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c.n.budz

c.n.budz

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I may have gotten myself in over my head...

Well, I've never been one to half ass something that I want to do... I started out as a loan officer for a mortgage company and now 3 years later I own a mortgage company(a reputable one, thank you very much)

Tonight I convinced my business partners that it would be a good idea to branch out and finance a brewing company... So, long story short, I now have an attorney working on a distributor's license and roughly 20-30K in capital to buy equiptment and take a class or two with the Siebel Institute, and the owner of one of the local brewpubs is going to let me train under him for awhile. The double bonus is a wine distributor that I know is going to introduce me to the head brewer of a well known East Coast brewery(that shall remain unnamed for the moment, until it actually happens) so I can pick his brain. The best part is all I have to do is brew, the business end is taken care of by people that enjoy doing that stuff.

I've been brewing for about 8 months(yeah, I know I'm still a noob, but I learn best by jumping in head first), and since then all I can think about is brewing(it's actually cut into my normal work productivity) and now that I've sold the idea I have to deliver...

Obviously this is going to start out small, but I already a few local bars willing to stock my brew. But, at this point I'm fairly clueless as to what to do next... I'm not trying to become a huge regional brewer, but if I can distribute to local bars and liquor stores I'll be a very happy camper....

My next step is looking for equiptment, I'm thinking something like 2 or 3 of these http://morebeer.com/view_product/16163/102277 to start, unless someone has a better idea. I figure I need to brew that much minimum to make it worth it... I've been working on recipes and have a couple fairly simple, tasty brews. But, again, I looked before I leapt and now I have to actually do it...

I'm asking for any help, advice, guidance, assistance, success stories, failure stories, humbling kicks to the shorts, etc...

Sorry for the long post.
 
I think it's great that you are stepping up to the plate, it takes a lot of courage. I believe if you brew with passion your beer will come out amazing! (Look at John Maier)
Good luck!:mug:
 
cnbudz the only advice that i could give you, not having worked in the brewery industry myself, is keep your head about you. but from the sounds of it you have handled the business aspect of it, just don't get over zealous in the brewery. I worked in the restaurant industry for a while, went to culinary arts school too, and i know it can be a head ache, but most breweries out there now have a brew pub also, something to think about. Opening a restaurant is a whole other animal in and of itself.

But if you are going to get into it why not start with at least a 2 or 5 bbl system? Just thinking ahead some. You should be able to find some decently priced used equipment.

Keep us up on whats going on and let us know when we can expect to see your beer on the shelves! Good luck man!

Cheers
 
Well first off, I'm jealous.:mug:

If you have a brewing capacity of 75 to 100 gallons (2 to 3 barrels?), I think you will run yourself ragged. If you happen to land some decent business you won't be able to keep up. I would even wonder if you could generate any revenue at that capacity. Remember, your fermenters will be tied up for 2 to 3 weeks at a time.

Now I must tell you, I'm a home brewer that doesn't know $hit about business so take what I say with a grain of salt.:drunk:
 
I figure I have to start small and my other business will make up for the lack of profit until I can get going for real. It's a long term thing at this point and I won't do it fulltime for awhile, but either way the opportunity to brew for real and not have to worry about the business end has me excited in a way that can't be discussed in the "general discussion" section
 
+1 with RichBrewer. The biggest problem for all size of brewery in our neck of the woods is keeping up with demand. They simply can't do it. If you're going to get into a business to succeed then do your best to prevent yourself from doing things now that will prevent your success in the future. The capital costs for start up can be amortized over a LONG time. A year or two from now you can always not spend money on not brewing if things are slow. Please keep posting updates.
 
So what are you looking at for a brewing system? Are you thinking as small as a morebeer or sabco brew sculpture kind of thing or a larger commercial type system? Sounds like a lot of fun.
 
If you're serious you'll need to get a system that can brew on a much larger scale, like one of the 5dbl systems or something; either that or purchase equipment that is scalable. With 20-30k in start-up, you should really ensure that any money spent on fixed costs isn't something you will need to replace any time soon.
 
I have no advice, but I will offer my congratulations and best wishes. Good luck!
 
You can always brew smaller batches in a bigger system...

Good luck! Sounds like a lot of fun

Hey do you need a mash tun grunt?
 
Sounds like a dream come true. I would also recommend that you go with at least a 5 bbl system. If not, you could be brewing everyday (sometimes twice a day) to keep up with demand.

Something else to think about is packaging. How will the local bars that you've talked to be receiving your beer? In bottles, cornies?

If bottles then you're going to need to either invest in some bottling equipment or find a place that already has some and see if you can buy some time from them to use it.

If you're kegging you may have to look at kegs larger than cornies. From the people that I know in the business, most bars frown upon cornies because they will usually have to change them out at least once *every* night. That of course is a good thing for you because it means that you're moving more beer, but it's a bad thing for the bar owner who would much rather have 1/2 bbl kegs that he only has to change out a few times a week.

Either way - if you're kegging then you are going to have to invest quite a bit in kegs themselves. If you're going to go with 1/2 bbl kegs then you're going to have to invest even more in the specialty equipment required to clean and fill them.

I know the owner of the local Scottish/Irish pub that I head to once in a while and he says that he'll go through 2 - 3 kegs (1/2 bbl) of Guiness over a weekend (to him a weekend is thurs night - Sat night). That would equal 6-9 cornies over a weekend, and that's just one customer. You're going to need A LOT of kegs!

Best of luck to you! :mug:
 
Wow, dude, good for you. I wish you the best of luck!

Check out this site. I've watched Taylor build that place from the ground up, and while I don't think you'll be doing the 3000bbl capacity that he has (he's bottling and selling retail in addition to the brewpub), it's still helpful to see examples. I bet you could e-mail him through the "contact us" link and pick his brain, too...he's a really nice guy and always eager to help. Check out his construction photos too. Might give you some idea of what you're in for, at least to a certain extent.
 
the_bird said:
When you get everything squared away and are actually brewing, can I come down and help?
Click to expand...

All will be welcome, and paid with beer.

I'm starting to lean towards a 5bbl to start at this point, maybe 2 of them so I can have different brews going at the same time. I want to start small and not blow all my financing on equiptment and then not have any customers. One of the bars that already said they'd carry my brew has about 35-40 beers on tap so I doubt they'll go through my stuff too quickly.

I want to avoid bottling for now and just keg, when some liquor stores agree to carry my stuff then I'll worry about bottling/canning. There's a micro up the street from me that cans their brew so I'm going to look into renting time from them if need be.

Something tells me that as this project gains steam my life is going to become way more hectic...
 
cnbudz, Schooner Exact Brewing Company here is Seattle started out similarly to what you have stated above. They are brewing on a 1/2 bbl system and basically producing one keg at a time. They are now looking to expand to a 3bbl system.

Our business plan at Naked City has us starting with at least a 7bbl system. But we also plan on building out a taproom with a small kitchen. This way we can sell that keg retail a pint at a time through the tap room for $480 as opposed to the $110 wholesale to a local bar. I don't want to get into the full blown restaurant business right away either so the kitchen will be an "order at the bar" type setup with simple sandwiches soups and salads. Just something to keep people in the seats. This model has proven successful at a couple of other local breweries. We will self distribute initially and already have a few accounts lined up.

Good luck in your venture and let me know if I can help out in any way.
 
DaveyBoy said:
I have no advice, but I will offer my congratulations and best wishes. Good luck!
Click to expand...

Well said. You already know we are all jelious and wish you the best of luck. :ban:

Let me know if you want to franchise in central ohio, I'll work for ya. :rockin:
 
As an attorney the advice/comment I can offer is that you should hire an alcoholic beverage lawyer, in addition to your normal business lawyer, if you haven't already. The federal/state/local laws regarding manufacture, distribution and sale of alcohol are generally unfamiliar to a typical lawyer, and you don't want to be paying a lawyer hourly who is learning on the job. Find someone that specializes in that type of law.

If you're having trouble finding one, let me know and I'd be happy to help you find one in your area.:mug:
 
I'm at my undisclosed wifi location having lunch and enjoying a Breckenridge Vanilla Porter. (I may have to post this in that thread as well.) I understand that they will be phasing this out.... :(.

Here's the take away for you. It is served here way too cold and in a frosted mug to boot. Its a completely useless beer when served that way. I have them put it in a glass right from the dishwasher. THAT MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE.

You will not be able to tightly control this as a brewer.


I'm not sure if this is feasable, but you may have to brew for this kind of environment. As homebrewers we brew beer and serve at the correct temperature and pressure. Is it possible to compensate for the LCD when formulating your recipies?
 
frothdaddy said:
As an attorney the advice/comment I can offer is that you should hire an alcoholic beverage lawyer, in addition to your normal business lawyer, if you haven't already. The federal/state/local laws regarding manufacture, distribution and sale of alcohol are generally unfamiliar to a typical lawyer, and you don't want to be paying a lawyer hourly who is learning on the job. Find someone that specializes in that type of law.

If you're having trouble finding one, let me know and I'd be happy to help you find one in your area.:mug:
Click to expand...

I'm a lawyer who enjoys alcoholic beverages. Does that count?
 
olllllo said:
I'm at my undisclosed wifi location having lunch and enjoying a Breckenridge Vanilla Porter. (I may have to post this in that thread as well.) I understand that they will be phasing this out.... :(.

Here's the take away for you. It is served here way too cold and in a frosted mug to boot. Its a completely useless beer when served that way. I have them put it in a glass right from the dishwasher. THAT MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE.

You will not be able to tightly control this as a brewer.


I'm not sure if this is feasable, but you may have to brew for this kind of environment. As homebrewers we brew beer and serve at the correct temperature and pressure. Is it possible to compensate for the LCD when formulating your recipies?
Click to expand...

Luckily one of the bars that has agreed to carry my beer is adamant about serving beers properly, correct glass and temp for the specific beer.

My main beer is an amber ale and as long as it's not served ice cold it's fairly forgiving.

Well, my customer base is growing!! I've been contracted to supply a local rugby league(about 10 teams) with all of the beer for their postgame drink-ups and other events. I've seen the way these guys drink and I may need a 10bbl system for them alone...

I'm still working on the legal aspects, but at least I know I'll have some customers.

Thanks everyone for all the encouragement and advice:mug:
 
cnbudz said:
I've been brewing for about 8 months(yeah, I know I'm still a noob, but I learn best by jumping in head first), ....

but I already a few local bars willing to stock my brew.
Click to expand...

Just curious how you got commitments from the bars all things considered?
What volume have you committed to and what schedule?


check out this site and thread:
http://www.probrewer.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5567



Best of luck!!
 
brewt00l said:
Just curious how you got commitments from the bars all things considered?
What volume have you committed to and what schedule?


check out this site and thread:
http://www.probrewer.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5567



Best of luck!!
Click to expand...

I know the owners of the bars. As for volume, at the moment it's going to be fairly limited, basically what I can supply. If it sells well the volume will increase. Like I said, I'm keeping this very small at first and will grow as the demand does. The last thing I want to do is try to go too big too soon. One of the brewpub owners I've talked to started selling his beer as part of gift baskets and just grew from there as he was able to.
 
cnbudz said:
I know the owners of the bars. As for volume, at the moment it's going to be fairly limited, basically what I can supply. If it sells well the volume will increase. Like I said, I'm keeping this very small at first and will grow as the demand does. The last thing I want to do is try to go too big too soon. One of the brewpub owners I've talked to started selling his beer as part of gift baskets and just grew from there as he was able to.
Click to expand...

Is it a "so you're going into the beer business, yeah sure" with out any actual product or have they sampled the product, ect?
 
cnbudz said:
They've sampled the product, we've worked out pricing, etc
Click to expand...

Awesome! If you don't mind discussing, what style(s) you're planning on starting off with? Any additional compliance issues with distribution to retail in your state? Keg, bottle or both? Have you gone though any TTB approval for labels?
 
Just kegging for now to keep things as simple as possible. I'm going with my Amber Ale for my main beer and a Porter to supplement. I'll branch out from there. I've been able to brew the Amber consistently and the recipe is pretty basic and fairly cheap.

I've got an attorney doing all the legal crap that would make me pull my hair out. I'm still in the early stages on this so it's a work in progress
 
Way to go. Always room enough for another microbrew on tap.

If you decide to capture the female audience, the "Blue Balls Belgian Wit" in the recipe secton has 3,500 hits so it must be doing something right.

I haven't met a female yet who didn't love it.

Maybe it's the name that gets em...
 
cnbudz said:
Just kegging for now to keep things as simple as possible. I'm going with my Amber Ale for my main beer and a Porter to supplement. I'll branch out from there. I've been able to brew the Amber consistently and the recipe is pretty basic and fairly cheap.

I've got an attorney doing all the legal crap that would make me pull my hair out. I'm still in the early stages on this so it's a work in progress
Click to expand...

Sounds like you have stuff well under way. When you have your brewers notice in hand hoist one for me!
 
so, I got all of my licensing paperwork today... The "agent" at the liquor control board was very helpful, but the stack of applications he sent me looks quite daunting.:(

I also may have found an alternative to buying a bunch of equipment for the moment. A brewery in Mass that only uses the facilities part time may be willing to let me use their space. I'm not crazy about this idea in a brewing context but it makes alot of sense in a business context since it would be really cheap. I might be spending more time in Mass soon...
 
Boy, that sounds like a real blessing, if you can get this venture off the ground without having to make a huge capital investment up-front. That's what kills so many new businesses, lack of capital, and I've been worried that you'd end up cutting it REAL close with the money you raised, if you ended up spending most of it on equipment. If you can get started using someone else's equipment, start getting your customer base built up, and have a semi-established business, it will be a LOT easier to get subsequent financing, once you have somewhat proven your business model.

That really is good, good news.
 
If it was within an hour or so drive, I'd help you out if I could. I'm pretty much as far away from "southern" MA as it gets, unless it happens to be in South Berkshire (don't know of any breweries down there). Still, it's a standing offer for free assistance on brew day, I'd love, just for giggles, to really get my hands involved in how a "real" brewery operates. Of course, the wife won't want to hear that, I could see her start twitching when we were watching a show about homebrewers quitting their day jobs to start breweries :D
 
The weird part out of all of this is I already have a bunch of customer lined up(they've had my beer and everything) it's the legal and logistical parts that are getting annoying right now...
 

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