High Fermentation temperature help

[mustardgas]

I just put my first mead together (an apple cyser) using 12 lbs of wildflower honey and 3 gallons of apple juice ( all natural). I pitched lavlin rc212 yeast and it seems to be doing well. Not a violent ferment, but the airlock is bubbling every few seconds. The problem, is that the place I am fermenting has an A.C. outage at the moment. The temp spiked to about 84 degrees for about 12 hours before I could put an evaporative cooler together and get the temp down to 78 degrees. I am very hesitant to move it since fermenting has started and I don't really like drinking wet cardboard. so my question is; does anyone have any experience with fermenting at higher temps like 78 degrees? since it is a cyser, esters aren't really an off flavor, but fusels would be. Am I screwed here, or will the rc212 still perform well? Please advise.

 

[Maylar]

Supposedly that yeast is OK to 86°. I'd be more worried about osmotic shock with that mix - did you take an initial gravity reading?

 

[mustardgas]

I am sad to report that I did not; though not for lack of trying. I realized when I starting putting everything together that I did not have a graduated cylinder; or anything similarly shaped for that matter. Is osmotic shock a concern if I have a decent ferment going?

 

[Shine0n]

I'm not familiar with the strain you used, but some are well adapted for high gravity worts. I do know 71-B does well with no off flavors at least any I can detect.
From what I just read on it, higher temps are recommended for full bodied reds and most of the reviews said it's great for a melomel, not sure about the cyser... Sorry but I'm sure it'll do well

 

[Maylar]

I am sad to report that I did not; though not for lack of trying. I realized when I starting putting everything together that I did not have a graduated cylinder; or anything similarly shaped for that matter. Is osmotic shock a concern if I have a decent ferment going?

My estimate for your starting gravity goes like this: 12 lb of honey in 3 gallons of water would be about 1.140 which is entering the 'experts only' realm. With apple juice instead of water there's another 50 points or so, and at 1.190 you have a real possibility of osmotic shock and a stalled ferment. RC212 is listed as high in nutrient requirements and you don't mention having used any.

You should find a way to measure SG like right now. If my numbers are correct, I'd recommend diluting that batch with a lot more juice.

 

[mustardgas]

I did add a yeast nutrient. My fermentation has not stalled yet (almost a week in). When will I see signs of osmotic shock or stalled ferment?

 

[Maylar]

Nobody can say if and when it'll happen. But I've seen batches at 1.170 that wouldn't even start, so at least you have something going.

 

[mustardgas]

I guess I will have to wait and see. So far, fermentation looks average. I'm just hoping it does not taste like fusels.

 

[madscientist451]

If it does, just rack it to some jugs, find a cool place to store them and taste it in a year or so.....
Time heals most things.

 

[mustardgas]

My estimate for your starting gravity goes like this: 12 lb of honey in 3 gallons of water would be about 1.140 which is entering the 'experts only' realm. With apple juice instead of water there's another 50 points or so, and at 1.190 you have a real possibility of osmotic shock and a stalled ferment. RC212 is listed as high in nutrient requirements and you don't mention having used any.

You should find a way to measure SG like right now. If my numbers are correct, I'd recommend diluting that batch with a lot more juice.

Would you recommend pitching extra yeast nutrient? I am about a week into primary.

 

[Shine0n]

Take a gravity reading and see where it is, you might be good for another addition. Do degas before hand or you may end up wearing some of it.
Have you been degassing everyday?

 

[mustardgas]

I had not been. I did today and went ahead and added some extra nutrient. Ferment may have stalled. I'm going to have to check it tomorrow and see what degassing and some nutrient did.

(Update) Fermentation did stall, but degassing and adding nutrient started it right up again. Wondering how many more times I should add nutrient? I Will continue to degas for a few weeks.

 

[Yooper]

I had not been. I did today and went ahead and added some extra nutrient. Ferment may have stalled. I'm going to have to check it tomorrow and see what degassing and some nutrient did.

(Update) Fermentation did stall, but degassing and adding nutrient started it right up again. Wondering how many more times I should add nutrient? I Will continue to degas for a few weeks.

You only want to degas during fermentation and the same for adding nutrients, so SG readings at this point are critical before doing anything.

 

[mustardgas]

Thanks everyone for all of the advise. I am getting plenty of activity in the airlock due to degassing and occasionally adding nutrient (when it slows). I took a small sample to taste and so far, so good. There is just a touch of warmth on the back end that isn't really surprising considering the accidentally high gravity of my must. Overall, it tastes like a honey-crisp apple. It is still very sweet, but with 3 weeks or longer to go, I am guessing that will even out some. Will take gravity readings as soon as the graduated cylinder I ordered arrives.

 

[mustardgas]

OK. By some miracle, or perhaps my persistence in replacement of better sense, that mead is still fermenting. @Maylar estimated my OG was somewhere around 1.190. (thanks for that info btw) I took a reading today (finally got a graduated cylinder) and it read 1.064. According to the calculator I downloaded, that gives me something like 16.75 abv. Now, I am fine with it being boozy, but after tasting it; it is still pretty sweet. What's more, lalvin rc212 is supposed to die off at 16%; so I am not sure how much longer my yeastie boys will survive. My question is, what, if anything, can I pitch to eat up a little more sugar? Can I do so without taking it all the way dry? Will said yeast survive in the absolute sewer I will be introducing it into? I think this batch has potential if I can get it to finish. The flavor is nice, it's just still too sweet. I await your combined knowledge, oh mighty internet machine. Thanks!

 

[Maylar]

I think I have some good news for you - my original estimate of your starting gravity assumed 3 gallons total volume. I didn't account for the volume of the honey itself, which for 12 lbs was probably another gallon (right?). So, 12 lbs of honey in 4 gallons would be 1.105-ish plus 50 points of cider would bring that to 1.155 not 1.190. You've fermented about 91 points of sugar so far, which gets you about 11.9% ABV. This is based on the typical .035 per pound of honey per gallon of must.

The 64 points you have remaining would bring you to over 20% if it went dry, and I doubt any yeast can do that starting from where you are. You may get a few more points from the RC212 but your mead is still going to finish very sweet.

My advice would be to dilute your batch with another 1-1/2 gallons of apple juice and bring the alcohol down to a reasonable amount and hope it doesn't quit at a terribly sweet level.

 

[mustardgas]

That's great news! The rc212 is still chugging along fairly well. I am hoping it works up to the 16% the data sheet said it would. I gave it some yeast nutrient today just to make sure it had enough of what it needs.

Thanks for the advice. I will report back in and let you know how it worked out.

 

[Maylar]

That's great news! The rc212 is still chugging along fairly well. I am hoping it works up to the 16% the data sheet said it would. I gave it some yeast nutrient today just to make sure it had enough of what it needs.

Thanks for the advice. I will report back in and let you know how it worked out.

Be aware that most yeast nutrients use DAP (diammonium phosphate) which is an inorganic source of nitrogen. Yeasts can't assimilate inorganic nutrients after about 9% alcohol. Whatever nutrient you add after that will be left in the mead, and DAP tastes like crap.

If you're using organic nutrient (Fermaid-O) you can go beyond 9%. If not, don't add any more.

 

[mustardgas]

Man, I had no idea about that. I can probably stop adding nutrient now anyway; the fermentation is steady and pacing well at this point. I am honestly not sure what nutrient I have. The brew store I got it from just had it in a clear bag with no markings. I will buy fermaid-O for next time.

{update} turns out it was Fermaid-O.

 

[Maylar]

Lucky - but yeah, don't add any more.

 

[mustardgas]

Update: Still fermenting, although now slowing (about 14 seconds between bubbles in airlock.) last Gravity reading was at 1.044. It tastes nice. The alcohol is well hidden, and is definitely sweet. Not sicky sweet, but definitely a desert mead. My question this time is threefold. How can I be sure it is done fermenting? How long should I wait to bottle? and finally; will it clear on it's own, or do I need to use a fining for cyser? I have heard that cysers are tougher to clear. I would also like to know if I have to worry about the amount of head-space in my fermenting vessel for aging. Will it turn to vinegar if I leave room?

Thanks for any advise. You guys are great.

 

[SKBugs]

- when your reading is steady over a week or so, you are done.
- after 4 weeks or so in primary, I rack to secondary for another couple of months, then bottle.
- Given time, it will clear, but you can buy clearing agents if you want.
- I think you will be ok if you keep your airlock on, but i am not sure what size vessel you have it in.

You seem to be asking fairly advanced questions for a first time mead maker. I have only a dozen or so meads under my belt, but I would encourage you to relax and enjoy the process. It may take time, but i am sure your mead will turn out fine. And if not, drink it anyway!