HERMS or RIMS???

[ace0005]

I'm sure there's other threads about this, but I'd prefer to have a fresh, updated perspective. I've been all grain brewing for about 5 years now, but I want to step it up from my Igloo cooler mash tun, to a more precise system. I'm in the planning stages of building a horizontal brew stand, but the question is HERMS or RIMS? I have done the research, and understand the difference between the two, but no one seems to be able to put up a solid argument for or against either of these methods. I'm hoping someone can shed some light to help me decide which way to go.

 

[arbadarchi]

I'm wanting to do the same. It seems to me that a herms system would have a more stable temperature, but would take longer to get to a target temperature if step mashing, while a rims system would change temperature faster (speculation) but have less precise temp stability due to the element constantly cycling on and off?

 

[jrcrilly]

I like HERMS. It even works with a cooler mash tun, and you can't scorch the wort. It is what I have been using. On the other hand, the system I am currently putting together will have both modes available. I plan to use the more responsive RIMS for step mashes - but only then.

 

[ace0005]

Interesting. So essentially, you're going with a hybrid system? I'm interested to know more about that. If you have any pics please post them. As far as my brewstand is concerned, I'm going to take a page out of Minecat Brewing's play book (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/brew-setups/mientcat-brewing-47.html). I'm going to use steel shelving for my brew stand.... should save me at least $1,000!

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

I have no trouble keeping my mash's near my set point even if im step mashing with a HERMS in my 20 gallon HLT w/ 50' Stainlessbrewing.com's SS coil.

The Mash comes out of the coil at the temperature of the HLT. My HLT can raise my HLT(14 gallons after mashing in) 10 degree's in under 4 minutes.

 

[iijakii]

I have no trouble keeping my mash's near my set point even if im step mashing with a HERMS in my 20 gallon HLT w/ 50' Stainlessbrewing.com's SS coil.

The Mash comes out of the coil at the temperature of the HLT. My HLT can raise my HLT(14 gallons after mashing in) 10 degree's in under 4 minutes.

That's pretty impressive if so. Ive never seen a HERMS raise that quickly. 4mins is easy to raise the HLT temps, but I never found the mash to react that quickly at all.

 

[branman]

I have a RIMS on auber PIDS and my mash Temps stay stable and precise. It's really a question of what equipment you want to get and the configuration of your panel IMO

 

[ace0005]

bramman, do you ever have the problem of scorching your wort?

 

[jrcrilly]

I'm using the stainlessbrewing.com 50 footer also. I've been getting about two degrees/minute at the HEX output on the evaluation rig and expect to do a little better with the same burner and HLT on the new brewstand because I'll mount the burner higher. Of course, it takes additional time to run the entire wort through the HEX. I expect the directly heated MLT on the new stand to be much quicker because of the reduced water mass to be heated and because there'll be no HEX delay. I expect to still use the HERMS mode most of the time because it is fast enough for most of what I do. My primary reason for the MLT burner is to heat the strike water separately while the HLT is heating up to mash temps.

No photos yet, as it is still a work in progress. I have the new MLT and all the burners, solenoid valves, pumps, and hardware for the stand. I cut the new control panel today and have most of the components mounted. I expect to have it completed and wired this weekend. Then I will be stalled, as the stainless brewstand I ordered in October from brewershardware.com has been predicted for "next week" every week since. I haven't been too upset because I wasn't ready anyway, but next week I will be ready and inconvenienced.

 

[ryanryates]

I've run both rims and herms. Started with a herms and was frustrated with slow rising temperature changes. I have been very pleased with the performance of the rims and have never had any scorching issues. The rims is running on 110v ULWD element.

 

[schematix]

Real men use RIMS.

Both types work but RIMS is going to let you step quicker. Scorching will only happen on a poorly tuned or stuck system. Tune it right and don't let it stick and it won't scorch.

I'd suggest the RIMS, but not the Blichmann version that I have.

 

[ace0005]

Schematix,
R u talking about the tower of power?

 

[schematix]

I'm talking about the RIMS rocket. Their controller (ToP) is the same thing as many others except 3x the price.

 

[atoughram]

I have a RIMS on auber PIDS and my mash Temps stay stable and precise. It's really a question of what equipment you want to get and the configuration of your panel IMO

Same here - 220V ULWD 2KW element in the rims tube

I probably could do step mashes - but I dont...

Scortched one batch of beer when the grain bed compacted stopping the flow. It was my fault for not paying attention though, it could have been prevented. I now throw in a few handfulls of rice hulls in every batch and keep it stirred up.

 

[schematix]

RIMS brewers must pay closer attention to prevent the dreaded stuck mash since it will likely result in scorching. This is not an issue with HERMS, and is probably the one and only benefit HERMS has over RIMS.

Some tips:
1. Pay attention to your grind. Too fine and you'll create too tight of a grain bed.
2. Pay attention to your grist. Add rice hulls to offset any non-husked grain such as rice, corn, oats, wheat or rye.
3. Throttle your pump speed. For most 5-20G system you can recirc ~1gpm and not worry about sticking.
4. Mash in above the gelatinization temp. First step I won't go less than 145F.
5. Allow the mash to sit for about 10 minutes after mashing in to give the grain time to hydrate. This will give you a more fluid mash to recirculate.
6. There are some flow sensing methods that can be effective to cut off the PID in case the flow drops. There are different types of flow switches. You can also use a rotameter with prox switches and a relay to perform the same task.

I've only had 1 issue with a stuck mash so far and it was with a american lager that had 25% rice, no rice hulls, and a mash in at 140. 3 hours and a lb of rice hulls later, i had a full kettle.

 

[jschein]

RIMS Tower of Power gas here. Yes as schematix said make sure you hydrate all of the grain and you should be good to go.

 

[ace0005]

How dip you hydrate the grain?

 

[jschein]

Make sure it is mixed well and let it for 10 minutes before recirculating

 

[ace0005]

Great replies guys, and very helpful! Keep it coming, thanks!

 

[rossi46]

I've had both and really preferred the rims. If you go rims, get one that is tri-clamp so it is easy to clean.

 

[branman]

bramman, do you ever have the problem of scorching your wort?

No, I have 5500ulwd wired as a 110v and brewers hardware RIMS tube (1.5). Haven't scorched one yet...