Home made filter - Types of fabric?

[nabs478]

This is really an odd question...maybe more for a textile designer...

I have an instant beer chiller which is usually used for chilling beer as it comes out of the keg for serving. I have been entertaining the idea of send my hot wort through there, then removing the hot and cold break together.

It seems that using a full blown beer filter is un-necessary and expensive, but sending it through a sock (I use new, un-worn socks) is a pain in the ass (the sock deforms towards the end and stretches due to the weight on the break, and takes ages as there is not enough pressure to push the beer through fast enough). I want to build a little frame that sits in side a bucket that can hold 10L of wort at once (the bucket will have a drain hole at the bottom). Inside the frame I will put what wll look like a vacuum bag, a little open eneded bag sewn out of some fabirc. Idea being, beer goes in the top, then the weight of the 10L of beer will force the liquid through in some kind of reasonable time frame. I wont have to sit there lik an idiot for 10mins holding this wierd shaped sock. I can just will the bucket, then come back in 1 or 2 mins when its empty and re-fill it.

Here's the question...

Does any body have nay input on what type of fabric to use to ensure the following properties...

1. Reusable and machine mashable.
2. Will remove all hot and cold break.
3. Unlikely to tare with that much beer in there.

Again, fairly odd question. Hope someone has some experience with this.

Thanks.

PS - Just joined this forum, looks great!

 

[eriktlupus]

i don't know how fine they make 'em but you might try a 5 gal paint filter from lowes/HD/etc.. i use the 1 qt ones for hop bags holds most of the pellet hops in.
happy brewing

 

[olllllo]

Have you considered SS mesh?

First, Welcome!

It might be helpful to post some pictures of your set up and your current procedure.

Finally, you absolutely have to tell us about your keg chiller. Is it an ice filled jockey box? Or something more technical like a flash chiller?

 

[olllllo]

Many of us use a Hopstopper or a bazooka tube to remove break. Others use something as simple as a scrubbie pad.

 

[Bobby_M]

I second the 5 gallon paint strainer suggestion above. Just drape the sides over the bucket and secure with a tight bungie cord so it stays off the bottom. I use a mix of hop bags and a hop stopper in the kettle bulkhead, but it sounds like you have plan you want to stick with.

 

[Mutilated1]

At the grocery store where the canning supplies are see if you can find some cheesecloth, sound like that might be good for what you're wanting to do.

 

[nabs478]

Thanks for all the input, this forum is heaps more active than the Aussie version. I am pleasently suprised at the response over the last two hours...I think i'll have to become a supporting member.

First, the beer chiller is a refridgerative unit. You pour about 15L of water into a tank. In the tank it has a copper pipe which pumps that refridgerant through and chills the water to 0 degrees C (32 F I think). Then another thin stainless pipe which is coiled around in the water has the beer pumper through. There is then a tap on the front. So you plug it into power fill her up with water and 20mins later, your beer comes out ice cold...it's great for parties.

My thoughts on this chilling method are not definite as yet, but I think it will be simple and will work nicely.

SS mesh sounds like it would work quite well if it were the right size and type, but would be much more work than a quick sewing expedition...maybe might look at that as an upgrade later on, would definately making cleaning easy.

I'll have to look into paint strainers, didnt think of that...love it.

Cheese cloth needs some investigating too.

As it stands my set-up is fairly standard. I have modified some 55L kegs to use as my hot liquid tank and boiler. I use a modified esky with a slotted copper pipe system in the bottom for my mash/lauter tun. I have an immerision chiller with I hate. It takes to long to chill it down to 4 degrees C (about 40 F I think), and heaps of attention too and fannying about. If I can get my chiller involved the process should be silky smooth.

Thanks again for your ideas...any more are still more than welcome.

Cheers

 

[djflesch]

I think that you have more of an engineering issue than has been fully appreciated so far. When you boil the wort, the hotbreak occurs. When the beer is chilled after the boil, the coldbreak occurs. This may seem obvious, but you are changing the typical location that these two events occur from both in the kettle, to one in the kettle and another in the lines.

When the hotbreak occurs, it occurs in the bulk fluid in the kettle and can easily be filtered off before you start to transfer the liquid to another pot (fermenter). A bazooka screen or something to this effect is a good solution because the solids are on the outside of the filter agent and can settle to the bottom of the kettle and never even start to hinder the flow of the liquid out of the kettle.

When one uses the typical wort chiller, the coldbreak is contained in the same way as the hotbreak. However, when you transfer hot liquid through filter (bazooka screen etc.) and chill it in the lines, the coldbreak occurs in the lines them selves. This is a serious clogging issue!

You have even specifically mentioned that there is a "thin stainless pipe which is coiled around in the water (that) has the beer pumpe(d) through". I obviously can't see an image of your setup, but this seems like a recipe for disaster! Any process that has a solid precipitating during a transfer through thin (or thick) lines is a setup for failure. You might get lucky once or several times, but over time you will end up with a clogged line or a blown pump--probably both.

Look at things from a volume perspective. If you are precipitating solids on the outside of the screen (in the kettle), then you have the volume of the kettle to have the solids settle out and only hinder the screen/filter a little bit--maybe only an inch or two of trub to flow through to get to the free flowing liquid. When the solid precipitates in the line however, the same volume of solid is forced into a small diameter tube and will clog the line, causing the liquid to be forced through many inches or feet of trub to get to the free flowing liquid. Any type of filtering process where the solid builds up at the end (ie a sock) is a bad idea. The optimal way to filter is to have the solids sit on the outside of the transfer line.

What ever way you are filtering off your hotbreak currently, chill the beer down with a wort chiller, then filter off the hot and cold break while still in the kettle.

I'm also not sure if you can control the temperature of the liquid coming out of the chiller that you have, but once it is transfered from your kettle, it is going to the fermemter. If your beer is near freezing, or even serving temperatures, then it is way to cold to be pitching yeast and you will have some serious fermentation lag!

Anyway, think about these things and get back to us on further details of you setup, considering my comments.

EDIT: If you are brewing lagers or want ultra clear beer, then considering chilling it down and filtering out the hot an cold break in the kettle, then still running the wort through your chiller to precipitate out only a small amount of solid--this would probably not clog the lines, though you would certainly want to be cautious about how much solid you still see after your typical current process to determine how much might get stuck in the line. A cheesecloth would be good for this over SS (like a bazooka screen) because the pore size is much smaller.

 

[nabs478]

You raise an interesting point...

First, I can do a whirlpool in the kettle before I draw of the hot wort or even use some screening. I can easily avoid sending the hot break through the chiller.

Second, the "thin line", while it is not that thick, it is not super fine. I was referiing to it with respect to the copper pipe that runs next to it. I think the stainless pipe is probably about 5-8mm diameter at a guess, while the copper pipe is about 15-18mm. But this is probably still an issue. I am very interested in lager brewing, and have brewed one alredy. It was the issues with cooling it down to 4 degrees C. that made me want to use the chiller.

While I think you may well be right about it clogging, I wouldnt be too quick to say its a certainty. As long as there are no constrictions in the line after it's been chilled, I think that the tiny particles of cold break will probably keep flowing in the tube. And they will definately be tiny, because any single peice of cold break will have precipitated out from the wort that was close to it in the tube...which will be a tiny volume of wort due to the small diamater. So it's not like I will be attempting to pump massive clumps of cold break through at any one time.

I plan to force the beer through the lines by pressurising the vessel containing the wort with either compressed air or CO2. Although I guess if the wort was still hot at this stage using compressed air would give a fair bit of hot side aeration...hhmm, I guess CO2 would be better. But that will ensure I dont blow a pump anyway...

Incidently, what temperature is it recommneded to chill the wort down past before aerating it for fermentation?

Definately needs some more thought...thanks for your input, I may have a serious problem here...but I think I might have to give it a go and see what happens!

 

[Bearcat Brewmeister]

When one uses the typical wort chiller, the coldbreak is contained in the same way as the hotbreak. However, when you transfer hot liquid through filter (bazooka screen etc.) and chill it in the lines, the coldbreak occurs in the lines them selves. This is a serious clogging issue!

I can't recall ever hearing about cold break clogging a counterflow wort chiller and this set up seems similar, although most folks don't have a filter tight on the end either. If a bazooka screen or similar is used to filter hot break/hops in the kettle, only minimal filtering is needed at the outlet end. It doesn't need to be tight on the end of the line to filter. Many people use some type of funnel with screen in the top of the carboy and let the cooled wort splash through it. Not only does this filter the cold break, but the movement of the wort through the mesh and dropping into the carboy provides necessary aeration to the wort.

If you are going to use a secondary fermenter, a small amount of cold break getting into the primary isn't the worst thing in the world. It will add nutrients for the yeast and should drop at some point in primary or secondary fermentation.

 

[nabs478]

There will not be a filter tight on the end of the chilled line, it will be poured out of the line and into the bucket/filter device that I originally asked about.

Can someone post the temperature at which wort should be cooled to before its aerated?

I dont think I will get a chance do get this set-up cranking until the weekend of Aug 4th and 5th, but will let youknow how I go with it.

Thanks again for everyones input

 

[dibby33]

Thanks for all the input, this forum is heaps more active than the Aussie version.

Hi Nabs478,
Welcome! I am down in cold Tassie. There are about 6 Australians on here now I think! ...maybe time to arrange a beer swap
I don't like the australian forum, I find it too hard to use and don't have the time to spend getting used to it. This forum is great, people are down to earth and not too many EACs (PM me if you don't know what it is!) blabbering on and on.

All you have to do is to get used to the silly american way of measurements!

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

Hi Nabs478,
Welcome! I am down in cold Tassie. There are about 6 Australians on here now I think! ...maybe time to arrange a beer swap
I don't like the australian forum, I find it too hard to use and don't have the time to spend getting used to it. This forum is great, people are down to earth and not too many EACs (PM me if you don't know what it is!) blabbering on and on.

All you have to do is to get used to the silly american way of measurements!

Like it's our fault you aussies never learned to convert a furlong into bushels.

 

[dibby33]

Like it's our fault you aussies never learned to convert a furlong into bushels.

Two bushes in the hand is worth a long furry?

 

[rabidgerbil]

I use a home built CF chiller, and have not once had the cold break clog my lines. I did have a bunch of hops clog it up once, but now that I use a hop bag, and whirlpool the pot, that has never happened again. I am thinking that I would like to find a way to filter out the cold break, but I can not think of a good way to go it with my current methods. I currently run the CF straight into my carboy, which has been sanitized and then purged with CO2. Instead, I would have to go into a bucket first, and then into the carboy, and it just seems like one more place to open myself up to contamination.

 

[kinison_fan]

Another option for your filter material that I have heard of people using-white nylon stockings. Not the full pantyhose, but the knee high stockings.
Here in the States they are cheap (several pairs for less than a buck), supposedly nylon is OK at wort boiling temp.

I have personally never tried them, but they sound like a good, cheap (and disposable) option.

 

[Bellybuster]

I too disput the cold break clogging line issue. I use a plate chiller, the cold break obviously forms inside the chiller. The pathways for wort are much smaller than any tubing and I have no clogging issues except hop stuff which a good whirlkpool fixes.
Nabs.... I kinda doubt your chiller setup will have the cooling capacity to handle boiling wort. The first bit will be fine but once the chilling water temp gets up the chiller will have to work pretty hard to keep it down. There's a pretty high temp delta between boiling and pitching temp.
As far as proper pitching temps...it depends on the yeast being used but I always chill to around 70 degrees Farenheit or less

 

[Bellybuster]

have you tried fermenting with the cold break in the fermenter??? I never seperate the cold break out and have no issues. When I used an immersion chiller I left the cold break behind and I see no difference in the finished product.
Sorry. I have no answer for your initial question

 

[Jesse17]

The wort is vulnerable to oxidation at anything over 80° F. (~ 26° C I think) it shouldn't be aerated until it's below that.

 

[WSJ]

The wort is vulnerable to oxidation at anything over 80° F. (~ 26° C I think) it shouldn't be aerated until it's below that.

So, using CF chiller and sending the worth directly to fermenter is totally OK if the stuff exits at <26° C.

My home made CF can do that with no problems and I do not get _ice_ cold water from tap.
nabs478 if you got plenty of ice cold water and your cooling unit can keep cooling it, you are probably fine. I use 8 m of tube. How long is the tube in your chiller?

nabs478, why not test it out with same amount of boiling water and see what happens.
If it cant cool the water, it can not cool your worth.

BTW, you can control the exit temperature (actually the exit flow) with flow rate adjusting clamp on the worth exit tube.