bottlebomber said:
Golf already came up... same discussion. Do you add in the time you spend playing on the cost for 18 holes?
Of course we do, if only unconsciously. And obviously, if I'm playing golf, I feel that all the costs involved are still worth the enjoyment I get in return. Hell, most avid golfers spend their time doing what they consider to be "practice"... being good at the game, and keeping up one's skills, certainly have a time investment.
Consciously coming up with the cost of the time playing golf only sounds ridiculous because of one key difference from homebrewing: the fact that it sounds equally ridiculous that anybody would ever play golf to "save money". It doesn't produce any tangible good, only your entertainment.
And enjoyment/entertainment seems to be the key thing being overlooked here. When adding all the costs up - variable (e.g. ingredients), fixed (e.g. equipment), and your time - enjoyment is ALSO a product of all this, not just the beer we produce. Most people who don't enjoy homebrewing (or don't think they would) certainly don't think this hobby is worth it, but why? If it were only a matter of equipment and consumables, you can recoup your costs in 1 or 2 batches, if that's REALLY your goal. But in my experience (and clearly not only my own), time is by far the biggest turnoff (heck, it's been the only real turnoff) for people thinking about homebrewing.
The only way to explain all this is that the out-of-pocket costs can easily be LESS THAN the marginal saved by switching from commercial to homebrewed beer, which would result in a lower cost. So what we "get" out of it would be the same, but it would simply cost us less - and what kind of idiot wants it the other way around? Are you saying everybody is just stupid?
Far more likely is that once the cost of one's own time is factored in, the cost is suddenly GREATER THAN the marginal money saved by homebrewing, meaning ultimately we pay more, while still getting the same (unless you value your time UNBELIEVABLY low). Only an idiot wants to pay more without getting more. So is everybody on this site an idiot?
No, because, going back to the initial idea with golf, WE are not actually getting the same. It might ultimately cost us more than simply beer, but we also get a lot more than simply the beer we produce - we get enjoyment out of it. More specifically, we place enough value in that enjoyment to OUTWEIGH the cost of our time. To keep it in the terms I was using before, the total cost is LESS than the total value we receive (in terms of that same marginal money saved, PLUS enjoyment).
Keep in mind money has no inherent value, but simply represents things that do. And that inherent value is largely driven by scarcity. One's time certainly does have inherent value, and it's definitely scarce. If you could take an effortless, risk-free, neither particularly pleasant nor unpleasant job for 1 hour a week that would never interfere with your other job(s), and would cover the entire cost of commuting, how much would you need to be paid to accept it? I might have left a tiny hole in those conditions which somebody will inevitably pounce on, but that figure is, at the very least, pretty damn close to the monetary value you are placing on an hour of your time at the margin.
but I think that liking beer and having a desire to brew are as different as liking good food and having a desire to cook it. Your point, as it appears, is just that your friend doesn't want to make beer. It doesn't have anything to do with assessing the value of this beer with respect to cost savings which im pretty sure is what this thread is about but im not sure anymore...
