Help with Single-Tier Single-Pump Stand

[user 204491]

So after spending some time brewing I have come to two realizations:

1) Lifting heavy things sucks!
2) Lifting heavy things which are also hot things sucks even more!!

So to eliminate those problems I have decided that I would like to build a single-tier brew stand and use pumps to move things around. When I was first buying gear I had the idea that at some point I would like to move to a 3-tier gravity thread system, so I purchased this King Kooker dual-burner with that in mind.

I've now ditched that plan and am hoping to turn this into a single-tier system, and luckily it appears there is some prior art here, as you'll see from this photo I found in the Amazon reviews:

So I'm more or less looking to duplicate that sort of setup, with a few changes. First it would probably help if I layout my other equipment choices:

HLT - Chapman Heavy Kettler 10 Gal Stainless Kettle
MT - Chapman Thermobarrel 10 Gal Stainless Mash Tun
BK - Bayou Classic 10 Gal Stainless Kettle

All 3 of those will be fitted with 1/2" ball valves, thermometers, etc.

Design considerations for my build:

1) I'd like to continue to batch sparge, and not move to fly sparging. At least not yet anyway.

2) I'd like to continue to use my copper immersion chiller, only updating it with a whirlpool/recirculation arm during this build

3) I'd like to accomplish all of this by only adding a single pump to my stand

Lastly on to my questions

1) Is there something obviously flawed with my initial build thoughts here I should address before starting this?

2) Can someone recommend to me the best pump for this sort of setup? I'm looking for something as simple as "flip the switch and it starts pumping," hopefully not something that I have to fiddle with or prime to get it to kick in. That is to say I'd like it to just work every time.

3) What sort of tubing is best for this scenario? I see both silicone and reinforced vinyl, but I'm not sure what is best.

4) On the tubing, is it generally recommended to replace it at the same intervals that you would replace the other tubing in home brew setups (like for siphons, etc.). I generally replace that sort of stuff every few months just to be safe.

5) What sort of connects/disconnects should I be looking to put on my 1/2" ball valves? I don't really want to have to fiddle around screwing things in during the brew day, but am a bit confused about quick release, tri-clover, etc.

6) When mounting the pump, what considerations do I need to keep in mind? Does it need some sort of cover to protect it from splashes, etc.? Electricity + liquid seems bad, so I want to protect both myself and the pump.

7) What about cleaning on these types of setups? Is it as simple as mixing up some PBW in the HLT, scrubbing that a bit, pumping to the MT, scrubbing that a bit, pumping to the BK, scrubbing, and then pumping down the drain? Any special considerations for cleaning the pump itself?

8) Hop pellet gunk + pumps = bad news right, so what sort of precautions do you take there? For example I'd like to do hop stands, so does that mean always using hop bags or something similar to make sure all that gunk is contained prior to engaging the pump?

9) Batch sparging on this setup seems pretty straightforward, and I'm guessing I probably don't even need the pump for the vorlauf/recirculation step, no?

I think that's it, but I'm guessing I'll have more questions depending on what sort of answers I get to those.

Thanks for reading and any responses are welcome!

 

[RileyJA]

Following. I have my 15 gallon SS BK and a 10 gallon Rubbermaid MT. I just
keep lurking hoping I'll figure out how I want to proceed. I'm just so indecisive.

 

[ImNoExpert]

Lots of questions. I'll do my best to speak to what I've experienced:

2. I recommend the chugger center inlet pump. The stainless steel head makes it easier to add fittings without breakage. The center inlet supposedly primes easier. These two things make it cost more than a plastic head inline pump, but I've found them to be of benefit to me.

3. Use silicone. Good up to 500F and 100% food grade.

4. No need to replace it unless it's broken or worn.

5. I like camlocks for connections. They are very durable (stainless steel), have few moving parts (less to screw up), and are less expensive than other stainless disconnects. It's truly a buy it once and done situation.

6. Pump should be mounted low enough to prime. A cover of some sort would be a very good idea. Only plug it into a GFCI protected outlet. Itf you don't have one where you brew, you can get an adapter.

7. I run warm or hot oxyclean through my HLT, pump, and chiller for 15 to 20 minutes. The BK and MLT get rinsed and wiped out.

8. I'm still working on this part of my set up and haven't found anything that I'm really happy with. I've been using bags for my hops.

9. I use my pump to vorlauf.

 

[ColoHox]

+1 to everything ImNoExpert said.

Get everything from @Bobby_M at Brewhardware

 

[user 204491]

Hey, thanks so much for your reply! I've been doing a bit of research on my own as well, so I'm starting to put all the pieces together in my head and getting a list together for when I'm ready to buy stuff.

I hope you don't mind a few follow-ups? In-line with your response...

Lots of questions. I'll do my best to speak to what I've experienced:

2. I recommend the chugger center inlet pump. The stainless steel head makes it easier to add fittings without breakage. The center inlet supposedly primes easier. These two things make it cost more than a plastic head inline pump, but I've found them to be of benefit to me.

- That's actually one of two I had it narrowed down to. It was basically the center inlet chugger or the regular one. For the center inlet, I would need an adapter to go from 3/4" to 1/2" to match up to my tubing, right? Something like this?

Also, it looks like you should put a ball valve on either side of the pump to help control the flow. Is that correct?


5. I like camlocks for connections. They are very durable (stainless steel), have few moving parts (less to screw up), and are less expensive than other stainless disconnects. It's truly a buy it once and done situation.

- I'm still a little confused on the camlocks. What are the different types (A,B,C, etc), and which one should I use for this type of setup. As it stands now I was thinking about going with these types of connectors. What do you think about those?

6. Pump should be mounted low enough to prime. A cover of some sort would be a very good idea. Only plug it into a GFCI protected outlet. Itf you don't have one where you brew, you can get an adapter.

- Yeah I'm starting to realize that you're going to have to prime pretty much any brewing pump you get that works at boiling temps, so I guess it's not that big of a deal and should be pretty easy once I get the hang of it. Luckily I do have a GFCI protected outlet outside right were I brew.

7. I run warm or hot oxyclean through my HLT, pump, and chiller for 15 to 20 minutes. The BK and MLT get rinsed and wiped out.

- Cool, sounds like it might even be easier to clean than my current setup!

8. I'm still working on this part of my set up and haven't found anything that I'm really happy with. I've been using bags for my hops.

- Yeah, I'm thinking I'll just use those little zippered hop bags, one per addition to keep things simple.

9. I use my pump to vorlauf.

- Could you elaborate on that for a little bit? Do you just run the hose up to a recirculation port on your MLT? Is it connected to anything up there? When I use my pitcher to volauf I like that I can kind of pour it all over the top of the mash bed, hoping to keep things evenly distributed. I'm worried that if I attach it to my recirculation port it might just run down the one side of the kettle.

 

[ImNoExpert]

Hey, thanks so much for your reply! I've been doing a bit of research on my own as well, so I'm starting to put all the pieces together in my head and getting a list together for when I'm ready to buy stuff.

I hope you don't mind a few follow-ups? In-line with your response...

- That's actually one of two I had it narrowed down to. It was basically the center inlet chugger or the regular one. For the center inlet, I would need an adapter to go from 3/4" to 1/2" to match up to my tubing, right? Something like this?

Also, it looks like you should put a ball valve on either side of the pump to help control the flow. Is that correct?

Yes, you would need the adapter. The ball valve should go in the outlet only (the part that points up on center inlet chuggers). You never want to restrict liquid coming from the inlet as it greatly increases the chances of running it dry, decreasing the pump's life and possibly ruining it. I set up my pump similar to this.


- I'm still a little confused on the camlocks. What are the different types (A,B,C, etc), and which one should I use for this type of setup. As it stands now I was thinking about going with these types of connectors. What do you think about those?

Those connectors work well from what I've read. My main reasons for not going with those were: 1. Price; 2. More moving pieces/complexity thus greater chance for failure.


- Yeah I'm starting to realize that you're going to have to prime pretty much any brewing pump you get that works at boiling temps, so I guess it's not that big of a deal and should be pretty easy once I get the hang of it. Luckily I do have a GFCI protected outlet outside right were I brew.

Yeah, they are easier to prime than you think. I rarely have issues.


- Cool, sounds like it might even be easier to clean than my current setup!

It is pretty easy. I only use the HLT because I collect the hot water discarded from the chiller and use that to make up the oxyclean mixture.


- Yeah, I'm thinking I'll just use those little zippered hop bags, one per addition to keep things simple.

:rockin:

9. I use my pump to vorlauf.

- Could you elaborate on that for a little bit? Do you just run the hose up to a recirculation port on your MLT? Is it connected to anything up there? When I use my pitcher to volauf I like that I can kind of pour it all over the top of the mash bed, hoping to keep things evenly distributed. I'm worried that if I attach it to my recirculation port it might just run down the one side of the kettle.

I do have a recirc port on my MLT. The port connects to a length of tubing in the MLT that rests on top of the grain bed. I used the pitcher method for years and it worked great. My choice to change was based on my desire to give up the pitcher pour. Just hook up the pump and go. But the pitcher pour is good too. I usually get around 80% mash efficiency. I based my vorlauf/sparge based on this (mine's not electric and a 70qt cooler, but same concepts).

 

[user 204491]

@ImNoExpert - Just wanted to say thanks so much for all your help! You have no idea how helpful you've been. I think I will go ahead and incorporate the vorlauf through the recirculation port like the example you provided. Shouldn't add too much additional cost, and is just one less thing I'd have to manually do on brew day.

Right now I'm working on a diagram showing how everything will go together as well as a parts list so I can get everything straight. When I'm done I'll post back here, and hopefully people can point out if I've missed anything or got anything wrong.

Hopefully the diagram/list will be helpful to other people trying to set something like this up.

 

[ImNoExpert]

No problem! That's what HBT is all about! Can't wait to see it in action!

 

[user 204491]

Alright, so I had some time on the commute home this evening to finish my "schematic." I put it in quotes as I'm really just trying to show how everything will connect together to make sure I've got the connections right and order the right parts.

Please keep in mind from my first post that I already own some of this stuff, so I'm re-purposing what I can. I also didn't add in the 2-burner rig or the rolling platform I'm going to put it on because, well, that just wasn't necessary. So here's what I cam up with:

Also, I couldn't find an easy way to paste in my parts list, especially including the links, so I'm just going to link to my parts list in Google docs, and hope people don't mind clicking through (the doc is viewable to anyone with the link).

Parts list is here.

Again, I appreciate everyone's help and input on this project. Please let me know what you think!

 

[user 204491]

Ooops! I already noticed one mistake myself...

The 5/8" high flow barb I was going to use for my recirculation setup in the MLT had a male connector while I needed a female connector to attach to the street 90. I went looking for the right part, when I came across a high flow 90 barb which seems to combine the two pieces into a single one, saves about a $1.50 on the project and means I don't need a hose clamp.

Updated pic is below, and the parts list has been updated as well.

 

[ImNoExpert]

It looks pretty good to me. I'm assuming these pots have welded fittings already? I just have a couple of very minor, hardly worth mentioning suggestions:

1. I used hose clamps on all of my silicone connections. The silicone does fit pretty tight on the barbs, but I didn't want any chance of something coming off inadvertently. Not only would it risk my beer but it could be dangerous to have a few gallons or quarts of boiling liquid shooting out of something.

I'd avoid regular hose clamps because they can cut into the silicone and wear out the tubing faster. I got some of these and they're ok, but I did an oxyclean soak on my tubing once and the screw part corroded. I did the same soak with these and had no corrosion so I switched out all my clamps to the latter.

2. I do like to have a 90 degree elbow on one end of my hoses. I bought this kit. At first I didn't think I would use the elbows but now I'm glad I did. That way there is no opportunity for the hose to kink or collapse coming from the pot. It just rests and runs straight down.

Like I said, these two things are hardly worth mentioning, and your mileage may vary. But looking at your planned set up (3-piece valves, nice pots), you look like you are the kind of person to "buy it once and done".

 

[Bobby_M]

I appreciate all the recommendations for my shop guys. If you haven't seen it yet, this video may help explain the pump connection kit a little better if there is still confusion.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQhx0BCUfiU[/ame]

 

[user 204491]

@ImNoExpert - Thanks again for all your responses! You've definitely stopped me from making some mistakes. I just put a couple of more comments below.

It looks pretty good to me. I'm assuming these pots have welded fittings already? I just have a couple of very minor, hardly worth mentioning suggestions:

-No, they do not have welded fittings. They all have the holes pre-drilled, and I'll be using weldless bulkheads, but I only need to purchase 1 new one (for the re-circulation port) as I already have one in my current kettle (which will become my HLT), and the new MLT and BK both come with them

1. I used hose clamps on all of my silicone connections. The silicone does fit pretty tight on the barbs, but I didn't want any chance of something coming off inadvertently. Not only would it risk my beer but it could be dangerous to have a few gallons or quarts of boiling liquid shooting out of something.

-You know, those are very valid points. I spend so much time making my beer that it'd be pretty silly to have a batch go to waste because I didn't use a $1.50 hose clamp. Plus, I'd feel pretty lousy if someone got burnt.

I'd avoid regular hose clamps because they can cut into the silicone and wear out the tubing faster. I got some of these and they're ok, but I did an oxyclean soak on my tubing once and the screw part corroded. I did the same soak with these and had no corrosion so I switched out all my clamps to the latter.

-Thanks for that tip! When briefly looking at hose clamps I'd heard that about regular clamps so was considering the 2nd ones you pointed out. I'll just skip those and go with the 3rd option.

2. I do like to have a 90 degree elbow on one end of my hoses. I bought this kit. At first I didn't think I would use the elbows but now I'm glad I did. That way there is no opportunity for the hose to kink or collapse coming from the pot. It just rests and runs straight down.

-Again, sounds like one of those things you'd never think about until you need them, and if you just buy them from the start, you'll never have to think about them at all, so I will add one to each of my hoses.

Like I said, these two things are hardly worth mentioning, and your mileage may vary. But looking at your planned set up (3-piece valves, nice pots), you look like you are the kind of person to "buy it once and done".

-Glad you did mention them! Yeah, I'm hoping this will be my brew rig for a long time to come, so I'd like to just get it "right" from the beginning and then refine my process (and hopefully beer!) with it as I go!

Last questions for you (hopefully)!

1 - How long did you make the silicone tube in your MLT? From the link you sent it looks like they made theirs 5 feet long. Is that really necessary? It looks like theirs can go all the way to the bottom of the kettle and curl around some.

2 - What's a good length for your 2 pump hoses? Obviously they need to be long enough to reach your longest run, but how much extra slack should there be? Is it better to have them more on the tight side or more on the loose side?

I'll update my diagram and parts list again and post them back here later today.

 

[ImNoExpert]

1. Mine is about three feet right now. But I use a 70qt cooler. And I'm thinking about replacing it with a longer one. The one on the site was long because he's using a 20 gallon pot. The goal is to have it long enough to circle back on itself so it rests on top of the grain bed. Too short and it sticks down into the bed (might be my problem). It would depend on your pot dimensions.

2. Mine are four feet long. But that's because it's custom to my stand/pots. A little slack is good. Too much slack can sometimes make them sag and kink under their own weight and can be a waste of wort if their considered dead space. Though if they are too long for the initial brews, you can easily cut them down. Not so if they're too short.

 

[user 204491]

@ImNoExpert - Thanks again for all your help! You've definitely saved me from having to re-buy things down the line. Ok, so based on your latest comments, here is what I've got now, and the parts list has been updated as well.

 

[helterscelter]

@ImNoExpert - Thanks again for all your help! You've definitely saved me from having to re-buy things down the line. Ok, so based on your latest comments, here is what I've got now, and the parts list has been updated as well.

couple questions:

1) rather than building your own bulkhead connectors with SS unions and nipples, why not pick up pre-made buildheads (https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/truebulkheadfem.htm) or (http://www.morebeer.com/products/stainless-weldless-ball-valve.html -- I really like the bulkheads that come with that, plus you get the valve)

fewer places for leaks, less parts to clean, etc..

2) for the inlet on our pump, why not get a 3/4" camlock, rather than the reducer? you'll also need to get a 3/4" camlock for the hose side. how often do you see your self changing which hose is hooked to the pump? (I find I never change the pump connection, but rather change the other end of the hose from vessel to vessel)

3) why do you need a ballvalve on your recirc port?

 

[user 204491]

@helterscelter - Thanks for your response! I've pasted your questions below with my responses in bold to make it easier to read.

Also, sorry if this wasn't totally clear from the thread, but this isn't a complete new build from scratch. Rather I am trying to re-use as much of what I've already got and am incorporating my new items from the Chapman Kickstarter into my rig. With both those in mind a single-tier, single-pump system seemed appropriate for my needs.

1) rather than building your own bulkhead connectors with SS unions and nipples, why not pick up pre-made buildheads (https://www.brewhardware.com/product...ulkheadfem.htm) or (http://www.morebeer.com/products/sta...all-valve.html -- I really like the bulkheads that come with that, plus you get the valve)

fewer places for leaks, less parts to clean, etc.

Actually, I'm not building my own. I only need one weldless bulkead, and for that I am using this one from Bargain Fittings. I've already got that model on my existing kettle, as well as several other things I've added it to (fermenters, bottling bucket, etc.), and I'm quite happy with it. Never had a single leak yet.

The one I'm buying will be for my recirc port, as Chapman supplies the other 2 bulkheads for their products I'm using.

I was just using the nipple, etc. in the diagram to show how things would be hooked up. I suppose I could change it to a generic "weldless bulkhead" if that'd make it more clear.

Lastly, the morebeer item seems terribly expensive for what you get? Plus it comes with a 2-piece ball valve, when I'm wanting to primarily use 3-piece valves for this project. The Brew Hardware model seems to be more reasonably priced, but it does not seem to come with a valve?

2) for the inlet on our pump, why not get a 3/4" camlock, rather than the reducer? you'll also need to get a 3/4" camlock for the hose side. how often do you see your self changing which hose is hooked to the pump? (I find I never change the pump connection, but rather change the other end of the hose from vessel to vessel)

Hey, that's a good question. To be honest, until you mentioned it I didn't know 3/4" camlocks were a thing! Looking around the Internet they don't appear to be terribly common though? Brew Hardware was the only "reliable" place I could find when I searched for "3/4" stainless steel camlock" Even there they call out this is usually a low stock item. The other places that popped up were more like pipe fitting supply stores with lists of part numbers, and I've not had a lot of good luck trying to buy brew gear from places like that.

Thinking about it now, I think I'll stick with the standard 1/2" size and use the reducer. That would keep everything consistent in the rig, and should anything ever break during brew day I could swap out a part from another part of the system to keep me running, or worst case run over to the LHBS and pay a slightly inflated price for a replacement part. If I went with the non-standard part and one of them broke, I'd be SOL until I could place an order with Brew Hardware and get it delivered, pretty much ruining my brew day.

3) why do you need a ballvalve on your recirc port?

Another good question! I was mainly just following the build instructions here, which called for a ball valve. I originally thought I could just eliminate that piece and attach an A-style camlock to the external bulkhead piece, saving $11 or so, but was thinking then there'd be a hole at the top of the MLT for steam/heat to escape from which could impact the mash temp over the course of an hour. Do you not use one on yours?

 

[helterscelter]

3) why do you need a ballvalve on your recirc port?

Another good question! I was mainly just following the build instructions here, which called for a ball valve. I originally thought I could just eliminate that piece and attach an A-style camlock to the external bulkhead piece, saving $11 or so, but was thinking then there'd be a hole at the top of the MLT for steam/heat to escape from which could impact the mash temp over the course of an hour. Do you not use one on yours?

I don't currently have a recirculation port in my keggle (in the works tho) for now I lay my return hose through the opening of the keggle into an ss colander - placing a lid on top of it all to help with the heat retention.

the whole point of a recirculation port is to do recirculation during the mash. No heat will escape if you are pumping wort through it. This also assumes you are doing herms or rims to maintain and/or step your temps, as obviously you will lose heat from the pump and hose.

If you plan to just use the recirculation port as an easy way to vorlauf, then you could use a cam lock dust cap to seal the port during the mash. Much easier to clean than a ball valve

 

[user 204491]

If you plan to just use the recirculation port as an easy way to vorlauf, then you could use a cam lock dust cap to seal the port during the mash. Much easier to clean than a ball valve

Hey, ya know, that's exactly what I was planning to do. It's there, so I figured I might as well use it, and pumping is easier than pouring!

You've got a great point. I think I will remove the ball valve from that configuration, replace the F camlock with an A, and add a dust cover. Saves me $5, and like you say, easier to clean.

Come to think of it, why would a ball valve be necessary there for a HERMS/RIMS. I'm not very familiar with those, but if you're trying to restrict the flow, wouldn't it be easier to do that with the valve at the end of the pump, as opposed to the one going into your MLT?

 

[helterscelter]

Hey, ya know, that's exactly what I was planning to do. It's there, so I figured I might as well use it, and pumping is easier than pouring!

You've got a great point. I think I will remove the ball valve from that configuration, replace the F camlock with an A, and add a dust cover. Saves me $5, and like you say, easier to clean.

Come to think of it, why would a ball valve be necessary there for a HERMS/RIMS. I'm not very familiar with those, but if you're trying to restrict the flow, wouldn't it be easier to do that with the valve at the end of the pump, as opposed to the one going into your MLT?

using a pump to vorlauf is much easier than pouring.

recirculation with direct heat on your tun (or indirect heat via a herms/rims setup) is much easier than worrying about losing too much temp during the mash and/or step mashing by adding boiling hot water from the hlt.. (which if you want to, you can also do with your pump, so it's a win-win)

if you think about it, a ball valve on the inlet/recirculation port is exactly the same thing as a ball valve on the outlet of your pump. the only difference is where pressure builds up. (the pump head or the hose) -- it is much more reliable to control it at the pump. I'm sure someone could come up with a reason to put a ball valve on the inlet of a recirculation port -- maybe even a really good reason -- but I can't imagine one.

 

[user 204491]

@helterscelter, @ImNoExpert, just wanted to say thanks again to both of you for all your help and suggestions.

Here is what I think I've finalized on. The updated diagram is below, and the parts list has been updated as well.

So unless someone else comes along with some piece of fabulous advice, I think this is what I'll be sticking with.

The Chapman equipment won't be here until the end of July, so the project is pretty much on hold until then. I want to physically get my hands on the new gear to take a look and make sure I've not missed anything prior to ordering the equipment.

If nothing changes in the setup, I'll post back here with some build pics and the results once I get everything setup!

 

[helterscelter]

cool.. can't wait to see your build

 

[user 204491]

Well, it took longer than originally planned, but at long last here she is!

As usual, life got in the way so had to put stuff off for a bit, and then I ran into a string of problems with some of my new equipment, so I had to wait on multiple replacements to show up.

Made a few changes from the original plans, most notably scrapping the plan to build a platform out of wood and instead built a 6' long cart using the Regency wire shelving from WebRestaurantStore.com, which was really pretty simple using their 18" utility cart handles and casters. I also ditched the Champan boil kettle (wasn't very satisfied with the quality) and went with the Blichman G2.

Today is my second brew day on it, and so far I am really pleased. I think the heaviest thing I lifted last time was my bucket of grain, so that was a big help. Still getting the hang of it, but am taking notes and adjusting as I go. The first go around I overshot my mash temp by several degrees, but a little cold water and stirring got me where I needed to be. I also clogged up the dip tube on the Blichman with a hop bag during the recirculation/whirlpool, so after reading up a bit for today's brew day I'm just skipping the hop bags and tossing the pellet hops straight in.

As you can see, I made several "customizations" to my rig, incorporating the turbo module from an old Compaq 286 PC I had laying around and some of the hydraulics from my neighbor's Impala:

Other than the couple of modifications I mentioned, the last parts list/diagram I posted is more or less accurate, and I'm happy to answer any questions if I can help someone get their setup going.

 

[Carlscan26]

How's the chapman mash tun holding up?