High IBU = Very hoppy, but NOT bitter

[Rainhard]

Was hoping someone had some input into this problem I have been having for a while now.

Every batch I make (more so for IPA's), the bitterness does not stand out. I've had the IBU in the ranges of 65 - 100 and there is little 'Bitterness' to them. I mean, they are Very hoppy and flavorful, but the bitterness is lacking.

Was thinking it could have to do with my water profile, which i don't have a report for (yet). I've tried adding 1 tsp of Gypsum, but that also didn't improve much.

Most of the time, I've been using Magnum, Chinook, or Simcoe for my 60 min additions... below is an example

USE TIME OZ VARIETY FORM AA
first wort 70+ mins 0.2 Simcoe pellet 12.2
boil 60 mins 0.3 Simcoe pellet 12.2
boil 60 mins 0.25 Sorachi Ace pellet 13.7
boil 20 mins 0.5 Amarillo pellet 9.3
boil 20 mins 0.5 Galaxy pellet 13.

Additional details:

Water is through normal water filter from fridge. - Brewing in Mississauga, ONTARIO
adding 1/2 - 1 tsp Gypsum
5.5G batches ALL GRAIN, fresh packaged hops

any thoughts? thanks

 

[weirdboy]

Well first wort hops are going to give you a smoother bitterness profile; that could be part of it.

Also I haven't done the math, but assuming a 5 gallon recipe, you are only adding very small amounts of bittering hops if you are really targeting 65-100 IBUs in your example. I would think more in the 2oz range would be more appropriate.

 

[phoenixs4r]

I noticed all my ipas that had Vienna turned out much sweeter than expected. What's your grain bill?

 

[Rainhard]

Weirdboy...... I've been using Hopville for my recipe formulations. IBUs are based off of that. Even in the batches without FirstWort Hops, it is the same.

I thought the amount of hops for bittering was low as well, but the IBU calculation Hopville spits out says otherwise, so I am not sure.


PHOENIX4rs: Example of one of my grain bills:

malt & fermentables
% LB OZ MALT OR FERMENTABLE PPG °L
78% 10 0 Canada Malting Canadian 2-Row 35 2 ~
8% 1 0 Corn Sugar (Dextrose) 46 0 ~
5% 0 10 Munich Malt 37 9 ~
4% 0 9 Caramel/Crystal Malt - 70L 34 70 ~
3% 0 7 Cara-Pils/Dextrine 33 2 ~
1% 0 2 Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L 34 40 ~
12 12


hops
USE TIME OZ VARIETY FORM AA
boil 60 mins 0.75 Magnum pellet 13.1
boil 20 mins 0.5 Citra pellet 13.4
boil 10 mins 0.25 Citra pellet 13.4
boil 5 mins 0.25 Citra pellet 13.4
boil 1 min 0.25 Amarillo pellet 7.0
boil 1 min 0.25 Citra pellet 13.4
dry hop 7 days 0.25 Amarillo pellet 7.0
dry hop 7 days 0.75 Citra pellet 13.4
Boil: 7.3 avg gallons for 60 minutes
Bitterness
69.1 IBU / 10 HBU
ƒ: Tinseth
BU:GU
1.32

 

[phoenixs4r]

Might be the Munich.

Kinda light on the 60 minute addition as well

 

[Rainhard]

what would the munich malt do to change the percieved bitterness? what about CaraMunich?

 

[weirdboy]

What gravity are your beers finishing at? What is your preboil volume?

I took a stab at entering the recipe in Beersmith and I get lower IBUs. I would try bumping up to maybe 1 or 1.25oz in the one above with Magnum. Not sure what the assumptions are that HopVille is using, but it could be any number of factors that account for the difference.

 

[phoenixs4r]

I've always felt munich and vienna add sweetness to an IPA. Most of my IPAs are mostly 2 row, with a hint of speciality malts. But i'm big fan of west coast IPA's, which are dry and kinda of punch in the face bitter.

 

[SouthBay]

seriously, if you want bitter, drop the Munich or Vienna. They add a malty backbone to the beer that take some good bittering hops to stand up against.

Up the bittering addition to provide a greater percentage of your IBUs. Anything after 20 minutes is MOSTLY going to be flavor and aroma, with minimal bittering.

 

[djfriesen]

I found Hopville's output to be a little different from what BrewTarget figures for IBUs. I'm not sure which is right, but from my experience, BrewTarget seemed to agree with more other sources than Hopville, so that's what I've decided to use. Just looking at it (I don't currently have my software in front of me), those hops quantities look low. Up them by ~50% and see what happens.

 

[beerkrump]

I found Hopville's output to be a little different from what BrewTarget figures for IBUs. I'm not sure which is right, but from my experience, BrewTarget seemed to agree with more other sources than Hopville, so that's what I've decided to use. Just looking at it (I don't currently have my software in front of me), those hops quantities look low. Up them by ~50% and see what happens.

This X 1000.

I just did the calc in my head and get IBUs around 40-50 for the last recipe posted. Your beers are not bitter because they are low on bittering hops. It is that simple. Check out some of the IPA recipes and you'll see people throwing ounces of Chinook, Apollo, Summit, and Warrior in at FWH and 60 min.

Don't be tenative and don't trust Hopville's bitterness calculator.

 

[logdrum]

There are several IBU algorithms out there (Tinseth, Rager, Garretz) all of which are somewhat different due to the utilization formula. Best advice is to pick one & stick with it-at least while fine tuning a recipe. If 65 IBUs in Hopville isn't bitter enough for you, tweak it until it is; don't fret about the number, it is really just a reference. Once you've hit your mark use that number as your target (in that program). Also, take in to account that varying levels of the different oils will translate as different bitter characteristics ie: Simcoe as a bittering hop has a much smoother character than Columbus or Magnum. Also, it's worth finding out what your water (and/or mash) pH is-generally lower values lead to a less bitter perception.

 

[stasop]

I've had a similar problem with my brew until I added more hops, especially front loading. Try different yeast types because some will bring out the malt more than liked.