kills it is boiling the honey. I have a beer I added honey to at flame-out; it hasn't carbed up yet, but there was definitely a honey smell/taste. I did however use some honey malt as well...

But I agree, in this case, it's not the honey. Honey malt or extract seem to be the culprit.

 

[Steelers77]

No way would I use 20% honey malt in a beer. I'd keep it under 10.

I hear ya, I was surprised that they suggested usage up to that percentage.

 

[OldRugged]

I got a little anxious and bottled it after 10 days in primary. But the FG stayed at 1.016 for 2 days in a row, so I figured I was good to go. As far as the yeast goes, I was trying to Clone Big Sky Summer Honey, so I went out and got some yeast from them. I don't have a clue what kind of yeast it was.

It's not a bad beer, just too sweet for my taste. Some of my friends love it. I just want to reduce the sweetness a tad, but keep the hint of honey flavor. Thanks for all the great suggestions!

 

[david_42]

Just another angle, cut the honey malt to 4 oz.

 

[Brew_4iT]

maybe a low flocculating yeast strain??? Also I read if yeast flocculate too early the beer will be under-attenuating and sweet. Just to put another possibility out their.

 

[Poobah58]

I got a little anxious and bottled it after 10 days in primary. But the FG stayed at 1.016 for 2 days in a row, so I figured I was good to go. As far as the yeast goes, I was trying to Clone Big Sky Summer Honey, so I went out and got some yeast from them. I don't have a clue what kind of yeast it was.

It's not a bad beer, just too sweet for my taste. Some of my friends love it. I just want to reduce the sweetness a tad, but keep the hint of honey flavor. Thanks for all the great suggestions!

If you bottled after 10 days, the yeast in all probability wasn't finished. Patience my friend...

 

[CrookedTail]

Cascade aren't big alpha-acid hops, but I do love the citrus/spicy notes that they add especially in wheat beers. Assuming 5% AA (ish), 2 or 3 1oz additions (depending on what you're going for) should help balance this beer out a lot.
1oz @ 60 (bittering)
1oz @ 15 (flavor)
1oz @ flameout (optional) for the aroma

You can always reserve the honey for the last 10-15min of the boil to better utilize the bittering hops.

And, I'm curious about the yeast... what do you know about it?

Look forward to hearing how it turns out!

That's the hop schedule I use in mine. Except the 60 and 15 minute additions are Mt Hoods, and the flameout addition (I actually add it with a minute left to boil) are Centennials. Comes out awesome.