Winter Seasonal Beer Holly (Christmas Ale)

[bolus14]

I would go with 2.2. I haven't made this recipe but sounds like that would be ideal, don't want it to "flat" like a porter or stout or to the level of an IPA.

 

[Pyg]

Complete brain fart while making the tea.
I know in brewing that we mostly do everything by weight.
So is the tbsp actually a tablespoon worth or the weight equivalent of a tbsp (1/2 oz)
When I measured 1 tbsp it came out to be 1/4 of an oz in weight
.View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1476657903.231723.jpg
???

UPDATE.....
SWMBO talked me into following the recipe as written.
I chopped up everything and used a tbsp.
There all in a bowl
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1476660551.123392.jpg

 

[BrewCityBaller]

Complete brain fart while making the tea.
I know in brewing that we mostly do everything by weight.
So is the tbsp actually a tablespoon worth or the weight equivalent of a tbsp (1/2 oz)
When I measured 1 tbsp it came out to be 1/4 of an oz in weight
.View attachment 373754
???

UPDATE.....
SWMBO talked me into following the recipe as written.
I chopped up everything and used a tbsp.
There all in a bowl
View attachment 373765

DEFINITELY don't do 1/2 oz ginger. The ginger can get over powering in a hurry. Last year I used a tbsp and a half and it turned into a ginger bomb. It wasn't great. You have a keeper, she steered you right!

I bottled last night and I used 1/2 tbsp ginger, but I grate mine.

Did the spice tea smell amazing?

 

[Pyg]

DEFINITELY don't do 1/2 oz ginger. The ginger can get over powering in a hurry. Last year I used a tbsp and a half and it turned into a ginger bomb. It wasn't great. You have a keeper, she steered you right!



I bottled last night and I used 1/2 tbsp ginger, but I grate mine.



Did the spice tea smell amazing?

I cut up the ginger as small as possible. And use 1 tbsp.
The tea smelled like ginger/orange with a hint of vanilla-cinnamon.
I tasted what would not fit in the bottle and there was a Definite honey flavor.
I will give this plenty of time to age.

Last year I made a "ginger bomb".
The recipe I used called for 1 oz of cinnamon-orange peel-ginger.
I accidentally used 1 oz of ginger powder and it over powered everything.

This stuff should be very drinkable on a cold day, even with a touch more ginger. Especially at 8.1%
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1476666921.579859.jpg

 

[bolus14]

I did a quick search for yeast in the thread and it doesn't appear that there's ever been a clear answer given. I assume most are using a clean fermenting year, American Ale or S-05.

Any thoughts on using WLP090 or a Belgian strain, I'm thinking WLP545 as it's more or less become a house strain for me.

 

[CurrySomeFlavor]

Hi everyone, maybe it's laziness, or maybe I don't want to boil off any of my precious beer, but has anyone made the tea using a brown ale or honey brown ale instead of using some of the fermented wort? I am thinking about doing this so I don't have to worry about potential infection. Plus then I have another pint of the good stuff to drink at the end.

 

[BrewCityBaller]

Hi everyone, maybe it's laziness, or maybe I don't want to boil off any of my precious beer, but has anyone made the tea using a brown ale or honey brown ale instead of using some of the fermented wort? I am thinking about doing this so I don't have to worry about potential infection. Plus then I have another pint of the good stuff to drink at the end.

When you draw a quart of the beer to make the spice tea you are going to add it back into the bottling bucket, so there is zero volume loss. You are only boiling for a minute so I doubt much, if any, is lost to boil off. The only effect you will have is losing a little bit of alcohol. But even if you boil off all of the alcohol in the quart of beer (and I'm not convinced you will) you would only reduce your alcohol content by 0.4% in a 5-gallon batch. Even less so if your batch is bigger. You also definitely want to boil the spices and let them sit hot for 15 minutes. This draws out the flavor.

I did a quick search for yeast in the thread and it doesn't appear that there's ever been a clear answer given. I assume most are using a clean fermenting year, American Ale or S-05.

Any thoughts on using WLP090 or a Belgian strain, I'm thinking WLP545 as it's more or less become a house strain for me.

Original recipe calls for US-05 and that's what I always use. The yeast character really takes a back seat to the spices and hops on this one, so I prefer something as neutral as possible. WLP090 would probably be great, but I personally wouldn't use a Belgian strain. I don't think a clove or banana character would play nice with the others.

Edit: Just saw that White Labs recommends WLP545 for Christmas beers. Very interesting. I wonder if that would be for unspiced beers. My personal opinion still stands, but it could make for a fun experiment.

 

[MrAverageGuy]

Might just do that 545 for the next go ('cause this batch ain't gonna last)!

 

[bolus14]

I have never gotten banana or clove from 545, one of the big reasons I like it. I get more dark fruit and spicy phenols, not clove like spice though, maybe slight cinnamon...

I may just split that batch and see which i like more.

 

[CurrySomeFlavor]

When you draw a quart of the beer to make the spice tea you are going to add it back into the bottling bucket, so there is zero volume loss. You are only boiling for a minute so a doubt much, if any, is lost to boil off. The only effect you will have is losing a little bit of alcohol. But even if you boil off all of the alcohol in the quart of beer (and I'm not convinced you will) you would only reduce your alcohol content by 0.4% in a 5-gallon batch. Even less so if your batch is bigger. You also definitely want to boil the spices and let them sit hot for 15 minutes. This draws out the flavor.


I was planning on boiling the beer I bought, but I don't think that was clear in my original post. My beer will be in a carboy which will mean I would have to draw off a quart with a wine thief. I am worried about adding micro-organisms if I have to draw repeated with the thief. Do you think there will be any difficulty in flavours from the tea coming through if I use a different beer to boil as the base of the tea?

 

[BrewCityBaller]

When you draw a quart of the beer to make the spice tea you are going to add it back into the bottling bucket, so there is zero volume loss. You are only boiling for a minute so a doubt much, if any, is lost to boil off. The only effect you will have is losing a little bit of alcohol. But even if you boil off all of the alcohol in the quart of beer (and I'm not convinced you will) you would only reduce your alcohol content by 0.4% in a 5-gallon batch. Even less so if your batch is bigger. You also definitely want to boil the spices and let them sit hot for 15 minutes. This draws out the flavor.

I was planning on boiling the beer I bought, but I don't think that was clear in my original post. My beer will be in a carboy which will mean I would have to draw off a quart with a wine thief. I am worried about adding micro-organisms if I have to draw repeated with the thief. Do you think there will be any difficulty in flavours from the tea coming through if I use a different beer to boil as the base of the tea?

Ahhh I understand what you're saying. I was confused because your process is a lot different than mine. When I am transferring from fermentation to either my bottling bucket or a keg I just grab the quart of beer then. No need for a thief. Just another thought: at 8% ABV I would think there aren't too many microorganisms that could get in there and flourish enough to cause issues.

As for off flavors, I can't be sure. You would want to match the purchased beer as closely as possible, but even then you're still blending two beers. My gut says it's probably fine, but you won't really have any way of comparing or knowing.

 

[Mueltrain54]

I bought all my grains today, gonna brew tomorrow and hope this is ready by Christmas. The owner of my lhbs made a couple suggestions as far as tweaks so I figured I would post and see what those who have brewed this before think about them.

He suggested that I wait and add the honey a few days after the fermentation starts instead of at flame out, I think to preserve some of the aromatics and to help prevent a stuck fermentation.

He also suggested adding the spices to a few ounces of bourbon now, and then adding that to taste at bottling. Any thoughts on this vs the spice tea?

 

[BrewCityBaller]

I bought all my grains today, gonna brew tomorrow and hope this is ready by Christmas. The owner of my lhbs made a couple suggestions as far as tweaks so I figured I would post and see what those who have brewed this before think about them.

He suggested that I wait and add the honey a few days after the fermentation starts instead of at flame out, I think to preserve some of the aromatics and to help prevent a stuck fermentation.

He also suggested adding the spices to a few ounces of bourbon now, and then adding that to taste at bottling. Any thoughts on this vs the spice tea?

The honey technique is a mainstay in Belgian beers that use candi sugar. After a day or two of fermentation you add in the candi sugar. The general consensus is that yeast eat simple sugars first (like what is in candi sugar and honey), so if you add the simple sugars at the boil they will be consumed first. There is a thought that the yeast can tire themselves out eating all the simple sugar and then not have enough energy to eat the complex grain sugars. Like getting full on hotdogs before you go to a steak dinner. If you have a proper pitching rate I don't think there are a lot of downsides to this, and little risk of a stuck fermentation. I think you'll be okay though. I have made this 4 years in a row, adding honey to the boil, and I have always reached my desired FG.

Adding the spices to hard alcohol is also a totally valid technique. The biggest downside to this is that your going to get bourbon flavors in your beer as well! If that's okay with you then go for it. If you wanted to avoid this you could use vodka instead. A decent quality vodka wouldn't add any flavor to the beer in low amounts. Either way you'll be fine.

 

[Mueltrain54]

Brewed a 10 gallon batch of this today, hit my OG dead on, I'm excited for this one. Gonna add the honey midway into fermentation. I'm conflicted on which technique to use for the spices though. I'm certainly not against a little bourbon flavor, but I don't want to deviate too much from the tried and true recipe. If I go with the spice tea for a 10 gallon batch would I just double everything?

 

[BrewCityBaller]

Brewed a 10 gallon batch of this today, hit my OG dead on, I'm excited for this one. Gonna add the honey midway into fermentation. I'm conflicted on which technique to use for the spices though. I'm certainly not against a little bourbon flavor, but I don't want to deviate too much from the tried and true recipe. If I go with the spice tea for a 10 gallon batch would I just double everything?

Did you hit your OG numbers excluding the honey? Hopefully you already factored that in.

You're probably okay to double the spices, but I'd like to offer a word of caution on the ginger. Last year's batch I ended up with 6.5 gallons instead of 5, so I upped the ginger accordingly from 1 Tbs to 1.33 Tbs. I use freshly grated ginger. This was not a good move. It turned my beer into a ginger bomb and that was the first and last thing you tasted. Really disappointing. So this year I actually halved the ginger to 0.5 Tbs. All I'm saying is the ginger can be finicky.

 

[Sourz4life]

The honey technique is a mainstay in Belgian beers that use candi sugar. After a day or two of fermentation you add in the candi sugar. The general consensus is that yeast eat simple sugars first (like what is in candi sugar and honey), so if you add the simple sugars at the boil they will be consumed first. There is a thought that the yeast can tire themselves out eating all the simple sugar and then not have enough energy to eat the complex grain sugars. Like getting full on hotdogs before you go to a steak dinner. If you have a proper pitching rate I don't think there are a lot of downsides to this, and little risk of a stuck fermentation. I think you'll be okay though. I have made this 4 years in a row, adding honey to the boil, and I have always reached my desired FG.

Adding the spices to hard alcohol is also a totally valid technique. The biggest downside to this is that your going to get bourbon flavors in your beer as well! If that's okay with you then go for it. If you wanted to avoid this you could use vodka instead. A decent quality vodka wouldn't add any flavor to the beer in low amounts. Either way you'll be fine.

So just to add to this, its not a general consensus that they eat simple sugars first, its just something known about saccharomyces. They will eat the Glucose, then Fructose first then onto the rest. After eating the simple sugars the yeast don't get tired, as they would be in a full swing of their cycle and at that point would have probably finished their reproduction phase. Switching over to maltose or other harder sugars is seamless in most cases(I say in most cases as not all yeast will eat all types of sugars and some have issues with others). The only reason they would stop feeding is due to a issue with oxygenation, under pitching, to low of a pH or they have reached an environment that is beyond their alcohol tolerance.

 

[treacheroustexan]

Has anyone cut this batch in half? Looking for a christmas ale recipe to fill my 2.5 gal keg. This looks pretty good!

 

[Mueltrain54]

Did you hit your OG numbers excluding the honey? Hopefully you already factored that in.

You're probably okay to double the spices, but I'd like to offer a word of caution on the ginger. Last year's batch I ended up with 6.5 gallons instead of 5, so I upped the ginger accordingly from 1 Tbs to 1.33 Tbs. I use freshly grated ginger. This was not a good move. It turned my beer into a ginger bomb and that was the first and last thing you tasted. Really disappointing. So this year I actually halved the ginger to 0.5 Tbs. All I'm saying is the ginger can be finicky.

Yes I hit my expected OG exclusive of the honey. Thanks for the caution on the ginger, it's definitely the spice I'm most worried about. Out of curiosity did you taste the spice tea prior to bottling? I was thinking about making a test batch of the spice tea with water and adjusting the amounts of spices based on the taste.

 

[BrewCityBaller]

So just to add to this, its not a general consensus that they eat simple sugars first, its just something known about saccharomyces. They will eat the Glucose, then Fructose first then onto the rest. After eating the simple sugars the yeast don't get tired, as they would be in a full swing of their cycle and at that point would have probably finished their reproduction phase. Switching over to maltose or other harder sugars is seamless in most cases(I say in most cases as not all yeast will eat all types of sugars and some have issues with others). The only reason they would stop feeding is due to a issue with oxygenation, under pitching, to low of a pH or they have reached an environment that is beyond their alcohol tolerance.

Thanks for the amplification! I didn't know the science behind it and I didn't have a source, so I softened it with the general consensus Thank you for the explanation.

So with that being said, on this scale and in this case, would you expect any difference between adding the honey at flameout vs. a few days into primary?

Yes I hit my expected OG exclusive of the honey. Thanks for the caution on the ginger, it's definitely the spice I'm most worried about. Out of curiosity did you taste the spice tea prior to bottling? I was thinking about making a test batch of the spice tea with water and adjusting the amounts of spices based on the taste.

I did not taste my tea this year. That never even crossed my mind actually! Next year I'll have to give it a go, but this time it just went straight into the bottling bucket. Making a tea with water might not be a bad idea. If you end up doing that let us know how it goes.

 

[Sourz4life]

I guess it really depends who you ask. A mead maker would tell you to never heat honey up due to loss of flavor and other chemicals naturally in honey. I'd say as long as you are cooling the wort directly after flame out and not letting it sit in 180 F or above for more than a few minutes that you should be fine. That being said I'm sure at that temperature Something changes with in the honey but it shouldnt be significant enough. Adding the honey during fermentation should be fine but I would make sure that the honey you're using Isn't completely raw. Being a sugar source honey is likely to have multiple strains of yeast/bacteria in it especially when raw.

So if it were me, if it were raw I would throw it in at flame out if it were not raw honey you should be OK putting it in primary fermentation as at that point most other bacteria will be outcompeted by the yeast that you pitched.

 

[BrewCityBaller]

I guess it really depends who you ask. A mead maker would tell you to never heat honey up due to loss of flavor and other chemicals naturally in honey. I'd say as long as you are cooling the wort directly after flame out and not letting it sit in 180 F or above for more than a few minutes that you should be fine. That being said I'm sure at that temperature Something changes with in the honey but it shouldnt be significant enough. Adding the honey during fermentation should be fine but I would make sure that the honey you're using Isn't completely raw. Being a sugar source honey is likely to have multiple strains of yeast/bacteria in it especially when raw.

So if it were me, if it were raw I would throw it in at flame out if it were not raw honey you should be OK putting it in primary fermentation as at that point most other bacteria will be outcompeted by the yeast that you pitched.

Well that's great to know. I appreciate the input. I was just reading through the website for your brewery and it sounds like you really pride yourselves on your microbiology! Next year I will have to adjust my process and give this a try.

 

[MrAverageGuy]

Has anyone cut this batch in half? Looking for a christmas ale recipe to fill my 2.5 gal keg. This looks pretty good!

Yes, indeed - I also use the 2.5 gallon kegs, and have a half-batch of this one on tap right now. I overdid the ginger, but even so, this one is a crowd pleaser!

 

[treacheroustexan]

Yes, indeed - I also use the 2.5 gallon kegs, and have a half-batch of this one on tap right now. I overdid the ginger, but even so, this one is a crowd pleaser!

Awesome to hear! Just cut everything in half?

 

[MrAverageGuy]

Yes - exactly right. 50% of every ingredient (except the yeast). Boiled the "tea" in an Erlenmeyer, and added it, plus some gelatin, to the cold-crashed beer after I siphoned it into the keg. Came out clear, with a nice color and taste.

 

[bolus14]

Brewed this today, ended up using WLP 545 for the whole batch. My OG was low due to using too much water to start with doing BIAB. I mashed at 154 since I went with a Belgian yeast that seems to attenuate better than 001 or 090 have for me.
Looking forward to this one!! I will post on what I think of it with 545 a little after Thanksgiving, I think.

 

[Pyg]

First bottle opened, 3 week primary, 3 week bottle
Not overly ginger, slight cinnamon. Nice thick, heavy beer!View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1478644738.176115.jpg

 

[skraeling]

Just picked up the ingredients to make this beer today from my LHBS. Cant wait to bring this over to my parents for christmas even though it will still be pretty young. Wont be my first allgrain but will be my first all grain doing it solo.

 

[bolus14]

My batch has been in the fermenter for 2 weeks and is down to 1.006, a little lower than I was hoping given that I mashed high at 155/156, but WLP545 eats through sugar like a Saison strain so it's not overly surprising either. That'll put me at about 7.8ABV which is just about .5% lower than the OP.

Hydro sample was a little boozy and belgian funky, anything else was very muted, so it was hard to discern much of the actual flavors. It had what I would call signature 545 smell and taste, hints of dark fruit and cinnamon/black pepper smell and taste. I was hoping for a little more caramel like flavors in the taste, and who knows they might show up with a few weeks of aging. I let it ferment at 66/67 for a week and then raised it to 70 for the second week, I'm pretty sure it's done fermenting, so I'm going to move it to low 60 for a week or two and then bottle it up.

One thought I had to try to get some more caramel taste is to pull maybe 2 quarts of the beer for the tea but boil it down a little but to concentrate it, not to the point of candi syrup but thinking in that direction. I'm not saying I want to make candi syrup as that will kick up fermentation in the bottle and I'm not going there Again, this is only if the flavors don't come out with a little more aging, which I have had happen with using WLP545, it can lead you down an elusive path of what the end aroma and flavors will be. I would prefer not to stray anymore from the original recipe at this point so I may just ride it, a lot just depends on taste after it sat for a couple weeks.

 

[VipperOfVipp]

I brewed this beer back 2 months ago, put it in secondary after 3 weeks and was at 1.013. Boiled the two pints of beer, steeped the seasonings, and put it in secondary. Today I put it in the keg and there was little white specs all over the better bottle. I also discovered that the alcohol in the airlock had evaporated down over the last week, so that it could let air in. Final gravity was now down to 1.009. The beer tasted hot with alcohol and had a honey/apple juice flavor. Worried it is oxidized or infected, but hoping cold conditioning will cause a Christmas miracle!

Santa, please save my beer!

 

[Mueltrain54]

Couldn't wait more then a week to crack the first bottle. Tastes delicious already! I'm excited about this one. I'll post another picture once it finishes conditioning and I add my custom labels.