Home grown barley

[sfish]

I am a beginning brewer.

Does barley need to be roasted after malting to be used to make beer? I understand it need to dry.

and this leads into

Is extra light malt extract I purchased roasted?

 

[BansheeRider]

I am a beginning brewer.

Does barley need to be roasted after malting to be used to make beer? I understand it need to dry.

and this leads into

Is extra light malt extract I purchased roasted?

I am a noob to AG but I assume base malt is not roasted but some specialty grains are.

 

[helibrewer]

I am a beginning brewer.

Does barley need to be roasted after malting to be used to make beer? I understand it need to dry.

and this leads into

Is extra light malt extract I purchased roasted?

The malting process needs to be stopped. This is usually done through kilning with base malts. I believe it is about the time the rootlets are approx 3" and the acrospire is "wrapped" around the inside of the kernel husk.

 

[prohl84]

Simple answer- Not roasted - base malts are dried/ kilned at 100-125*F until there is only around 2-6% moisture. This prevents denaturing of the enzymes necessary in the mash. Pale and pilsner malt are dried lowest and darker base malts like munich will be at the higher end of that temperature range.

I have not yet tried to grow barley but I like roasting my own specialty grains from base malt and I recommend doing that as a starting point. I have tried malting but it is a ton of work and (with my limited 'malting' equipment) I can only make a lb. or so at a time... it would take me about two weeks to malt and roast all the grain I would need to make one full batch of my typical amber ales. Not trying to discourage you since I would love to go field to tun someday at least once for the fun of it.

Using existing 2-row: Toasting/ roasting base malts is easiest; crystal/ caramel is considerably more difficult/ time consuming. Base malts from raw barley are most difficult to make.

I would also recommend a step or decoction mash for homemade base malts since they are almost guaranteed to be undermodified.

I can't explain it to you as well as these people...

This is pretty much how I do it. A 3 part-er (Note for some reason I have to get part 2's link from part 3 since the link from part 1 appears to be broken).
http://barleypopmaker.info/2009/12/08/home-roasting-your-malts/

here is some okay info on necessary procedures to create base malt
http://byo.com/stories/item/1092-make-your-own-malt

Finally one from our own forums- this thread is filled with a TON of info that can be applied to barley especially in regard to diy malting equipment. Definitely look through this thread.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f164/malting-gluten-free-grains-135919/

Not to be condescending but have you ever grown barley before? My understanding of grain crops is that post harvest processing (threshing/ winnowing) can be a PITA if you're not set up to do it. Be sure to document everything and share what you learn- for beer and for science!

 

[JR_Brewer]

Good answer from prohl84, I think the BYO article he references really sums up the malting process.

To sfish - are you looking into growing barley and malting it yourself, or do you ask for another reason?

 

[sfish]

I thank you very much for the information. . .........

Yes grow my own but not this year. I was reading on barley malting and just could not find for sure if pale malt was roasted. I do not mean dried. Planning on making my first a all grain beer sometime later this year

I brewed 2 batches this year a golden pilnser and a strong belgium ale 10.5 abv my 6 and 7 batch of extracted brew. the other 5 were back in 2005.

I do plan on planting hops this year as a start.

Recommed any barley types to plant?

 

[prohl84]

If you're already growing barley then you have more experience with that than I do but... they're all spring: Harrington, Hockett, and Conlon are the only two-row malting barley varieties I know of:

here's a link to some harrington
http://www.fullcircleseeds.com/product/harrington-malting-barley/

Robust is a six-row malting variety

I don't know anything about their different growing characteristics.

Other than that Maris Otter is the only winter barley approved for malting AFAIK.

I will be in my third hops season this spring and I am excited. There is a wealth of knowledge regarding that particular subject here. You came to the right place.

 

[prohl84]

I should add that I used a food dehydrator that has a digital temperature control between 90 and 165 to make my base malt. Which worked out pretty well.

As for roasting I am still on baking sheets- eventually I will get a stove top coffee roaster in order to get more even color. As it stands I may have some kernels that are medium roast- 60 L and some that are 120 L still great for beer. According to what you're brewing though roasting may not be of much concern- but if you can make base malt you can easily make specialty grains. My first attempts at caramel malt turned out better than I expected.

here's the drum roaster from morebeer... er coffee. Weird you can get to the coffee site from the beer site but not the other way around.
http://morecoffee.com/products/modified-whirleypop-popper-6-quart-50550f-thermometer.html

 

[sfish]

I should add that I used a food dehydrator that has a digital temperature control between 90 and 165 to make my base malt. Which worked out pretty well.

I am trying to understand and I think I get it. So you use the dehydrator to dry the barley after malting? With my though process I have a distintion between roasting and drying.

Does barley need to be malted? I read malting transforms the seed and creates the enzimes necessary needed to convert starch to sugar. But can you use a percentage of crushed seed to malted barley and convert the starch? Is this what a moon shinner would do with corn crusch it seen then add a enzime extract?

 

[microbusbrewery]

I think it's funny that home malting is being discussed in the beginner forum

 

[prohl84]

Yeah... first you germinate the grains until the acrospire (sprout not rootlet) is 2/3-3/4 the length of the kernel. This is when enzymes are released and starch modification begins. Then you want to stop it from going too far (plant begins metabolizing the sugars) so you dry the grains and de-chit (knock off the sprouts and rootlets) which can be done by shake- rolling the grains on screens after they are or as they dry.

If you have a small enough quantity you can air dry it by laying it out flat on screens- heat is only necessary to speed up the process at this point and can damage the necessary enzymes for mashing.

Once they are dry then you can roast them- though I think you can make caramel malt when the base malt is still wet.

You are correct to assume that not all of the barley needs to be malted. A malt's ability to convert starch into sugar is known as diastatic power (DP) and degrees lintner (not to be confused with degrees lovibond) is the number indicating a grain's DP. You need 30-35 lintner to convert a pound of grain and a pound of modern commercial 2 row can be as high as 140 lintner and 6 row can be as high as 160 - crystal malt has been kilned high enough that its enzymes have been denatured so it has a DP of 0 lintner.

I don't know the actual formula but that basically means you can use one pound of (well-modified, commercial) 2 row malt to convert itself and about three or so additional pounds of adjunct (unmalted grain/ starch input) though I would hesitate to use 3 lb adjunct to one lb malt and I would mash it forever.

 

[sfish]

I thank you for your responce to my questions.

I sse this was the wrong place to ask. Thought because I was a beginner. Well anyway when and if I go down this road I will let you know prohl84

 

[prohl84]

I thank you for your responce to my questions.

I sse this was the wrong place to ask. Thought because I was a beginner. Well anyway when and if I go down this road I will let you know prohl84

No this is definitely the right place to ask. Microbusbrewery is referencing the fact that this topic is well beyond the concerns of most beginning brewers.

Hell I'm sure it is safe to say most experienced brewers don't even malt their own.

Usually you see this sort of thing in the ingredients; science; or diy threads. When I was a beginner I was worried about contamination and boil off rate. Damn... I haven't progressed much.

 

[prohl84]

I meant to post this earlier. A diagram of a malting barley kernel from John Palmer's "How to Brew." A good online resource if you need brewing info. The rootlets are likely going to be longer than the kernel itself but the acrospire is what matters most.

 

[microbusbrewery]

No this is definitely the right place to ask. Microbusbrewery is referencing the fact that this topic is well beyond the concerns of most beginning brewers.

Yep, that's what I meant. Props for being courageous enough to try this when you're first starting out.

 

[Hamaki]

I didn't grow barley but did make my own malt when first starting out. I thought it would be a fun experiment and it was. I was successful, to varying degrees, with five or six batches and lost several batches to mold. I can buy bags of base malt cheaper than I can make my own with MUCH more reliable results so I haven't malted in a long time. I think it's a good idea for any homebrewer to give it a try at least once or twice.

 

[sfish]

Thanks microburbrewery & prohl84 for your help or support.

I will keep asking questions. The malting process seems like I could handle it.

When using unmalted barley: does it change the brew in any way? I would assume it can be roasted as well. My thought process it to grow a bushel and malt half or so.

Thank you in advance,
sfish

 

[prohl84]

Thanks microburbrewery & prohl84 for your help or support.

I will keep asking questions. The malting process seems like I could handle it.

When using unmalted barley: does it change the brew in any way? I would assume it can be roasted as well. My thought process it to grow a bushel and malt half or so.

Thank you in advance,
sfish

Because of all the chemical changes that happen during malt I assume it would change the final product to some degree. As I said a few posts back I would mash much longer than my usual 60min to make sure the enzymes have time to convert everything. I would also probably do a step or decoction mash at protein rest temp to get a maltier tasting beer.

Roasted barley is not malted though it is hulled; I don't think flaked barley is malted either. You can't make crystal/ caramel w/o malting but that is about it AFAIK.

Finally, unmalted grain- at least in the case of rye- is harder than malted grain. I would set the mill gap wide open and run all of the unmalted through just to crack it a bit before trying to actually crush it.

 

[sfish]

I have searched a couple weeks back on line for 2 row barley seeds and did not find a supplier with seeds in stock. So I contacted my local HBS then they said most likley in March and they would let me know. They have now said no they can not get seeds this year.

Does someone here have some seed they could spare?

TIA
sfish

 

[Hamaki]

I have searched a couple weeks back on line for 2 row barley seeds and did not find a supplier with seeds in stock. So I contacted my local HBS then they said most likley in March and they would let me know. They have now said no they can not get seeds this year.

Does someone here have some seed they could spare?

TIA
sfish

You should be able to order through Azure Standard or similar sources on line.

 

[Schol-R-LEA]

When using unmalted barley: does it change the brew in any way? I would assume it can be roasted as well. My thought process it to grow a bushel and malt half or so.

Yes, significantly, though you want to be careful about unmalted grain, as it tends to produce starch and protein hazes in large amounts. There are styles which depend on using larger amounts of unmalted grain, most notably lambics (which can be up to 50% raw wheat), but it is important to recall that almost all beers use malted grain for the base (the major exceptions being millet beer, chicha, and sake). Unmalted grain is mostly long-chain starches, and hasn't developed a significant amount of some crucial enzymes (e.g., beta amylases), which means it can't self-convert the starches and dextrins to fermentable sugars. This is why unmalted grain is seen as an adjunct rather than a main component.

Raw barley (usually flaked), in small amounts, can improve the body a beer, provided that the base malt has enough diastatic power to convert it. Because of haze issues, it is mostly used in dark beers. Roasted barley, used in small to moderate amounts, is a mdefining component of modern stouts, where it gives a very dark color and strong roasted flavor; smaller amounts are used to give a red color to light colored beers. As I said earlier, lambics use large amounts of raw wheat, but like with hefeweizen, a certain amount of haze is an expected part of the style (a true wild lambic can only come from a specific region of Belgium in any case, though with the appropriate cultures you can imitate it effectively).