Homebrew Store in a dry county

[PodunkPorter]

I want to open a homebrew shop, but in a dry county. Part of me wants to do this simply for the fact that our county is dry, and there are many folks in the area involved in home brewing, but the closest supply store is an hour away! So it seems logical to start one here in town. Am I missing something? I'm not selling alcohol

 

[IslandLizard]

You may encounter some potential licensing issues, you'll never know what they'll throw at you. They're still dry for a reason (medieval politics).

Aside from that:

• Do you have the resources for such a venture?
• How many homebrewers can you possibly serve (= your target market)?

 

[PodunkPorter]

Yeah the college here is church of Christ. So anti beer it hurts, like if your a student and you have a beer you get the boot. And they buy all the liscenses for the area so nobody can serve alcohol. The area is full of restaurants, and the city supports many well paying jobs, and I personally know many Brewers, and the people here have an open mind to beer, just not the one extremely rich group of people that own the college. Are there alcohol liscensing issues involved with selling grains and hops and yeast? Is the equipment considered paraphernalia? Haha

 

[MVKTR2]

Face it, subjects of the federal, various state, and local authoritarians are not free people, they are subjects as exhibited by the need to beg for permits and licenses in order to feed yourself/pursue happiness. That said you need to know your state's laws. In AL for instance it is illegal to possess alcohol making equipment/ingredients in dry areas, in MS no such restrictions apply.

As for me I wouldn't fight city hall, they have guns and a proven track record of thousands of years to prove they're willing to do whatever it takes to inflict their will upon the innocent.

 

[PodunkPorter]

😓

 

[unionrdr]

Well if you can prove the owners of the college are indeed buying up all the licences for nefarious intentions, then file a class action suit. Make the state/county change or they get das boot.

 

[PodunkPorter]

Unfortunately they are the state/county, many of the members of the college board, are also heavily involved in the state, like 60% of the county officials are also on the college board. This lawsuit has been shot down multiple times. Is it really so wrong to sell some grains!?!?

 

[DarkStarNJ]

If your serious the first thing you should do is speak to a lawyer familiar with the issue.

1) Figure out if brewing your own beer in a dry county/town is legal or not. (If it is then you could be implicated as an "Accessory" or other nonsense. you would likely have to be very careful about how you presented your items so they were only being advertised for legal uses.

2) Figure out if brewing equipment and ingredients can be sold in a dry county.

 

[unionrdr]

Unfortunately they are the state/county, many of the members of the college board, are also heavily involved in the state, like 60% of the county officials are also on the college board. This lawsuit has been shot down multiple times. Is it really so wrong to sell some grains!?!?

Then throw the separation of church & state card. Could constitute conflict of interest at the constitutional level.

 

[flars]

Yes, take it to federal court.

 

[PodunkPorter]

The state law is no more than 100 gallons of beer, and 100 gallons of wine per person per year. So yes, it is legal to brew here, just not serve to the public

 

[bigplunkett]

Is it dry u said the colloge buys up the licences? Or is it dry because of the monopoly? What state are you in?

 

[Teromous]

It is legal to homebrew and sell homebrewing supplies in your state. The most they could try to do is prevent you from starting a business by other means. They are buying up liquor licenses but that has nothing to do with the law. It is a strong arm and fear tactic. You may not be able to purchase a liquor license to run a bar where you live but there obviously isn't a law against it because they are selling licenses. You don't need a liquor license to sell grains. The only time I have ever heard of homebrewing stores getting raided is when they ran a business in a state where homebrewing was outlawed. What you will probably face is not an outright denial but some red tape when you go to start your business. I say go for it.

 

[Yooper]

It is legal to homebrew and sell homebrewing supplies in your state. The most they could try to do is prevent you from starting a business by other means. They are buying up liquor licenses but that has nothing to do with the law. It is a strong arm and fear tactic. You may not be able to purchase a liquor license to run a bar where you live but there obviously isn't a law against it because they are selling licenses. You don't need a liquor license to sell grains. The only time I have ever heard of homebrewing stores getting raided is when they ran a business in a state where homebrewing was outlawed. What you will probably face is not an outright denial but some red tape when you go to start your business. I say go for it.

But he said it is a dry county. Many counties in AR are dry, no doubt about it. That means no bars at all, no liquor licenses to serve the public are sold.

Homebrewing at the federal and state level is legal; I have no idea if it is legal in every county in AR.

 

[Brewsncrabs]

I want to open a homebrew shop, but in a dry county. Part of me wants to do this simply for the fact that our county is dry, QUOTE]

 

[Brewsncrabs]

Sorry for the double post. See above. That's no reason to open a business. Find another area to open shop or find another business venture.

 

[Brewernaut51]

I'm thinking you need to find a lawyer who can tell you what roadblocks you're going to run into. If there are enough homebrewers in the area you could be sitting on a gold mine.

For the longest time the only LHBSs in my area were two liquor stores and a nursery/garden supplies shop (weird right?). I often thought of opening a shop. Some one beat me to it. They said business was so good they were thinking about leasing the suite next-door and expanding the shop. Gotta say, I love having a real homebrew shop 15 min away.

Anyway, what I'm saying is if there really are a lot of homebrewers in the area chances are some one else has the same idea. If you've got a plan find a lawyer asap and get it in motion.

 

[PodunkPorter]

Brewsncrabs, you must be working for the college. Brewernaut, this was my thinking, and why I think it would be a legitimate business venture, and sweet little way to show the town hot to relax and have a homebrew ��

 

[Teromous]

But he said it is a dry county. Many counties in AR are dry, no doubt about it. That means no bars at all, no liquor licenses to serve the public are sold.

Homebrewing at the federal and state level is legal; I have no idea if it is legal in every county in AR.

I think it's a misunderstanding. If you read his second post he mentions that they buy all of the licenses. If it was truly a dry county these licenses wouldn't even be sold, right? I'm not a lawyer and I don't claim to be an expert on the law or anything but this entire situation reeks of corruption...

 

[Yooper]

I think it's a misunderstanding. If you read his second post he mentions that they buy all of the licenses. If it was truly a dry county these licenses wouldn't even be sold, right? I'm not a lawyer and I don't claim to be an expert on the law or anything but this entire situation reeks of corruption...

True, but a LOT of counties in AR are dry. So I'm not sure if the county the OP talking about is truly a dry county by law, or by simply not having bars/liquor stores. If it's truly a dry county by law, and homebrewing is not permitted by law, that's a different story than either a dry county by law where homebrewing IS permitted (50/50 or less I'd guess), or a dry county simply because there aren't any permits available if they are "bought up" (by fact, but not by law).

Edit- googled it, and White County (if that is where the OP lives) is a dry county, by law.

 

[PodunkPorter]

No guys, dry counties sell a certain amount of liquor liscenses. The restaurants usually buy these(in a normal town) and only a couple of places serve alcohol at their restaurants in the county. When you go to these places you have to sign a membership card to buy the alcohol. But yes, it is a DRY county

 

[PodunkPorter]

It is white county, and it is and always has been dry, by law, but because of said college. They keep it that way with an iron fist and some convenient contacts. Most dry counties sell a couple liquor liscenses so some restaurants can serve beer or wine

 

[Yooper]

It is white county, and it is and always has been dry, by law, but because of said college. They keep it that way with an iron fist and some convenient contacts. Most dry counties sell a couple liquor liscenses so some restaurants can serve beer or wine

If homebrewing is legal in White County (I have no idea, except I know the VFW can sell beer to its members legally there- I spent/spend time in Arkansas each winter while going to Texas so know very few things about most of the state but have some experience with going through those dry counties ), then you can definitely have your homebrew store legally. As you've acknowledged, though, they might make it tough on you to get a lease and do business, so if you are able to do it I'd suggest making sure everything is always 100% legal (ie, no 'samples' at the store).

 

[Brewsncrabs]

No I don't work for the college. Just seems it would be very difficult to present a business plan to banks and county commissioners who are the same people who want keep alcohol out of the area.

 

[slym2none]

Yeah, but money talks... if his business can bring in enough tax revenue, it might be difficult for "them" to say no.

 

[Brewsncrabs]

Very valid point. Hopefully the bankers aren't college people too. We have the same issue of buying up licenses in a township near me. The anabaptists would pool their money together. Finally a hotel was able to buy one.

 

[MattyIce]

Sounds like a miserable place!

I would imagine that your biggest hurdle will be the politics. Around here, the city governments are supposedly
worse to deal with than the state TABC. If you are serious about doing this, you may want to test the waters of local public and governmental opinion.

As far as I know, you do not need to be 21 to purchase homebrew ingredients. People in areas like that may see this as you supplying the local college kids with booze ingredients while circumventing the "dry county" restrictions.

 

[MannyEdwards]

I have never figured out when I gave someone else the power to regulate what I ingest. Please, open your store. Push back.

 

[MaxStout]

No guys, dry counties sell a certain amount of liquor liscenses. The restaurants usually buy these(in a normal town) and only a couple of places serve alcohol at their restaurants in the county. When you go to these places you have to sign a membership card to buy the alcohol. But yes, it is a DRY county

Based on what you stated here, a "dry" county means a limited number of licenses are issued, and there are restrictions on how the licensee may serve alcohol. Thus, it's not "dry" in the strictest sense of the term, just that the number of liquor licenses and the means to use them is tightly restricted. That the religious-based college snaps them all up does not change the fact that the county government still issues some licenses. So, there is precedent--the county does issue permits to allow some alcohol to be served.

That being said, you are not planning to be engaged in the business of serving alcohol. Unless the definition of "alcoholic beverage" in the county's statute includes the selling of ingredients/equipment for making alcoholic beverages, your LHBS should fall outside of the scope of the statute.

However, the county could find other ways to block your proposed business by refusing construction and tax permits, using zoning laws, etc. If the old boy's club doesn't want you to set up shop, they may do everything in their power to keep it from happening.

Find an Arkansas attorney who practices law in this field. You might have to search outside your community to find one, maybe to Little Rock or some other city in the state. Contact your state's Bar Association to start.

 

[Yooper]

Based on what you stated here, a "dry" county means a limited number of licenses are issued, and there are restrictions on how the licensee may serve alcohol. Thus, it's not "dry" in the strictest sense of the term, just that the number of liquor licenses and the means to use them is tightly restricted. That the religious-based college snaps them all up does not change the fact that the county government still issues some licenses. So, there is precedent--the county does issue permits to allow some alcohol to be served.

That being said, you are not planning to be engaged in the business of serving alcohol. Unless the definition of "alcoholic beverage" in the county's statute includes the selling of ingredients/equipment for making alcoholic beverages, your LHBS should fall outside of the scope of the statute.

However, the county could find other ways to block your proposed business by refusing construction and tax permits, using zoning laws, etc. If the old boy's club doesn't want you to set up shop, they may do everything in their power to keep it from happening.

Find an Arkansas attorney who practices law in this field. You might have to search outside your community to find one, maybe to Little Rock or some other city in the state. Contact your state's Bar Association to start.

Not really. There are no "liquor licenses" issued in the way you mean. A couple of private clubs can serve alcohol- like the VFW. I don't think there is any restaurant or public business in Searcy that has a liquor license, and there is no availability in gas stations or stores for the purchase of alcohol. Private clubs can do so, but it's not a liquor license in the way most of us know. I have bought beer in my dinner (I think?) in Lonoke, but that probably is because of the large military population in the area so maybe they voted that wet or semi-wet. East of there, and to the north, is all dry.

We don't spend much time in the area, preferring western and northwestern AR for more reasons than just this- but this is an example of the weird Bible belt laws and behavior.

Interestingly, there is a HUGE sex shop in a small town (I think on 67) just inside the AR line from Missouri. You can't buy a beer for the next four counties, but you can buy a butt plug or dildo (I imagine, I've never been inside!). That makes me laugh every single time we pass by. Alcohol is forbidden, but sex toys are not. Of course, it's a 5 minute drive to MO from there, so you can get both pretty easily- if you had a mind to.

Sorry to take your thread off topic, OP. It's a tough place to be, but if you follow the letter of the law and have a great attorney, it might happen for you!

 

[Owly055]

The sane approch that will not promote conflict, is to open an entirely different business and once established slip in the home brew supplies.
I'd suggest opening up a store offering adults books, paraphenial, and guns and ammo right between the church and the elementary school, and using it for a "cover", gradually slipping in some grains, hops, etc. without making any fuss about it. When locals see your customers leaving with odd shaped packages, they will naturally assume them to be anatomically correct sex toys or assault rifles.
Eventually they will get on to you and realize you are selling brewing supplies, but they will have no grounds to stop you..... You already have your license, and the church elders you deal homosexual and BDSM porn to in secret, will make sure you are not bothered by the council. Hopefully by then, you will know that deacon x and deacon y engage in sodomy, deacon z does his best work on his knees, and deacon q likes to tie children up and abuse them........... The hipocrites will move heaven and earth to keep from being exposed!!


H.W.

 

[MaxStout]

The sane approch that will not promote conflict, is to open an entirely different business and once established slip in the home brew supplies.
I'd suggest opening up a store offering adults books, paraphenial, and guns and ammo right between the church and the elementary school, and using it for a "cover", gradually slipping in some grains, hops, etc. without making any fuss about it. When locals see your customers leaving with odd shaped packages, they will naturally assume them to be anatomically correct sex toys or assault rifles.
Eventually they will get on to you and realize you are selling brewing supplies, but they will have no grounds to stop you..... You already have your license, and the church elders you deal homosexual and BDSM porn to in secret, will make sure you are not bothered by the council. Hopefully by then, you will know that deacon x and deacon y engage in sodomy, deacon z does his best work on his knees, and deacon q likes to tie children up and abuse them........... The hipocrites will move heaven and earth to keep from being exposed!!


H.W.

 

[Yooper]

What makes me laugh is that my husband had never heard of a "dry county" or "blue laws" before.

Half of my family is from New Orleans, so we often traveled the south. I'm old enough to remember "colored drinking fountains", so we're talking a very long time and travels going back to the early 60s.

Anyway, when I'd travel, there were always dry counties and my parents would leave us kids in the motel and go off to a wet county. That would get them arrested now, but anyway...................I was totally used to the idea, and expected it. Jim Crow is still alive in many areas of the south.

Then Bob and I started driving to South Texas each winter. He was shocked to find that in NW Arkansas, not only could we not buy beer on Sunday mornings, we couldn't buy beer period. Or any alcohol. He thought I was kidding when I brought my "Emergency Arkansas Pack" (but it works in other states as well- AR is just one was always stop in, and spend time in).

Anyway, "dry counties" are no joke. There are work-arounds (moonshiners for one know all of the ways to get around the law), but this would be a very difficult task without the support of the big shots in the community. I'd seriously consult a lawyer or two, and plan on it being a difficult road.

 

[Paps]

Arkansas has many a weird law.
Dry county in some areas basically mean "no carry out" sales.
Fortunately one does not need a liqour license to sell grain/hops.
However if you try to open up a "hoembrew shop" they can and will do everything in their power to keep you from having a store or shutting it down once you get it. Therefore it would be wise to open a shop not advertised as `homebrew shop` but some other form of business and have grains/hops mixed in with the rest of the inventory. If you really do know a lot of homebrewers then they will find out via word of mouth. Also a benefit to this would having extra sales not reliant on brew stuff sales as let's face it......selling grain at 2 bux a pound might not cover your rent. The closest LHBS to me also is a hydroponic store and they have told me that the hydro side keeps them afloat in the springtime when homebrew sales are low.

Good luck in your venture.

 

[Brewernaut51]

What makes me laugh is that my husband had never heard of a "dry county" or "blue laws" before.

Half of my family is from New Orleans, so we often traveled the south. I'm old enough to remember "colored drinking fountains", so we're talking a very long time and travels going back to the early 60s.

Anyway, when I'd travel, there were always dry counties and my parents would leave us kids in the motel and go off to a wet county. That would get them arrested now, but anyway...................I was totally used to the idea, and expected it. Jim Crow is still alive in many areas of the south.

Then Bob and I started driving to South Texas each winter. He was shocked to find that in NW Arkansas, not only could we not buy beer on Sunday mornings, we couldn't buy beer period. Or any alcohol. He thought I was kidding when I brought my "Emergency Arkansas Pack" (but it works in other states as well- AR is just one was always stop in, and spend time in).

Anyway, "dry counties" are no joke. There are work-arounds (moonshiners for one know all of the ways to get around the law), but this would be a very difficult task without the support of the big shots in the community. I'd seriously consult a lawyer or two, and plan on it being a difficult road.

I never knew about them either until I started traveling for work 10 years or so ago. Sometimes we had to drive 45 min or more just to get hard stuff to take back to the motel beer was a little easier to get but not much. That sucked after working a 12 hr shift. We really stocked up on our runs. I want to say that wasn't even that far south either. Might have been southern Ohio if I remember right.

 

[unionrdr]

No dry counties in southern Ohio that I remember from working down there.

 

[thatfatbastard]

How far is it to the next "wet" county? Open up a shop right on the county line closest to the main population center of the "dry" county.

I opened an LHBS earlier this year (just about exactly 6 months ago, actually) and I have customers that drive for over an hour to get to me. Some from several counties away.