Homebrew ROI?

[HB_brewer]

As a newish home brewer/engineer/guy that loves to spend money on cool stuff, I was just wondering how much you guys think you have spent on brew kettles, carboys, fancy ferment chambers, kegs, keezers, etc and how many bottles of beer you have made.

I really enjoy making my own beer (or other adult beverages) but i'm thinking it will be a while until it starts to pay off financially . . .

 

[sandyeggoxj]

HA! Pay off?! Well if you don't count the start-up cost then it is well worth it financially. Let's see... I just spent $2400 on kettles, plus another $1000 on an eHerms panel build. And then there is the mill, the kegerator, FVs. Yep. Definitely cheaper than just buying beer.

 

[FatDragon]

Brewing in China personally. I'm going to estimate about $700 in and so far about 300 bottles out, with about 150 bottles fermenting or conditioning and about 200 more bottles worth of ingredients in-hand. There are also three gallons of mead conditioning that fall within that rough estimate of $700.

 

[ong]

Hmm. I've probably spent $300 on *brewing* equipment. I use one big kettle, BIAB, a cheapo Corona mill, plastic carboys. I have another $400 or so in kegging gear, though. I've made about 40 5 gallon all-grain batches, and 10 extract before that, so... 2500 bottles worth or so?

 

[HB_brewer]

I normally spend somewhere between $4 and $8 for a 22oz bottle so if I can get to the point where I would rather drink my home brew vs the $8 22oz bottle I think it will be well worth it and make me rationalize buying more equipment :rockin:

 

[ong]

At this point I very rarely buy commercial beer... It all tastes weird now! Where's the hops, I cry.

 

[FatDragon]

I normally spend somewhere between $4 and $8 for a 22oz bottle so if I can get to the point where I would rather drink my home brew vs the $8 22oz bottle I think it will be well worth it and make me rationalize buying more equipment :rockin:

For some, homebrewing is a way to drink good beer on the cheap, but others will never get better ROI than buying commercial brew, thanks to the march toward ever-better equipment and home bar setups and things like that. It's as much about the hobby as anything. A model aircraft builder isn't likely to measure the ROI of his hobby as cost per flight hour; while the flight or the beer is the final payoff, the process is equally part of why we have hobbies.

I'm very glad that I can brew cheaper than I can buy (quality) beer here in China, but considering how much more beer I drink now that I brew, it's still significantly more expensive than not brewing. I do it as much for the fun and sense of accomplishment as I do for the beer. The cost, while it certainly needs to be managed according to your own personal budget and means, is incidental to me.

 

[HB_brewer]

I know all about the model airplane ROI vs flight time . . . trust me on that one. My first flight was 20-30 secs and it cost me way too much, but I have gotten better.

I really like brewing, it has some synergy to my cooking passion and my creative personality. I definitely think its worth it, but so far I only have 1 carboy fermenting and a lot of cash put into the process, I just hope it all pays off in satisfaction in the end, not so concerned about the financial responsibility at this point

 

[Gameface]

I probably need to make another 5000-6000 beers to break even...Once I get my new HERMS system going I'm sure I'll start cranking out the brews faster than ever, but of course at that point I'll probably need to brew 10K beers to hit my break-even point, that's where the automation upgrade will really help, and to help "pay" for that upgrade I'll probably end up going to larger batches, which will mean new kettles and larger fermenters and converting a room in my house into a walk in fermentation chamber...

Yep, I'll be getting a positive ROI any year now.

 

[Talonracer67]

Its a hobby so I really don't count the cost. Getting cheap, GOOD beer is just a benefit. When I was into building fast cars, wow talk about a negative ROI. I hunt alot and shoot 4 or 5 deer a year and if you count how much I spend to get them, its some expensive meat.

It IS possible to simply get into homebrewing to get cheap beer. Just get all your brew equipment used and cheap. Buy stuff in bulk for brewing. Presto!! However with most people its a hobby, and there's always something out there that's gonna make you hobby easier/better.

 

[masskrug]

I spent $800 on equipment and usually $25 on supplies per batch.

17 sessions per year yields at least 425 22 oz bombers = $1225
$1225/425 = $2.88 per 22 oz bomber in the first year (not bad). After that it is only $1.00 per 22 oz bomber.

 

[hou_me]

If you like buying new equipment, you'll probably never break even. If you are happy with a few pails and some bottles you probably break even pretty quickly. All grain is way more cost effective in terms of ingredients, but there are additional equipment costs to consider. Most of us don't count our time either because we enjoy it. I think I've probably broken even at this point, but I don't do it for the money. Besides I'm about to spend money on kegs and building a keezer, so I'll be in the red again anyway.

-ben

 

[Cathedral]

When I was into building fast cars, wow talk about a negative ROI.

Monetarily, oh yeah, huge dump. But I always thought I got my ROI when I left everyone else staring at tail lights: my ROI was the huge, madman grin on my face.

 

[Braufessor]

Don't hold your breath I don't know how many batches I have brewed to be honest. I know it is more than 300 pretty easy. It is under 500. Let's just say 350 batches to be conservative.

350 batches x 8 six packs per batch = 2800 6 packs.
2800 6packs x $8 a sixer (avg. $$ over 18 years) = $22,400.

I am pretty damn certain I have spent well in excess of $22,000 on equipment + ingredients. No - I am positive I have spent more than that.

So, I have yet to break even, much less come out ahead.

That said - I get to make beer. There is no ROI for golfing, or fishing, or hunting or any other hobby either. No price can be put on countless hours of enjoyment and satisfaction. If you do put a price on "entertainment value" - I am WAYYYYY ahead.

I would have bought beer anyway. So, it is not like that money would have been sitting there in a pile today had I not brewed. More than likely I would have not only bought the beer, but drank it while participating in some other hobby that still cost that much money, plus the cost of the beer.

Once you do have you equipment in place - you can brew beer cheaper or at least break even when considering ingredients, and various odds and ends like buckets, tubing, etc. At least you can if you brew all-grain and buy in bulk.

But, like I said - I think an awful lot of us do it because we love the process and the satisfaction of making beer ourselves.

 

[Hello]

It is hard for me to say. I have about $350 invested in kegging equipment and more to come. My kettles total $225, MLT $100, various other items can easily be at least $200. Ingredients and such on 13 batches...Really hard to say.

I still buy commercial beer and I still go out and drink beer. I never thought to consider this to be a hobby where there was an ROI. I will say I have the most beer in the house than anyone on the block and I am slowly (and gladly) becoming the house people flock to when the weatherperson gets all doomsday about life and work/school is delayed or cancelled for the next day. In all honesty, the only ROI I ever thought I would gladly see was a way for me to meet more people. Who doesn't want to come together over some hopefully delicious beers? Yup, I just got corny.

You can absolutely end up paying for your equipment over time. Eventually your cost to produce two cases of beer (5 gallons) can definitely save you money but first you have to obviously brew a bunch and perhaps not spend the money you think you saved on commercial beer.

 

[mtyquinn]

Love this hobby, but the idea that I'm going to break even is pretty slim. It can be done, you can "save" money. But if you goal is to make the best beer possible- it's unlikely your going to save money.

 

[Yooper]

Brewing to save money on beer is like buying a boat to save money on fish.

I did start cheap, with a couple of buckets and things. But I now have an all-electric HERMS, a kegerator with 8 kegs, a small kegerator for my cottage with small kegs, a ton of grains, carboys and fermenters, an extra freezer, etc.

I attend the NHC most years- which costs me about $2000 right there every year. I'm certain I have over $5000 in equipment costs.

I have no idea how much I have invested in this hobby. But it's cheaper than SCUBA or skydiving, that's for sure!

 

[teckmaster0179]

I've got probably $200 into my equipment. It's really all about finding deals. Just picked up a 60qt brew kettle for $20. Probably another $200 in brew kits. I'm on my 7th or 8th kit. If you had to buy actual cases of the beer, it's probably into $400-$500 range. Best thing I can recommend is to get chummy with a bartender somewhere and have them save you bottles. I think I have 12 cases and didn't pay a penny for any of them.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[rxpx40]

I lucked out. My Brother-in-law bought all the equipment and brewed his first batch in his house when his wife was sick with the flu. Shortly thereafter he gave me all his brewing equipment.
From there I managed to scrounge most everything I have. My son has helped by picking up some cheap equipment along the way. What do you think Arak, we may have about $200 total in our equipment? We brewed a 471 Small Batch clone that was in my opinion better balanced than the original. I calculated the beer purchased would be over $200 in the quantity I made for $57. The equipment has paid for itself over the 15 years I've been doing this.
I don't brew Bud Light.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

As a newish home brewer/engineer/guy that loves to spend money on cool stuff, I was just wondering how much you guys think you have spent on brew kettles, carboys, fancy ferment chambers, kegs, keezers, etc and how many bottles of beer you have made.

I really enjoy making my own beer (or other adult beverages) but i'm thinking it will be a while until it starts to pay off financially . . .

The ROI is beer, a hobby, and a chance to DIY. There is no savings in homebrew.

 

[TyTanium]

Think in terms of maximizing utility and you'll be fine.


The tough part about brewing economics is most people just compare price per oz and don't adjust for changes in quantity. On the margin, homebrew is cheaper, therefore, quantity consumed increases, ceteris parabis.

So yes, I'm spending more money than I otherwise would, so financially, the ROI is negative. But I'm also getting to enjoy increased consumption on the margin. Add in the enjoyment of the process and satisfaction in what I've produced (i.e., non-financial utility items) and that far exceeds the marginal costs ($ and time, primarily)

Plus, homebrewers have more friends. It's a fact.

 

[jeffcosgrove]

In addition, I brew more beer than I can drink myself and enjoy sharing my creations with friends. The dads on my daughter's soccer team love the out of town tournaments because I bring two 3 gal. kegs with me and we're lucky if they make it through the 1st night. I also bring each of them a 750mL every time I make a batch to get their feedback.

 

[geoffm33]

The ROI is beer, a hobby, and a chance to DIY. There is no savings in homebrew.

^ This.

And also this:

 

[chato]

I'm new to homebrewing and I'm surprised at the money drain. I've got about $600 in equipment (I went straight to AG). My per-batch ingredients are averaging $50-65 for 5 gal, so close to $6 a six pack. I see some ways to bring the ingredients' cost down (bulk grain, bulk hops, reuse yeast, etc), but some of those involve more equipment purchases (mill, vacuum sealer, freezer, etc). So far the beer is drinkable, but not great (actually one IS great, the other is so-so, and another is still fermenting). I'd be devastated cost-wise if I ended up with a drain-pour batch.

 

[ScottG58]

If I thought about the money, I would probably buy Busch Lite. I don't know how many batches. Three this year so far. I probably have around $2k tied up in equipment. It's like golf--don't think about the cost of the green fees, enjoy the day.

 

[MarshmallowBlue]

I've gotten most of my gear (not an impressive set up) through Christmas / birthdays over a few years. This year my resolution was to be 85% Self sufficient on homebrew. My fiance doesn't drink, so I make 3 Gallons a month with just under 30$ and buy a 6 pack of something every now and then. As far as meeting the goal in terms of fluid ounces, it's fairly easy.

Meeting the goal financially will be a steep climb as I can make 3 gallons of BIAB All grain (384 fl OZ) for 25 bucks but 10$ on a 6 pack only gets you up 72 fl oz.

It's very possible to at least break even or go positive ROI if you are modest with your equipment needs/ receive some of it as gifts. If you go full on with the brewstands, temp chambers, conical fermenters etc, I doubt you could ever get a + ROI. The hobby is different for everyone so it's really what you want to do. If you're goal is to just spend less on beer by making and save money on the whole thing, you need to plan for that accordingly.

The Main thing to remember about the hobby is that it's just that and do what is fun for you!

 

[grainbill]

my best purchase: $600 = (7) 5 gal kegs (5 never used...) 10 co2 tank, (2) 15 gal keggles, counter flow chiller, (2) burners plus a bunch of accessories. Probably another $1000 since. I used to keep track..... Adding a keezer this year, $250 for the 14cu plus what I'll need to convert... brewed, I guess around 1,500 - 2,000 gals maybe more.

 

[broadbill]

meh, when you get down to it...you blow so much in time doing this hobby (or any hobby), even without the equipment or ingredient expense you'll never "make money" in the conventional sense by brewing your own.

Because of this elephant in the room, I never find these discussions to be worthwhile. I brew because I like making my own product and the process, I buy equipment because I like gadgets and making the process easier/enjoyable, and I buy ingredients in bulk or on sale because it makes me feel better about spending the money.

There is no real ROI on homebrewing, like any hobby.

 

[broadbill]

My per-batch ingredients are averaging $50-65 for 5 gal, so close to $6 a six pack.

Now if you added a hypothetical labor cost (say pay yourself minimum wage for those 6-8 hours of AG brewing) then add in your amortized equipment costs....

that $9-12 bucks a six pack of craft beer doesn't look so bad!

 

[MarshmallowBlue]

Oh if you do nothing but make sours, I'm sure your ROI will be through the roof as 12oz bottles go for 8$ and up.

 

[geoffm33]

WOOHOO!!! We made it to page three and there is no debate (yet) over factoring in labor costs or not. New record! :fro:

 

[kombat]

The saying goes, "Homebrewing to save money on beer is like buying a boat to save money on fish."

 

[MarshmallowBlue]

WOOHOO!!! We made it to page three and there is no debate (yet) over factoring in labor costs or not. New record! :fro:

Since home brewing is fun, labor is free. We're on page 4 so we can discuss this now.

 

[geoffm33]

Since home brewing is fun, labor is free. We're on page 4 so we can discuss this now.

Absolutely. With the amount of money my friends spend on golf, homebrewing is cheap fun. But when they are done golfing, they have to buy beers. My beers are the byproduct of my hobby

 

[MarshmallowBlue]

Oh shoot you're in Boston! Sup buddy.

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

I got in this hobby with the plan to have a set up that could handle brewing higher abv 6gal batches while keeping initial investment cost down. The whole set up cost me around $350. With most of my beers costing 50¢-$1, give or take, Ive saved a lot of money making my own beer.

Now I'm starting to invest more into my set up where I think it will have the biggest contributions to my beer or will make brewing easier. Things like a submersible pump to use my pool as a reservoir to run my IC, nice thermoworks thermometer, orange cooler to use as a HLT for fly sparging, oxygen wand, and most recently an 8.8 cu ft freezer to make the jump to kegging. So that probably brings me to about $1000 total investment. But with the 100+ gal I brew a year, not including cider, I'm sure Ive saved more than I've spent.

 

[geoffm33]

Oh shoot you're in Boston! Sup buddy.

Hey man! How's it going?!?

 

[Xpertskir]

Once my barrels of sour beer start producing I'll be printing homebrew money.

Median retail sour beer prices are around 650 per 5 gallons. So each barrel I have has about 7500 or so in retail cost sour beer in it. Total ingredient cost of 300ish including barrel yields ~7200 in profit every couple years. That pays for a ****load of equipment.

The economics of other styles are far less favorable, even if you are buying hops and grain in bulk and yeast ranching. I'd argue that the increased consumption(not considering giveaways) home brewing causes wipes out any potential gains after amortizing equipment.

 

[BBL_Brewer]

Probably one of the most controversial topics when it comes to home brewing. The reality is that it's different for everyone. It depends largely on how much beer you would drink (whether you brew it yourself or not), how much that beer costs, how much you spend on equipment and how much you spend on ingredients. I believe I'm saving money vs buying the beer I like to drink, but I also don't count labor as an opportunity cost. But, if you want to single out time/labor as a cost look at it this way. Equipment aside, brewing craft beer is cheaper than buying it (if you play your cards right). Divide the money you save by the time it took you to brew, and that's how much money your labor earned you. Add a percentage to that, since you don't have to pay taxes on it, and you make even more money. Instead of saving that money, I invested it in equipment. If you build as cheaply as possible and design a system that will meet your needs for life without additional upgrades, you will eventually break even on it (assuming you are going to be a life long beer drinker). At that point, the money you saved brewing vs buying payed for the equipment you bought. From this point on, you actually save money. Time isn't really a big deal for me. I enjoy brewing and I could have spent that time doing something completely unproductive like watching tv. If time is a big factor for you, brew larger batches to make brewday more time efficient. I jumped up to 30 gallon batches for just that reason. I can brew 30 gallons in about 12 hours. That's only 2 hours per 5 gallon batch. Not too shabby. Add in a little extra time for yeast starters, kegging, yada yada and it still isn't that awful bad compared to brewing 5 gallon batches all the time. I will agree with everyone in that if you are home brewing exclusively to save money, you probably won't. But, if you are a life long beer drinker, genuinely enjoy the hobby, and would have otherwise spent that time doing something completely unproductive, then it can save you money in the long run.

 

[elkshadow]

I don't remember how much I spent but I bought:

5 gallon cooler (a friend from another board gave me the valve so I didn't need that)
Turkey fryer burner with 8 gallon pot
20 pound propane tank
roll of copper tubing to make an immersion chiller

That was it for the "expensive stuff."

Other stuff like hydrometer, thief, cheap buckets from the restaurant supply store, hose, etc...

I make 3 gallon batches in my condo.

I probably have around 400 in startup equipment. Up til now, I've averaged $1 a bottle (I make mostly 10%+ beers) but I'm getting ready to get a mill and vacuum sealer and buy grain and hops in bulk which I'm calculating will cut my per-bottle cost almost in half.