Holy Cow, that's a long time (WLP820 Lag)

[lsnadon]

Howdy,

New to the forum, but a long time brewer (been doing it since Jimmy Carter signed the law in '79). I typically brew English and Belgian Ales, with the occasional wheat (yes, I know it's an ale) and Lager/Pilsener. Probably 90 to 95 % of my brewing is an Ale. About twice a year I brew with a lager yeast.

I am no stranger to lagers. I fully understand the differences with technique. I just wanted to share an experience I just had with my latest Pilsener -- the starter took forever to get going.

WLP820, got the starter going on Thursday of the week in question, on the stir plate (off and on) until brew day on Sunday. The mash and boil went without incident, nothing strange there, pitched the yeast early Sunday afternoon and waited.

And waited...

And Waited some more....

After just a little bit more waiting, finally there was some activity in the fermenter. Thursday at lunchtime. So what's that, roughly 4 full days for the yeast to kick in. Fermenting just fine right now at 54 degrees. Yeast was approx 60 degrees when pitched into the starter at 60 degrees. The starter was at 65 degrees when pitched into the fermenter at 65 degrees. The fermenter was put into my cold place and allowed to cool down to fermenting temp of 54.

A few things in retrospect that I could have done different - I never checked the starter to see if it actually "started". I normally never do, pitch from the vial into the flask, put it on the stir plate for a day or two, then pitch into the fermenter after force cooling the wort. Lesson #1 - make sure the yeast is working.

Larger starter. I pitched two vials into the flask. I should have made sure they started, then transferred the slurry off to another flask and grew even more yeast. I figure I underpitched - I just never had this issue before with my pilsenser. Lesson #2 - make sure there is enough yeast.

Finally, don't know what you'd call this one, but I believe I started the ferment too cold. In the past, I usually let the fermenter sit at 65 - 70 until the ferment starts, then move to my cool place for the remainder. Lesson #3 - make sure lesson #1 and #2 were followed and this one won't make a huge difference.

Do others have an issue with long lag times with lager yeasts and temps? I am curious how my experience compares with some of the others out there....

 

[wildwest450]

I'm not a lager "expert" but i've done a lot over the past year. I alway's give my lager starters a week minimum. Some seem to take 3 to 4 days easy to ferment, evan at room temp(mid to upper 60's). Then I cold crash for at least 2 to 3 days, they can take a while to fully drop out.

I have never had a problem with cold pitching. I typically decant, and pitch right from the fridge into low to mid 50's wort. I would suspect underpitching as you mentioned, possibly caused by rushing the starter.

 

[lsnadon]

Even though the lag time was a bit excessive, the fermentation seems to be going along just fine. For a pilsener/lager ferment, nothing is amiss - yes, there are some strange smells in my "cool spot" (which is an unused room in the house with the window open and the outside temp in the 20's at night and the 40's/50's during the day [fermenter has been a steady 52 - 55 degrees with window adjustments]), but nothing I have not smelled before - is that the smell diacetyl and sulfur? Nothing alarming, anyway - the same odors that have always been present when I brew a lager with WLP830.

OG on this was 1.051 and as of today, the FG is right about 1.014/1.015. I just moved the fermenter to a warmer spot for a diacetyl rest and I expect the fermentation will be done in another day or two with an FG of 1.012 or 1.013 - well within the expected range.

My reason for the post was to find out if there were any others that have had a long lag time with this yeast. I'm not overly alarmed, thank the brew gods for cleanliness as things went okay, it's just that I've never had this big of a lag - usually 4 to 6 hours is my lag time (even with the last pilsener I brewed). Beyond that time, I have to keep repeating Charlie's Mantra "relax, have a homebrew".