Homebrew can save you lots of money

[cimirie]

Oh and I think these days the federal government considers the cost of driving a mile about 50 cents. This is obviously an hour and excludes the value of that time. If you enjoy driving and don't consider the time to have a cost, god bless you.

Econ 101 textbook response. Nobody in the real world cares. You gotta stop looking at it from an academic perspective! Do I have to actually spend real money to pay for gas and tolls to get to my LHBS? Yes. That's a valid "cost" when figuring out batch cost because I have to spend physical currency on it.

Do I have to spend physical currency to pay myself to drive? No. Since it doesn't take a single penny out of my pocket, it is irrelevant to the real world discussion of cost.

And to sweetchuck's point about Sam Adams needing to build these items into the cost of their beer... Sure they do. And there's a real good reason for it: they actually have to pay real money for it. They bought their breweries to brew in. They pay their drivers to drive.

I don't have that problem. My guess is, neither do you. So building it into your cost is faulty logic. If an accountant managed his books like that, it would possibly land him in jail.

 

[remilard]

If an accountant managed his books like that, it would possibly land him in jail.

You have some interesting ideas about accounting. Have you ever read financial statements? They are full of intangible items. Did Sam Adams put all of their goodwill in a bucket and sell it? Where did that come from?

If think you should quit your job and make every single product you use. Think about how irrational it is that you are refusing to save all of that money.

 

[cimirie]

You have some interesting ideas about accounting. Have you ever read financial statements? They are full of intangible items. Did Sam Adams put all of their goodwill in a bucket and sell it? Where did that come from?

I can say what I do because I actually do look at financial statements. I'm a consultant - it's my job.

Yup, there are intangibles listed. Simply being listed on the financial statement doesn't mean its being used to determine cost of goods or cost of sale. One thing you'll never find in the profit/loss equation is time. In accounting (and tax code), time has zero value, except for that which has been physically paid for it. Paid, as in real dollars. Time has no inherent value unless somebody has been reimbursed for said time. So you can say "you can discount your labor cost as much as you want, but it's still a cost," because it sounds good, but that's just not true. Unless you are accepting tangible and quantifiable reimbursement for your time, it plays no role in determining the cost of a product.

And as we've determined, none of us are. Therefore, the time we've spent brewing has no actual value. And if we WERE doing it professionally but didn't pay ourselves, we still couldn't account for it in the coat of the product.

If think you should quit your job and make every single product you use. Think about how irrational it is that you are refusing to save all of that money.

It's not irrational at all. It's a simple cash flow equation. I bring in salary, a far larger number than I would save by making my own products.

 

[Synovia]

The actual cost of your labor to brew a batch of beer for yourself is approximately the amount of money that you would accept to NOT do your very next favorite leisure activity when you already had plans to do it. Sure it's hypothetical but it's better than ignoring it as if that 6 hours had no monetary value.

No, its not. Generally I do other leisure activities while I brew.


6 House on a saturday while I'm also mowing the lawn, reading a book, and fishing off the dock out back most certainly have no monetary value.

 

[bottlebomber]

I've been enjoying reading this thread... your both clearly intelligent people, fully equipped to represent your separate viewpoints. And that's why you will never resolve this disagreement. Only difference is, Syv is debating for free, while Bobby has potentially spent hundreds of dollars on this discussion

 

[WhiskeyR]

As a newb, I look at this as a hobby. I'm not saving money, but I am definitely diverting money I'd otherwise spend buying beer to making it myself and I find that rewarding.

I have this pipe dream that now that I'm done blowing money on my kegerator I could maybe save a few bucks here or there.

 

[bottlebomber]

I wish I could say id save money at some point, however I've only just gathered enough (quality) equipment to brew, and I've already got my eye on fancy 3 tierd setups, conical fermentors, and everything else that costs big bucks. Although my favorite craftbrew is almost 7 dollars for a 22oz bottle so if I can eventually learn how to clone that I will save buckets in the long run, if I don't figure in 30 dollars an hour that my time is theoretically worth into my overhead.

 

[remilard]

I can say what I do because I actually do look at financial statements. I'm a consultant - it's my job.

Yup, there are intangibles listed. Simply being listed on the financial statement doesn't mean its being used to determine cost of goods or cost of sale. One thing you'll never find in the profit/loss equation is time. In accounting (and tax code), time has zero value, except for that which has been physically paid for it. Paid, as in real dollars. Time has no inherent value unless somebody has been reimbursed for said time. So you can say "you can discount your labor cost as much as you want, but it's still a cost," because it sounds good, but that's just not true. Unless you are accepting tangible and quantifiable reimbursement for your time, it plays no role in determining the cost of a product.

And as we've determined, none of us are. Therefore, the time we've spent brewing has no actual value. And if we WERE doing it professionally but didn't pay ourselves, we still couldn't account for it in the coat of the product.



It's not irrational at all. It's a simple cash flow equation. I bring in salary, a far larger number than I would save by making my own products.

Hey, a consultant, me too. What I do is a charge for an hour of my time and then people pay by boss and then my boss effectively pays me a percentage of that. I assume you have a similar setup.

Since I am a good consultant, I can work as much as I want. Every time I brew 6 hours I could have billed 6 hours and made hundreds of dollars. So am I saving money, or spending a lot of money on leisure? I think the latter.

How about my coworkers who golf? Are they saving money if they play public courses rather than join a club? What if they bought some land and built a course for a million dollars. Then they play free. I mean, well, they have to hire 5 guys to maintain the course but if you add up the real costs like tees and balls and lacoste shirts and gps things, they are really only spend a few grand a year. I think if I play golf I can save even more money than I do brewing beer. I am glad we had this talk.

 

[remilard]

BTW, the fact that you work exactly as much as you choose to and then stop and do leisure activities and say your time has zero cost, but if I ask you to work one hour less then that has a cost...

Boggles the mind.

 

[TheMan]

And that's why you will never resolve this disagreement. Only difference is, Syv is debating for free, while Bobby has potentially spent hundreds of dollars on this discussion

Lol.

I agree, after hearing bobby explain it I can see why some consider time a cost. I don't agree with that view though. In my mind leisure time is leisure time (doing things you enjoy), you do what you want with it. Whether you volunteer at a homeless shelter, brew beer or go to the bar...it's doing something you enjoy. I don't associate a cost with that time.

 

[remilard]

Lol.

I agree, after hearing bobby explain it I can see why some consider time a cost. I don't agree with that view though. In my mind leisure time is leisure time (doing things you enjoy), you do what you want with it. Whether you volunteer at a homeless shelter, brew beer or go to the bar...it's doing something you enjoy. I don't associate a cost with that time.

I think you do agree. You work X hours and then you choose leisure at hour X+1. The reason you do so is that the more your work, the more the value of leisure increases. You stop working when doing things you enjoy (like brewing) is worth more than working more.

Like I've said on here before, you are a real screw up if you can't get a part time gig at burger king. That pays about $8 an hour (and is a very easy job and a good probability of getting laid). So clearly leisure is worth more than $8 an hour to you, because you haven't taken that job yet.

 

[redcoat_or_rebel]

See below?



Okay, but that's not comparing apples to apples.

You are only including your ingredient costs. For you to buy a case of Busch, you're paying for marketing, canning, shipping, etc...

To compare apples to apples, compare only the cost of ingredients to make a case of Busch - and then scale it to the quantities that AB buys ingredients....

That would be closer to an apples to apples comparison.



Did I cover it Bobby?

according to Bobby, the people brewing Busch aren't actually making any money because they could be using that time and money brewing potentially doing something else that makes them more money. they only brew professionally because they enjoy it....

 

[mky375]

When asked by someone who doesn't brew I like to say it's a free hobby. I'm going to drink beer regardless of making it or not. I happen to enjoy brewing so I make my own.

You can save some money but I couldn't justify spending 8 hours on brew day then a few hours bottling or an hour kegging to save 30 dollars or so if I didn't enjoy doing it.

 

[redcoat_or_rebel]

Since I am a good consultant, I can work as much as I want. Every time I brew 6 hours I could have billed 6 hours and made hundreds of dollars. So am I saving money, or spending a lot of money on leisure? I think the latter.

.

i'll say it again, your time is only worth what someone is willing to pay you for it. if there are no people needing consultations during the time you choose to brew, then no you cannot assume it cost you the money you could have made.

i usually brew after 8pm - no one is paying me during that time.

 

[Bobby_M]

according to Bobby, the people brewing Busch aren't actually making any money because they could be using that time and money brewing potentially doing something else that makes them more money. they only brew professionally because they enjoy it....

Obviously you understand me well enough to put words in my mouth. If you're going to use this as an example: if you're working a job making 10/hr that you love doing when you could be making $20/hr for a job you would hate. Yes, there's a 10/hr opportunity cost of doing a job you enjoy. Thanks for playing.

Again, if you've stumbled into this thread late and reply with something like "I don't consider my labor because it's a hobby and I enjoy it" it makes you look like you have no reading comprehension. Sorry if that's insulting. Try to understand that, while it seems inconceivable to us, SOME people couldn't give a crap about how great it is to brew. They actually might be wondering if it's a cheap way to get a buzz. Yes, it is, if you already have no life and no other commitments.

If you want to get less academic (believe it or not real academics do apply to real life),the question of how much does it cost is usually followed by "how long does it take?" Aha! the non homebrewer actually recognized the "non accounting" version time cost?

"How much does it cost?"

Oh, after the overhead of storage solutions and a mill and a yeast bank fridge, I've got it down to about $20 for a really nice 5 gallon batch.

"Wow, that's really cheap, how long does it take?"
With setup and cleanup about 6 hours on brew day but then it ferments and conditions for about 6-8 weeks.

"oh **** that".

See... this is a practical real world conversation between someone who is looking for the cheapest way to get beer and someone who will spend an unlimited amount to make it themselves.

It's my birthday so today you must agree with me.

 

[Bobby_M]

i'll say it again, your time is only worth what someone is willing to pay you for it. if there are no people needing consultations during the time you choose to brew, then no you cannot assume it cost you the money you could have made.

i usually brew after 8pm - no one is paying me during that time.

It just means that you justify taking that leisure time by assuming you can't earn money during that time. Of course, I think most people are capable of hustling more than they do. Have you ever turned down an offer for overtime pay? Why don't you have 3 jobs?

 

[remilard]

i'll say it again, your time is only worth what someone is willing to pay you for it. if there are no people needing consultations during the time you choose to brew, then no you cannot assume it cost you the money you could have made.

i usually brew after 8pm - no one is paying me during that time.

How many hours are their in a week? That's how many hours someone is willing to pay me for in a week.

You aren't me, but Burger King will employ you after 8 PM. So your leisure is at least worth $8 an hour plus a free value meal per shift. Mine is worth a lot more than that, but yours is worth at least that.

 

[Bobby_M]

Look at it this way, not all employers support the concept of overtime but most production based businesses do. Why do you suppose overtime usually pays at a higher rate? Is it because leisure time is free to the employee? No. It's because the employer recognizes that you're giving up leisure time that is actually more valuable than your regular hourly rate.

 

[cimirie]

It just means that you justify taking that leisure time by assuming you can't earn money during that time. Of course, I think most people are capable of hustling more than they do. Have you ever turned down an offer for overtime pay? Why don't you have 3 jobs?

Once again, you're over-assigning value to time not spent generating income. Whether I chose to spend my non-income-earning hours brewing or sitting on my ass on the couch, my opportunity loss is the same. I will do one or the other. I will not pursue profit earning activities. Once we've established that that opportunity loss will happen regardless of my choice of leisure activity, it's illogical to apply that to a per/batch cost just because I chose to brew. It is a sunk cost. There is no application for that.

Happy birthday, by the way!

 

[Bobby_M]

There is a cost to deciding which hours are non-income generating. However you want to slice it, the only reason you will spend that time brewing is because you're not looking for the cheapest way to GET beer. You're looking for a hobby for which the output is beer.

 

[remilard]

Once again, you're over-assigning value to time not spent generating income. Whether I chose to spend my non-income-earning hours brewing or sitting on my ass on the couch, my opportunity loss is the same. I will do one or the other. I will not pursue profit earning activities. Once we've established that that opportunity loss will happen regardless of my choice of leisure activity, it's illogical to apply that to a per/batch cost just because I chose to brew. It is a sunk cost. There is no application for that.

Happy birthday, by the way!

Sweet, it was just a matter of time. The classic "homebrewing is cheap" argument. Sink future costs.

 

[Goblism]

I think homebrewing is a huge money saver. Everyone is arguing over whether to include labor time, I am taking an outside the box approach and am looking at it as entertainment. Let's say instead of brewing you were to go to a show for $90 a ticket with your significant other. Bam! just saved $180 by dedicating my time towards brewing compared to going to see a show. At my current employment I am allowed limited access to overtime, I have side jobs that I still work but only when I can dedicate 6-8 hours to the job otherwise it is not worth it. If I sit down to brew it is almost always on a day when I cannot dedicate 6-8 hours to go to my potential side jobs.
Also lets look at racking the beer, takes 30 minutes absolute max to do a couple of batches, are you saying it is more cost efficient for me to drive to my work (12 minute drive each way) and work for 6 minutes? I would probably lose money when it comes to things like that due to costs involved in driving my car to work.

Look at some people that can there own food? Would you argue that they are not saving money either because they could easily save more money by working a job and buying the food vs canning it? Give me a break!

My vote goes for brewing CAN save money.

 

[redcoat_or_rebel]

It just means that you justify taking that leisure time by assuming you can't earn money during that time. Of course, I think most people are capable of hustling more than they do. Have you ever turned down an offer for overtime pay? Why don't you have 3 jobs?

i could have 5 jobs but i only make what my employers are willing to pay me for each job. no jobs = no money. i could have 5 jobs but when the hours those jobs require me to work only occur at certain times then i cannot say those "off hours" are worth the same amount of money i would be making while working. you can't "hobby brew" and work at the same time.

i could own my own business and it is the same outcome- i am only making money when clients are utilizing my services or buying my products, no client= no money.

money is simply an agreed upon mode of exchange for labor/expended energy. your labor is not worth money, money is a symbol of your labor. labor can be valued in anything that is agreed upon.

AGAIN - if no one is willing to pay you for your time and/or labor, it is of no monetary value.

everyone is thinking of Time and Labor as the same thing. the actual labor involved is very minimal in brewing. the time far outweighs the labor. you don't pay someone the same amount for 8 hours of lawn mowing as you do for 8 hours of mechanical work. the Labor input is what is important and what the thread was discussing.

now, if you can convince someone to pay you as much as your day job for standing over a boiling pot for 4 hours, then more power to you. i would pay the boy next door about 5 bucks to watch my boil...

if you throw the word "academic" around at least know the market variables involved. the market controls all.

yes, i have turned down overtime several times and i don't consider any of my time "leisure" time. i recieve a salary so my pay is only affected by my not going to work, i cannot earn more money other than getting another source if income. the type of work for another source of income would determine what my time during those working hours would be worth.

if i consdered giving up a income to brew then i would factor in an hourly lost income in my budget but once i lost the income it is no longer relevant. if you tried to re-enter the workforce the market may have dictated a different wage value for your labor.

why is this so hard for people to get?? if you are a rocket scientist and there are no rockets to build, your labor is worth as much as the work you can get.

 

[redcoat_or_rebel]

How many hours are their in a week? That's how many hours someone is willing to pay me for in a week.

You aren't me, but Burger King will employ you after 8 PM. So your leisure is at least worth $8 an hour plus a free value meal per shift. Mine is worth a lot more than that, but yours is worth at least that.

that's just dumb, no one is going to pay 168 hours per week. see my response to Bobby...

 

[bob1852]

Look at some people that can there own food? Would you argue that they are not saving money either because they could easily save more money by working a job and buying the food vs canning it? Give me a break!

I was gonna bring up gardening, but since it's the same debate, it doesn't really matter...

My vote goes for brewing CAN save money.

Agreed. But to say that you're batches cost $15 compared to a $10 sixer, without factoring in your other costs that allow you to get down to $15/batch is just plain assinine (and I'm not even brining in the "time" factor: just add up the costs of your entire brewing set up, your grain mill because you're buying bulk grain to "save" money, your canning set up so you can wash yeast to "save" money, your vaccuum sealer and accessories so you can buy hops in bulk to "save" money, etc. etc. etc. etc.).

When people ask me if it's cheaper to homebrew, I am answer completely and accurately - "yes; if you only look at cost of barley, hops, and yeast; of course, there's other expenses to consider such as equipment and supplies that allow me to lower the cost of barley, hops, and yeast - not to mention propane, water, and time; but it's a fun fecking hobby and I like to brew. If I didn't like the acutal art of brewing, I would not brew solely to acquire beer 'cheaper.'"

 

[Goblism]

Agreed. But to say that you're batches cost $15 compared to a $10 sixer, without factoring in your other costs that allow you to get down to $15/batch is just plain assinine (and I'm not even brining in the "time" factor: just add up the costs of your entire brewing set up, your grain mill because you're buying bulk grain to "save" money, your canning set up so you can wash yeast to "save" money, your vaccuum sealer and accessories so you can buy hops in bulk to "save" money, etc. etc. etc. etc.).

I agree that early on it would be difficult to save money, I don't believe I will really ever save any money with this hobby, but if I wanted to I believe it wouldn't be difficult. I don't mean this as an attack against you, but I believe that people CAN save money if they make good choices. I am hoping over several years of brewing I can get close to the break even amount. I already had the equipment to store yeast/hops prior to even considering this hobby, if I had to buy these items solely for this hobby than that is a lot of cost to make up for.

I think if you take a basic all grain setup you could save money by buying bulk hops and grains that you will use completely. My current favorite brew I estimate will end up costing me approximaltey $12 a batch assuming bulk base grain, bulk hops, electric heating, priming sugar, and getting 5 batches of yeast per yeast purchase. I still have initial costs to cover, but a simular beer that I thoroughly enjoy runs me $9 a sixer, or about $80/5 gallons.

I think you made a good point, in the end the only thing that really matters is that it is a fun hobby, if it wasn't fun we wouldn't be doing this.

 

[emjay]

It's become obvious people are working off of fundamentally different assumptions that aren't even being addressed. Not that it really can be... I think the question is broad enough to technically allow for either interpretation.

BUT, I think the real spirit of questions like these is, ultimately, whether it's WORTH IT to stop buying commercial beer and producing your own. Many people not familiar with the arguments would even think I'm just rephrasing the same question. But the bottom line is that the time commitment is easily the biggest reason that people familiar with the hobby choose to keep buying beer anyways, and so it's obvious that people DO value their time, even if they wouldn't write it down in a financial statement.

Accounting is simply an agreed upon set of rules to make things easier to communicate, anyways, and people in another part of the world working with different accounting principles can give different answers to an infinite number of questions. Relying on a fairly arbitrary set of rules to provide a logical framework through with to answer questions like these seems equally arbitrary. I also find it a bit funny that people will adopt the accounting approach to justify their position on the cost of this hobby, but then stop short of including depreciation on their vehicles, buildings, fixtures, etc, prorated for the time actually used toward this hobby. Their reason? They would own a home and car and whatever else anyways - a distinctly economic approach. How ironic...

And lastly, just look at the word that's being thrown around constantly. Hobby. We do this because we enjoy doing it. If we didn't enjoy it, none of us would be here. But if brewing your own beer instead of buying it was ultimately worth it - if we genuinely WERE saving - then many people would be brewing regardless of whether or not they enjoyed it, as is the case with stuff like cooking, or fixing up the house and renovating (instead of eating out every night, or hiring a tradesperson or contractor.) I can't think of any litmus test greater than the fact that you HAVE to enjoy brewing for it to make any sense whatsoever.

 

[cimirie]

Sweet, it was just a matter of time. The classic "homebrewing is cheap" argument. Sink future costs.

You're off your rocker. The "classic" sunk future cost outcry you just claimed is BS. THAT argument is that purchasing equipment is a sunk cost (as I've read your retorts before).

This is a totally different scenario. I'm stating emphatically that I will not pursue any money generating activities other than those I'm already pursuing. By your logic, however flawed, you state that lack of pursuing said endeavors incurs a cost. Lets assume I believe that. I will always incur those costs regardless of the activity that I choose to perform. So, if I choose to brew, I incur no additional costs than if I choose not to. Therefore, there can be no tangible opportunity time cost attributed to brewing above that which can be attributed to not working.

This is, of course, all within the realm of economics. In the world where most of us operate, the above is meaningless. In that world, there is no financial cost for anything that doesn't physically remove pennies from your pocket. Unapplied time may be calculable, but it is never is used to calculate profit or loss.

By this point, it's obvious that a group in this thread lives their lives inside of textbooks - choosing to use their acquired econ 101 knowledge instead of listen to reality-based (and fact based) alternatove perspectives. This is fine. Within the confines of their perspective, they're mainly correct. If that makes them happy, cool! We're not making any additional progress here. So, I'm out. Enjoyed the debate fellas.

 

[Bobby_M]

I've gone with real world examples plenty but since you grabbed your toys and left the sandbox, it will be for others to discuss.

We've talked about hypothetical but practical examples of people outside of our community asking about the costs of brewing. Let's take it a step further. Without having to assume whether they will enjoy it as a hobby, what if the question was posed:

"I've tried brewing a few times with a friend but I really don't enjoy it. However, I really like craft beer like Dogfish head so if it's really cheaper to brew, I'll do it".

This sets the context of my argument. No matter how much you enjoy the hobby, someone that doesn't is bound to wonder about the true cost of the endeavor. Let's grant that even considering ingredients and equipment suitable for basic startup brewing and other actual tangible consumables are figured as somewhat money saving (say $10 cheaper per case), you'd have to do some tough selling to convince someone who already knows they don't enjoy brewing that a 5-6 hour investment is worth saving $20.

Pick any other activity where the end product is something you already buy. Why don't you spend your free time making everything yourself? Certainly there will some items that you can't reasonably make yourself, but I'm talking about all the others. Given enough time, research, and energy, we can do almost anything ourselves. The reason you don't is because it's not entertaining in some way and you recognize the costs involved include your time.


My bottom line argument is that the choice to homebrew, and then to continue homebrewing for 99% of us is based on how cool of a hobby it is. The other 1% are bad at economics and are doing it to save money.

 

[bottlebomber]

I think homebrewing is a huge money saver. Everyone is arguing over whether to include labor time, I am taking an outside the box approach and am looking at it as entertainment. Let's say instead of brewing you were to go to a show for $90 a ticket with your significant other. Bam! just saved $180 by dedicating my time towards brewing compared to going to see a show. At my current employment I am allowed limited access to overtime, I have side jobs that I still work but only when I can dedicate 6-8 hours to the job otherwise it is not worth it. If I sit down to brew it is almost always on a day when I cannot dedicate 6-8 hours to go to my potential side jobs.
Also lets look at racking the beer, takes 30 minutes absolute max to do a couple of batches, are you saying it is more cost efficient for me to drive to my work (12 minute drive each way) and work for 6 minutes? I would probably lose money when it comes to things like that due to costs involved in driving my car to work.

Look at some people that can there own food? Would you argue that they are not saving money either because they could easily save more money by working a job and buying the food vs canning it? Give me a break!

My vote goes for brewing CAN save money.

+1. Also fortunately my wife likes to watch me brew, and we usually have a few beers and then she brings me lunch. That as a date would cost me like at least $50 so I am gonna say... making beer is FREE

 

[thughes]

Good point Bobby. There is a reason why I do not make my own bread, cheese, jelly/jam, soap, charcoal, furniture, etc.

 

[bob1852]

Pick any other activity where the end product is something you already buy. Why don't you spend your free time making everything yourself? Certainly there will some items that you can't reasonably make yourself, but I'm talking about all the others. Given enough time, research, and energy, we can do almost anything ourselves. The reason you don't is because it's not entertaining in some way and you recognize the costs involved include your time.

I recently made homemade pizza: the dough, the sauce, the cheese, the pepperoni: all from scratch.

I won't make cheese very often anymore - I hate the process; even though making mozz at home is "saving me lots of money."

 

[Pappers_]

My bottom line argument is that the choice to homebrew, and then to continue homebrewing for 99% of us is based on how cool of a hobby it is. The other 1% are bad at economics and are doing it to save money.

That is a false dichotomy and an example of where your argument fails, for me.

 

[redcoat_or_rebel]

honestly, if you are not saving money then you are doing it wrong.

if the only reason your are not saving money is because you factor in your time+labor, then you are saving money.

if you have a keezer and chest freezer and 5 kegs and 3 tier set up and 4 pots and a stirplate etc etc then of course you are not saving money.

 

[luvhopps]

This has reached the point of stupidity, please shut this down.

 

[bob1852]

This has reached the point of stupidity, please shut this down.

I think this (and all of the other threads on this) topic are valuable to discuss the biases with regard to the economics of hobbies that produce a product widely available for purchase as a reasonable price.

 

[Haputanlas]

I've spent maybe $500-$600 on equipment. For the styles of beers I typically produce, I've saved well beyond what I would have spent. In addition, I will many times brew beer for friends that buy the ingredients and typically give me half of the result.

In terms of calculated hourly wage, I'm losing money. But, I will tell you that I consider this hobby as a luxury. It's actually soothing to me. I guarantee you that I wouldn't be spending that time working or trying to make money. So that point is irrelevant to me (And maybe only to me).

 

[Synovia]

BTW, the fact that you work exactly as much as you choose to and then stop and do leisure activities and say your time has zero cost, but if I ask you to work one hour less then that has a cost...

Boggles the mind.

Of course my time has a cost. The thing is, the cost of brewing beer isn't any different than the cost of sitting on my ass, fishing out on the dock or reading a book.

I'm not going to work any more hours than I already do (about 50 a week), so the fact that I could is irrelevant to the calculations.

A 12-pack at the liquor store costs about the same as it costs me to make 50 beers.

 

[Clann]

Of course my time has a cost. The thing is, the cost of brewing beer isn't any different than the cost of sitting on my ass, fishing out on the dock or reading a book.

I'm not going to work any more hours than I already do (about 50 a week), so the fact that I could is irrelevant to the calculations.

A 12-pack at the liquor store costs about the same as it costs me to make 50 beers.

Most times when I brew I am sitting on my a$$ reading a book wating on hop additions.

I'm not at home brewing and have spent enough on storebought beer to make almost 2 batches and only got 24 beers

 

[Hex]

In our house, beer is a staple just like fruit, vegetables, bread, meat, eggs. Some things we buy, some things we make, we never go out for a meal.

When we had chickens, we ate more eggs, when the 28 fruit trees produce, we consume their bounty in quantities giving excess to our many friends--same goes when the vegetable garden produces its cornucopia.

Now when the beer is ripe, we drink more beer!
I would never even considered giving our friends beer that I bought from the store.

Homebrew saves us money, just like the rest.