homebrew taste........(where does it come from!)

[betarhoalphadelta]

I've been thinking of an experiment... One of my coworkers is also a homebrewer, and is in my homebrew club. A year ago, I gave him the recipe for my Gose, and he brewed it. Last weekend, he and I went to a beer tasting and I brought along a fresh batch, and his response when he tasted it was "wow, this is a lot better than when I brewed it!" Obviously there are a number of differences in our brew processes, but one of the key bits is that he doesn't have temp control for his fermentation.

Luckily, my brew system will allow me to brew 15 gallons of wort, but I can only ferment 10 gallons at a time. So I think I might get him to come by at some point, I'll brew 15 gallons on my system, run 5 gallons off into his fermenter for him (and 10 for me), and we'll then each ferment them on our own. I'd love to see *exactly* what difference, working with identical wort, the temperature control makes. I'm betting that piece alone will be sizable...

 

[Denny]

So Brother Denny, whatcha hiding from us?

Only my past, buddy, only my past.....

 

[jonmohno]

I think FWH might fit into getting rid of that "homebrew taste". Really though,seems like it gives it an extra sumpin sumpin. Secrets out,BAM! Where there are internets there are lots of spilled beans. And misinformation. Does your beer suffer from homebrewtaste? , well try FWH its big,its smooth,its refined its a cure all, all for only $.99.Never again homebrew taste. Why suffer those homebrewy blahs. Act now.
Sorry,Im a big Jerk. I like to put the record in Scratch. All said in the voice of Rodey Dangerfield, of course.

 

[MaddBaggins]

This is utter BS....

But what arcane wisdom do you think folks are holding back? Ritual sacrifice? Goat worshipping? Secret magic fairy powder only available to disciples of ninkasi?

This ain't brain surgery, it's cooking....

So, you're saying I can stop the goat sacrifices? I was a firm believer that that was the reason my beers taste so good.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

This ain't brain surgery, it's cooking....

This is right in itself a great point. Anyone can buy a recipe book. But cooking well is a matter of technique. And it's not any one secret, it's amassing the experience to know when, how, and why to do things certain ways, and practicing the skills needed to do those things on a regular basis.

My wife is a FAR better cook than I am. Is it because she's smarter than me, or that she's keeping secrets from me? Of course not. It's simply something that she's spent years learning (from her grandmothers and on her own) and has had years and years of practice. Could I become as good of a cook as her? I think so, but it would really take a lot of study and a lot of practice that I don't really have the bandwidth to take on. Besides, as long as she keeps feeding me the awesome food I get every night, I'm certainly not going to get in her way!

 

[HeavyKettleBrewing]

Yep.This is my "blinged out" fancy smancy brew rig, and I still manage to pull in the occasional medal, and have a few recipes on here that folks seem to really like and brew.

Please note that that's a FIVE gallon cooler mash tun, for all you guys who think you can't brew decent beer in a 5 gallon cooler. The one that I've used since I started doing all grain, and have put around 600 gallons of wort through, if not more.

Mines orange. I get pretty good efficiency from my 5 gal mlt but don't know how I will ever get over 1.070. Doesn't matter much, 6% is good enough. Sorry OT...

Back to the subject, I noticed much difference in my extract batches but a more balanced and worthy beer when switching to AG. I have read the "twang" word thrown out a couple times. Has anyone experienced this "twang"? I must admit, my beers get better as I refine my process but was the "twang" a matter of being a greenhorn or a matter of process? The flavor of my beers changed dramatically almost overnight when switching to AG. One moment of clarity came when I bought a chest freezer to control ferm temps. I agree with most everyone about refining your process but concentrating on one variable each session helped me understand what I did right/wrong and how it influenced the taste. My next variable is water.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Back to the subject, I noticed much difference in my extract batches but a more balanced and worthy beer when switching to AG. I have read the "twang" word thrown out a couple times. Has anyone experienced this "twang"? I must admit, my beers get better as I refine my process but was the "twang" a matter of being a greenhorn or a matter of process? The flavor of my beers changed dramatically almost overnight when switching to AG. One moment of clarity came when I bought a chest freezer to control ferm temps. I agree with most everyone about refining your process but concentrating on one variable each session helped me understand what I did right/wrong and how it influenced the taste. My next variable is water.

I think the "twang" is a matter of being a newbie. I started to see it go away as I was making the transition to AG, but I think that was more due to other process improvements I was making, not the fact that it was AG. I keep telling myself I'll make an extract batch just to check it out, one of these days, but I look at the cost of DME and think better of it!

Controlling ferment temps is huge. I think it's the most important variable I've encountered.

One thing I want to try is proper oxygenation of wort, though. That's my next variable. I've done pretty well regularly placing in competitions, but never hit the upper echelon. I'm wondering if that's the "over the hump" change I need.

 

[HeavyKettleBrewing]

I think the "twang" is a matter of being a newbie. I started to see it go away as I was making the transition to AG, but I think that was more due to other process improvements I was making, not the fact that it was AG. I keep telling myself I'll make an extract batch just to check it out, one of these days, but I look at the cost of DME and think better of it!

Controlling ferment temps is huge. I think it's the most important variable I've encountered.

One thing I want to try is proper oxygenation of wort, though. That's my next variable. I've done pretty well regularly placing in competitions, but never hit the upper echelon. I'm wondering if that's the "over the hump" change I need.

I'm with you on oxygenating. Trying no cost fixes this weekend. Going to brew with bottled water and compare taste. You raise a good point. I may try an LME version of one of my recipes. Yes, extract is a bit more but all in the name of science. Switching to AG was a natural progression as I am in love with this hobby. I may have changed up so many variables at once, I will never uncover the reason behind the "twang" unless I brew an extract batch. Cheers!

 

[librewer]

Interesting stuff here. If I may (slightly off-topic)... I've noticed an off-flavor underlying some of the "Micro-Brew" beer's I've tried commercially. Specifically some of the IPA's I've recently had. Something I don't get from my homebrew. It's hard to say, but its almost like a yeast flavor. Maybe from sitting on the shelf too long (should check dates)? Then I'll grab a pint of my own IPA and this underlying "off-flavor" is gone. Maybe it does have to do with freshness. Once I got my own process down, smoothed out, following the points listed by Revvy a few pages back, and started keeping things simple most everything I've brewed now seems as good or better than many commercial examples of the styles I've made. Brewing is so much fun!

 

[gmcapone]

I'm not sure if it was brought up, but could this taste be chlorine from tap water supply? If you and your buddy use tap and don't treat the water I'm guessing this is the common factor in the homebrews you taste in your area.

 

[CidCitrus]

Everybody knows the secret is facial hair.

 

[heferly]

Everybody knows the secret is facial hair.

Do you have to mash that?

 

[CidCitrus]

Nope, just harvest the wild yeast from it.

 

[mjohnson]

Mines orange. I get pretty good efficiency from my 5 gal mlt but don't know how I will ever get over 1.070. Doesn't matter much, 6% is good enough. Sorry OT...

Back to the subject, I noticed much difference in my extract batches but a more balanced and worthy beer when switching to AG. I have read the "twang" word thrown out a couple times. Has anyone experienced this "twang"? I must admit, my beers get better as I refine my process but was the "twang" a matter of being a greenhorn or a matter of process? The flavor of my beers changed dramatically almost overnight when switching to AG. One moment of clarity came when I bought a chest freezer to control ferm temps. I agree with most everyone about refining your process but concentrating on one variable each session helped me understand what I did right/wrong and how it influenced the taste. My next variable is water.

I think the reduction in "twang" when people switch to AG has a lot to do with increased focus on process and fresher ingredients. Correlation vs causation IMO.

My beers stopped tasting like "homebrew" when I started paying more attention to mash pH (following the water primer), pitching the right amount of yeast, oxygenated with real O2, and controlled fermentation temps.

Its hard for me to say which had the most effect since all of those happened over a relatively short period of time. But man, it made a lot of difference. I love taking a drink and having that gut reaction of "I'd totally pay for this beer." Doesn't always happen, but its happening more and more.

 

[HeavyKettleBrewing]

I love taking a drink and having that gut reaction of "I'd totally pay for this beer." Doesn't always happen, but its happening more and more.

Yes!!! It is second only to sex. A close third is holding your piss for an hour and then finally letting go when you get to a chance. Ever stand in a port-a-potty line at an NFL game tailgate and you will know what I mean. The best is drinking one of these stellar brews while having sex!!! YES!! to the second power! Sorry, fading back in from dream sequence.

When making the switch to AG, I was much more attentive in what I was doing. I think that Revvy hit it on the head. BTW, where is the OP now? Hopefully he is making better beer. I know I will!

 

[topmalt]

i'm sure he is.......

 

[WhiskeyR]

I had a "homebrewed" flavor in all of the beers I brewed with Ozarka natural spring water. A buddy picked up distilled for a partial mash by accident and that beer did not have the flavor. A couple more attempts later and a side by side experiment proved that the water was the culprit. (The LME provides all the nutrients needed by the yeast except zinc.)

Now when I brew AG, I'll use distilled water with some salts to create the profile I need (honestly I usually just buy a pack of burton water salts from Austin Homebrew and use that). If I brew partial mashes, I just use straight distilled water. Behind controlling fermentation temps, this made the biggest improvement to my beer.

This is interesting. I brew extract kits with steeping grains. I use tap water for the initial 2.5 gallon boil and then use Ozarka Spring Water.

I get a slight background taste that is something like what the OP describes. Not something bad, but an element I can taste in every beer I brew that makes them somewhat similar. I've always wondered about it. Maybe it could be the water?

I'd love to just use tap water, but it's so much easier just to throw one of those Ozarka's in the freezer while you're brewing so the top-off water helps get the temp down.

I may try something different next time and see what happens.

 

[The_Dog_42]

I can get all technical and stuff, but it's too early for that, so let me just say that when brewing all grain, you need some salts in the water to help extract some of the yeast nutrients. So straight distilled water won't work.

However, if you use extract, it is supposed to contain pretty much all the nutrients the yeast need. The only thing it doesn't have is zinc. So if you like using something from out of the freezer and because you do partial mash (extract w/ steeping grains), grab the distilled water instead of the spring water. It can't hurt anything.

 

[BobBailey]

I know somebody has to know what im talking about. what is the homebrew taste. It's not any type of infection. Ive tasted other old homebrewers beer that doesnt seem to have it and they wont really let their secret out. Kegging seems to have a little less of the homebrew taste. water is fine. I do all grain sparge batching (no extract) and have a freezer i ferment in so the temp isnt all over the place. I am extremely clean and sanitary. Can anybody explain or expand on the subject..........

I think I know what you're talking about. My guess is young beer. It seems as if the last few beers out of a keg are great, but before that, not so great. Be sure the beer is fully fermented and allow a couple of extra weeks cleanup time. Wait 30 days after kegging to try it.

Bob

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

I think I know what you're talking about. My guess is young beer. It seems as if the last few beers out of a keg are great, but before that, not so great. Be sure the beer is fully fermented and allow a couple of extra weeks cleanup time. Wait 30 days after kegging to try it.

Bob

Disagree. There are plenty of brewers on this site (incl. me) that can go grain-to-glass in 2-3 weeks and not have this "homebrew flavor" that OP describes.

 

[BobBailey]

Disagree. There are plenty of brewers on this site (incl. me) that can go grain-to-glass in 2-3 weeks and not have this "homebrew flavor" that OP describes.

That may be true of many low octane brews, But I would bet most of them would be improved with some patience. Also, some of us are more critical than others.

Bob

 

[pohldogg]

While I agree that age can help, any off flavors that need to age out are the result of bad process. With the correct pitch rate, oxygenation, and ferm temp a beer should taste food as soon as it's finished. Aging should only be icing on the cake. Practice, experience, and attention to process remove the "homebrew" taste.

 

[mjohnson]

While I agree that age can help, any off flavors that need to age out are the result of bad process. With the correct pitch rate, oxygenation, and ferm temp a beer should taste food as soon as it's finished. Aging should only be icing on the cake. Practice, experience, and attention to process remove the "homebrew" taste.

+1

This is my experience as well (at least with modest gravity beers). And I'm quite critical. My beers used to taste better after a 4 week primary until I got the process down like pohldogg described.

 

[Yooper]

That may be true of many low octane brews, But I would bet most of them would be improved with some patience. Also, some of us are more critical than others.

Bob

I'm pretty critical, but I enjoy most of my IPAs and all of my APAs about 3 weeks from brewday without any sort of "homebrew" taste.

 

[BobBailey]

+1

This is my experience as well (at least with modest gravity beers). And I'm quite critical. My beers used to taste better after a 4 week primary until I got the process down like pohldogg described.

No argument there. I do like the icing on the cake tho

bob

 

[dallasdb]

I'd love to just use tap water, but it's so much easier just to throw one of those Ozarka's in the freezer while you're brewing so the top-off water helps get the temp down.

Why don't you just keep the bottle and fill it with tap?

That way you can still toss it in the freezer and get the temp down.

 

[BoomerSoonerBrewer]

I made this IPA... one of my first beers and I'm a total noob. I think it tastes great, almost like a Torpedo IPA from Sierra Nevada... and I notice zero home brew "twang" and zero off flavors. It's partial mash! It should taste a notch above a Cooper's kit, no? Should be full of twang and "home brew flavor".. only it isnt. The key? 18 days in primary, 18 in bottles and full head retention, lovely aroma and great flavor.

malt & fermentables
% LB OZ Malt or Fermentable ppg °L
41% 4 0 American Two-row Pale 37 1 ~
33% 3 3 Briess Amber Unhopped LME 36 10 ~
21% 2 0 Marris Otter (Crisp) 38 4 ~
5% 0 8 Crystal 40L 34 40 ~
Batch size: 5.0 gallons


Original Gravity
1.052 measured
(1.059 estimated)
Final Gravity
1.014 / 3.6° Plato
(1.012 to 1.015)
Color
9° SRM / 17° EBC
(Gold to Copper)
Mash Efficiency
75%

hops
use time oz variety form aa
boil 60 mins 1.0 Chinook pellet 11.8
boil 30 mins 1.0 Cascade pellet 6.2
boil 20 mins 1.0 Cascade pellet 6.2
Boil: 4.0 avg gallons for 60 minutes


Bitterness
62.2 IBU / 12 HBU
ƒ: Tinseth
BU:GU
1.05

yeast
California Ale
ale yeast in liquid form with high flocculation and 77% attenuation


Alcohol
6.0% ABV / 5% ABW
Calories
194 per 12 oz.


/takes nuts up off the table

 

[topmalt]

can't the whole twang or home brew taste depend on someones pallet?

 

[Chia]

My guess is you're tasting yeast.

I make 10g batches and keg. I have filtered 5g and not filtered the other 5g and the taste difference was pretty big. I discovered that I really don't like the taste of yeast.

How did you filter it? never really thought about this, but now you have me interested

 

[jonmohno]

can't the whole twang or home brew taste depend on someones pallet?

I think so,so many interpetations can be misinterpetated. Homebrew taste seems to me maybe they are interperting more bottle conditioned yeast style.Could even be the 'green'? To me,it seems just the yeast. I wouldnt even single out the local municipal water supply.