Homemade RIMS system and water filter build

[JasonO]

After doing a bunch of reading today I think think my main issues is that I was trying to run the pump wide open right after adding the grain to the mash tun. I should have let things sit for a bit and restricted the flow after the rims system. I am going to add a ball valve to the return and give things another go in a week or 2.

Looking back I had some good results with my cpvc manifold. I don't remember gaining much going to a false bottom. When I cleaned out my mash tun last night it was mostly plugged up with pieces of grain, the small cuts in the cpvc never had the issue.

-Jason

 

[itsme6582]

... I am going to add a ball valve to the return and give things another go in a week or 2...
-Jason

Looking back at your pump picture, someone should have caught this right away. You are going to want to slow the flow down. However, don't put a ball valve on your return port. You'll blow your silicone tubing. Put a ball valve on the pump outlet.

 

[Mtn_Brewer]

After doing a bunch of reading today I think think my main issues is that I was trying to run the pump wide open right after adding the grain to the mash tun. I should have let things sit for a bit and restricted the flow after the rims system. I am going to add a ball valve to the return and give things another go in a week or 2.

Looking back I had some good results with my cpvc manifold. I don't remember gaining much going to a false bottom. When I cleaned out my mash tun last night it was mostly plugged up with pieces of grain, the small cuts in the cpvc never had the issue.

-Jason

I tried to address this and other RIMS troubleshooting last week but my thread didn't get much attention. Try a slower rate and rice hulls.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/rims-system-learn-my-our-mistakes-thread-382530/

 

[JasonO]

I tried to address this and other RIMS troubleshooting last week but my thread didn't get much attention. Try a slower rate and rice hulls.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/rims-system-learn-my-our-mistakes-thread-382530/

Ouch yep we had the same exact issues! I had a solid block of grain at the bottom of my mash tun.I kept breaking it up but it was a mess of a brew day!

itsme6582, thanks for the info, good idea! I have hose clamps on everything but looking at it your idea is better, putting the valve directly after the pump makes more sense.

-Jason

 

[Mtn_Brewer]

itsme6582, thanks for the info, good idea! I have hose clamps on everything but looking at it your idea is better, putting the valve directly after the pump makes more sense.

-Jason

For magnetic propeller pumps like March pumps, restricting the outflow is the way to control the output. If you restrict the inflow, you will burn it out. It's counterintuitive but true.

 

[Weezy]

can the Marsh pumps handle a potentiometer to throttle the flow rate? (instead of varying the flow rate with the ball valve at the outlet?)

 

[Coldies]

For my RIMS set up I will recirculate my mash water run through the rims tube until I get my desired strike temp and to ensure I wont lose a prime. After I mash in I let the grain settle for at least ten minutes. I then turn on my pump with the ball valve (On the outlet side of the pump) barely open. Once I can see things are flowing and I wont be getting a stuck mash I will then flick on my element switch set at the proper mash temp. Every 2-3 minutes after that I will open the ball valve a little at a time until I'm at proper flow rate. Once you tinker with your system you will know that "Sweet Spot". I never open my ball valve more than half way though. Also, some beers depeing on the grist will vary on how much I open my ball valve.

 

[Mtn_Brewer]

can the Marsh pumps handle a potentiometer to throttle the flow rate? (instead of varying the flow rate with the ball valve at the outlet?)

I previously looked into this extensively. March 809 pumps are brushless motors (see spec sheet below) and therefore need an electronic speed control (ESC), which is rather expensive. A ball valve is way cheaper and simpler, so that's what I went with.

http://www.marchpump.com/site/files/966/112183/382444/641398/0809-0053-1400_R5.pdf
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_speed_control#section_1

If there is an engineer or electrician out there, further clarification would be appreciated .

 

[BetterSense]

It is true that brushless motors must be controlled by modifying the electronic commutation. AC synchronous motors (probably what the March pumps use, also 'brushless') don't have any commutation and spin at mains frequency, so you would have to have an in-between complicated gizmo to change the rotation frequency.

 

[Weezy]

Hmmmm...like an RC car ESC...which does just what were talking about with small brushless motors. I probably have one buried in the basement.

edit: nevermind. Forgot about voltage and amperage differences.

 

[Weezy]

in-line flow controllers (at bottom left corner of webpage)

http://stcvalve.com/Stainless_Steel_Fitting.htm?gclid=CPOfk6rAorUCFUKd4AodpnsAyg

 

[user 125772]

For my RIMS set up I will recirculate my mash water run through the rims tube until I get my desired strike temp and to ensure I wont lose a prime. After I mash in I let the grain settle for at least ten minutes. I then turn on my pump with the ball valve (On the outlet side of the pump) barely open. Once I can see things are flowing and I wont be getting a stuck mash I will then flick on my element switch set at the proper mash temp. Every 2-3 minutes after that I will open the ball valve a little at a time until I'm at proper flow rate. Once you tinker with your system you will know that "Sweet Spot". I never open my ball valve more than half way though. Also, some beers depeing on the grist will vary on how much I open my ball valve.

Coldies hit the nail on the head here ....you need to let the grain bed settle naturally before you start pulling on it with the pump. Even then, you need
to go slow with it so you don't end up compacting it and ending up with a stuck false bottom.

 

[cwi]

I previously looked into this extensively. March 809 pumps are brushless motors (see spec sheet below) and therefore need an electronic speed control (ESC), which is rather expensive. A ball valve is way cheaper and simpler, so that's what I went with.

If there is an engineer or electrician out there, further clarification would be appreciated .

It is true that brushless motors must be controlled by modifying the electronic commutation. AC synchronous motors (probably what the March pumps use, also 'brushless') don't have any commutation and spin at mains frequency, so you would have to have an in-between complicated gizmo to change the rotation frequency.

The 110 VAC March 809 pumps (quit buying the inline, get the center inlet- there I said it) have a PSC motor, and can be controlled with a 'variable fan speed controller'. They look like old school wall dimmers with the tan knob, but are specifically for ceiling fans/PSC motors. They used to be ~$20 new, but I haven't seen a price lately. I believe they are TRIAC based. I think the typical numbers touted for use with these pumps are that speed can be safely reduced by about 50%. PWM speed controllers can also be used with PSC motors, and should provide a bit more useable range than the fan speed controller. WalterAtMarchPump has a post on the subject, and gave a blessing, of sorts, to their use.

I think I remember reading that the more common/cheaper Thyristor based wall dimmers (with the same tan knob look, but not the 'pot' based ones), will also work as a PSC motor speed controller, but with a much more limited range (due to overcurrent/undervoltage issues). I has to do with the trigger points differences (I think), of the Thyristor vs. the TRIAC

That ESC wiki link isn't applicable. It was referring to 3 phase and/or DC motors, and small RC motors at that. For 3 phase motor speed control, vector VFDs are the king of the hill.

 

[JasonO]

All fixed and ready for round 2.

-Jason

 

[bmorosco]

Jason Great Build . Do you have a parts list and where you purchased things from. I see you mentioned a couple of places in your first post but I was looking for a complete parts list if you have one. Thanks

 

[JayMac]

This is awesome! How much did this addition cost you? I too would be very interested in a parts list. Wouldn't mind seeing a few more detailed pictures of the heating element in its SS enclosure. Those clamps are beautiful.

Good work!

 

[JasonO]

Hey guys, I can take some more pictures tonight and get a better parts list.

Small update as well. I used this setup for the 3rd time last weekend and I think I got it figured out. For my 14 lb grain bill I added 1 lb of rice hulls and got the flow set just right I think. At the end of the mash I have never seen wort that clear!! Also I was able to control the temp much better at the higher flow then try 2. It only took 12 minutes to raise from 150 to 168 for mashout.

Try 1: 1/2lb rice hulls no flow control = block of concrete 58% efficiency wort with stuck sparge
Try 2: No rice hulls w/ flow control = better grain bed 70 ish% efficiency semi clear wort with ok sparge
Try 3: 1lb rice hulls w/ flow control = nice grain bed 81% efficiency very clear wort with easy sparge.

 

[bmorosco]

Hey guys, I can take some more pictures tonight and get a better parts list.

Small update as well. I used this setup for the 3rd time last weekend and I think I got it figured out. For my 14 lb grain bill I added 1 lb of rice hulls and got the flow set just right I think. At the end of the mash I have never seen wort that clear!! Also I was able to control the temp much better at the higher flow then try 2. It only took 12 minutes to raise from 150 to 168 for mashout.

Try 1: 1/2lb rice hulls no flow control = block of concrete 58% efficiency wort with stuck sparge
Try 2: No rice hulls w/ flow control = better grain bed 70 ish% efficiency semi clear wort with ok sparge
Try 3: 1lb rice hulls w/ flow control = nice grain bed 81% efficiency very clear wort with easy sparge.

That looks fantastic the clarity is unreal!!

 

[blaster_54738]

Hey guys, I can take some more pictures tonight and get a better parts list.

Small update as well. I used this setup for the 3rd time last weekend and I think I got it figured out. For my 14 lb grain bill I added 1 lb of rice hulls and got the flow set just right I think. At the end of the mash I have never seen wort that clear!! Also I was able to control the temp much better at the higher flow then try 2. It only took 12 minutes to raise from 150 to 168 for mashout.

Try 1: 1/2lb rice hulls no flow control = block of concrete 58% efficiency wort with stuck sparge
Try 2: No rice hulls w/ flow control = better grain bed 70 ish% efficiency semi clear wort with ok sparge
Try 3: 1lb rice hulls w/ flow control = nice grain bed 81% efficiency very clear wort with easy sparge.

Granted I know it depends on the rig but where did you have your valves set? I'm brewing with mine the first time tomorrow and want to get an idea

 

[JasonO]

Here's a better parts list. The inlet and outlet on my mash ton are both 1/2" barb. If I think of anything else I'll add it here. I'll add some more pictures in the next post.

Controller:

1x Radio Shack 270-1809 project box
2x Radio Shack 275-021 120vac Switch
1x Mypin T Series PIC controller w/40 amp SS Relay (Ebay)
1x Radio Shack CB/Ham Mic Plug Female
1x Radio Shack 4PIN DIN PNL Jack Male
1x Leviton R57-16352-0GS 20 Amp 120vac outlet

Other: I had the assorted wire and crimp connectors for the internals already. I added a old CPU heatsick to the SS Relay. Also the 120vac input plug I gutted from an old computer power supply.​

RIMS Tube

From Brewers Hardware:

TWS16 16" Stainless Steel Thermowell
RIMS15 1.5" Tri Clover RIMS Tube
TC15F10NPSL 1.5" Tri Clover X 1" NPS Fitting
TPPT100TC153 Pt100 RTD Temperature Sensor in 1.5" Flange 3" penetration
TC15B12 1"/1.5" Tri Clover X 1/2" Hose Barb
TC15MOUNT Mounting Bracket for 1.5" RIMS Tube
TUBES12X34 Silicone Tubing 1/2"​

Chugger Pumps:

SS Inline pump​

Home Depot:

Camco 4500 watt element ( I think this is the part Model # 15184 Store SKU # 258184)
1x 1/2" NPT Brass Ball valve
1x Watts 1/2 in. x 1/2 in. Brass Barb x FIP Adapter
1x Watts 1/2 in. x 1/2 in. Brass Barb x MIP Adapter
6x 3/8 - 7/8 Stainless hose clamps
​

Other: Wood was left over from another project.​

-Jason

 

[JasonO]

Valve position (aprox)

Marker for reference

Heater connection (still want to change this)

-Jason

 

[blaster_54738]

Good idea on the marker reference. Do you have the mast tun valve open the same amount?

 

[JasonO]

Mash ton valve is open all the way. Once I'm done with the heater I break the connection before the pump and use that valve like normal to control the sparge.

-Jason

 

[steven_b]

Here's a better parts list.


RIMS Tube

From Brewers Hardware:

TWS16 16" Stainless Steel Thermowell
RIMS15 1.5" Tri Clover RIMS Tube
TC15F10NPSL 1.5" Tri Clover X 1" NPS Fitting
TPPT100TC153 Pt100 RTD Temperature Sensor in 1.5" Flange 3" penetration
TC15B12 1"/1.5" Tri Clover X 1/2" Hose Barb
TC15MOUNT Mounting Bracket for 1.5" RIMS Tube
TUBES12X34 Silicone Tubing 1/2"​

-Jason

Thanks for build sheet Jason.

Quick question Jason, I am not seeing the "TPPT100TC153 Pt100 RTD Temperature Sensor in 1.5" Flange 3" on the Brewers Hardware website. Anyone know which sensor I should get from Brewers Hardware? I will be using the same Ebay controller as Jason. Thank in advance!

 

[JasonO]

Thanks for build sheet Jason.

Quick question Jason, I am not seeing the "TPPT100TC153 Pt100 RTD Temperature Sensor in 1.5" Flange 3" on the Brewers Hardware website. Anyone know which sensor I should get from Brewers Hardware? I will be using the same Ebay controller as Jason. Thank in advance!

Ouch, maybe they don't have them anymore. Doing a quick check on their site could you get the thermowell and add the probe to it?

https://www.brewershardware.com/TWTCCAP3.html

Maybe it's worth sending them an email and asking if they are getting more in with the probe already installed.

-Jason

 

[JasonO]

Hey guys small update, I've done a few more brews with this current system and it's going well. Each time I have been over 81% efficiency!! This is so much better then before, 71% max. I would not second guess the purchase in a second. Each time I've had clear wort without a vorlauf. The only thing I need to work on or adjust is the pull up to 168 degrees for mashout. It's been kind of slow and I have cut is short at 163 or so once or twice. I think it's due to the controller cutting out as to not go too far over the set temp. I will be playing around again soon to see if I can get this sorted.

-Jason

 

[adman]

Steven,

I built a brewershardware RIMS tube for use with a PID, so I used the same PT100 sensor that Jason does. My sensor ended up malfunctioning, and I can verify that brewershardware no longer stocks a PT100 sensor with the tri clamp fitting. I ended up going with the triclamp sensor over at auber. It was basically twice as much money as the brewers hardware one, but I got it with the fancy "deluxe" cable, which is pretty damn nice.

 

[Flomaster]

Hey guys small update, I've done a few more brews with this current system and it's going well. Each time I have been over 81% efficiency!! This is so much better then before, 71% max. I would not second guess the purchase in a second. Each time I've had clear wort without a vorlauf. The only thing I need to work on or adjust is the pull up to 168 degrees for mashout. It's been kind of slow and I have cut is short at 163 or so once or twice. I think it's due to the controller cutting out as to not go too far over the set temp. I will be playing around again soon to see if I can get this sorted.

-Jason

I have seen a thread or two about wrapping heat tape around the outside of the tube for mash out purposes. its basically doubling the heating being done in the tube by super heating the tub itself.

-=Jason=-

 

[beergutbrew]

JasonO,
Did you build your own thermocouple wiring?

 

[steven_b]

How's everything working long term? I am just finishing up my system right now. Hopefully to do a water test in the next day or so.