Help with water profile want to brew Munich Helles with Anchorage water

[swingerwc]

Hello, I need some help modifying my water. Normally I would use RO and build the water profile, but Munich Helles is one that I'd like to brew over and over and would like to make additions to the water. I know that this takes a little analysis but as far as I am able to tell my CA and HCO3 are a little high for the prescribed water profile for pilsner style. I'm missing something.. is my water fine to brew a Helles and rely on the water profile as it is for many batches. I've been reading everything I can get my hands on but this is a complicated subject and Id really like to get brewing this and understand as I go.



My water profile is this (all values are ppm):

pH 7.8

Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 116

Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.19

Cations / Anions, me/L 2.0 / 2.0


Sodium, Na: 4
Potassium, K: < 1
Calcium, Ca: 29
Magnesium, Mg: 4
Total Hardness, CaCO3: 89
Nitrate, NO3-N: 0.1 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S: 14
Chloride, Cl: 2
Carbonate, CO3: < 1.0
Bicarbonate, HCO3: 65
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3: 54
Total Phosphorus, P: < 0.01
Total Iron, Fe: < 0.01
"<" - Not Detected / Below Detection Limit

Brewersfriend calculator shows a Pilsner or Munich Helles style as:

Ca+2: 7
Mg+2: 3
Na+: 2
Cl-: 5
SO4-2:5
HCO: 25

 

[Yooper]

RO water is perfect, if you look at the profile you want to achieve. You could dilute your tap water if you want, but if I wanted to have a profile like that, I'd go with the RO water. (That profile is basically RO water).

 

[swingerwc]

Thanks! I see your point. Lets say I brewed the Helles with my water and no additions besides some acid malt for PH. Would it come out too bitter or soft tasting for the style. I dont think it would "ruin" my first batch of Helles but I'm wondering what it would ultimately do to the finished product?

 

[55x11]

Hello, I need some help modifying my water. Normally I would use RO and build the water profile, but Munich Helles is one that I'd like to brew over and over and would like to make additions to the water. I know that this takes a little analysis but as far as I am able to tell my CA and HCO3 are a little high for the prescribed water profile for pilsner style. I'm missing something.. is my water fine to brew a Helles and rely on the water profile as it is for many batches. I've been reading everything I can get my hands on but this is a complicated subject and Id really like to get brewing this and understand as I go.



My water profile is this (all values are ppm):

pH 7.8

Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 116

Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.19

Cations / Anions, me/L 2.0 / 2.0


Sodium, Na: 4
Potassium, K: < 1
Calcium, Ca: 29
Magnesium, Mg: 4
Total Hardness, CaCO3: 89
Nitrate, NO3-N: 0.1 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S: 14
Chloride, Cl: 2
Carbonate, CO3: < 1.0
Bicarbonate, HCO3: 65
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3: 54
Total Phosphorus, P: < 0.01
Total Iron, Fe: < 0.01
"<" - Not Detected / Below Detection Limit

Brewersfriend calculator shows a Pilsner or Munich Helles style as:

Ca+2: 7
Mg+2: 3
Na+: 2
Cl-: 5
SO4-2:5
HCO: 25

Hmm... that Ca 7.
You need (ideally/usually) around 40-50 or more Ca (for yeast heath and clearing the beer). In fact most people will tell you you MUST have >50ppm of Ca, but some propose that you can survive with just 20-30 or so. See for example:
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Various_water_recipes#very_soft_water

I just brewed a Helles and I used this "target" Helles profile:

Ca: 35
Mg: 5
Na: 0
SO4: 10
Cl: 10
HCO3: 0

But ended up with:

Ca: 35
Mg: 0
Na: 8
SO4: 38
Cl: 36
HCO3: 16

 

[55x11]

Thanks! I see your point. Lets say I brewed the Helles with my water and no additions besides some acid malt for PH. Would it come out too bitter or soft tasting for the style. I dont think it would "ruin" my first batch of Helles but I'm wondering what it would ultimately do to the finished product?

it won't "ruin" anything, but (I suspect) it won't be as crisp tasting or true to the style in terms of accentuating lager yeast and moderate noble hops.

Keep in mind the differences we are talking could be fairly subtle. Some people can notice them, some won't. But for world-class beers:

for pale beers: pale ales, pilsners, lagers, including Helles, you want very low (ideally negative) residual alkalinity. Maybe -50 to 0 range.

Your water, untreated, has residual alkalinity of about 30. The one I posted above has RA of about -30, I think.

this is why even with a fairly mellow, soft water profile like yours, it's still a bit too "moderate" (= high for this style) in bicarbonates to easily reach pilsner or helles water profile - even though for most other styles you may want to actually boost RA and bicarbonates.

I have accepted that the only way to get close to pilsners, helles and other light lagers/ales is to start with RO water for those styles, and try to add as little as possible to get enough Ca.

 

[JBOGAN]

This might help.

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Various_water_recipes

 

[helibrewer]

Here's my German Pils profile. RA is -19