Help with recipe

[eon]

Hello I am trying to learn how to create my own recipes. IPA is my favorite style of beer so I'm giving that a shot. I'm trying to do a cross between a three floyds Dreadnaught IPA and dogfish head 90 minute IPA. Here is my recipe:


4.3 lbs. Pilsner Malt
4.3 lbs. Amber Malt
4.2 lbs. American 2-row Pale Malt
4.3 lbs. Melanoidin Malt


60 minutes 1.0 oz. Warrior
60 minutes 1.0 oz. Simcoe
45 minutes 1.0 oz. Centennial
30 minutes 1.0 oz. Centennial
15 minutes 1.0 oz. Cascade

Dry hop 1.5 ounces Cascade

Wyeast Whitbread Ale (1099)

Mash @ 159 for 60 minutes
Boil for 90 minutes


1.091 Original Gravity

1.027 Final Gravity

38.0 HBU
88.8 IBU

8.5% ABV

Here are my questions:

1.) When making an original recipe how do you know how much malt to use for a 5 gallon batch?

2.) Am I using too much malt in this recipe?

3.) what are AAU and how much does that translate into ounces? (for this recipe I assumed 8 AAU is equal to 1.0 ounce)

4.) When making an original recipe how do you know how much hops to use?

5.) Am I using too much hops in this recipe?

6.) I want to dry hop 1.5 ounces of Cascade. How do i figure out how long to dry hop?

I appreciate any help. I hope this is not an obnoxious post! I'm a beginner! Thanks!

 

[Dos_Locos_Brewery]

Use a recipe calculator! That will answer questions 1 - 5, and guide you to make adjustments. For dry-hopping, people usually just give it a certain period of time, depending on their experience. I like ~ 2 weeks.

 

[eon]

Thanks! can you send me a link for a recipe calculator? I would greatly appreciate it!

 

[Dos_Locos_Brewery]

PS Not obnoxious questions. This should hit pretty close to your target OG, but that is a lot of hops for the typical %a.a. for Warrior, Centennial, Simcoe. AAU is %a.a. x # of ounces. E.g., 3 oz. of Nugget @ 10% a.a. would give you 30 AAU.

 

[Dos_Locos_Brewery]

Thanks! can you send me a link for a recipe calculator? I would greatly appreciate it!

You should read some software reviews on this forum - there are some good choices. If you're into stone-age web-based freeware, there's always http://hbd.org/recipator/

P.S. I like stone-age web-based freeware, but it has limitations...

 

[eon]

@ Dos Locos Brewery, I dont know what a target OG is! I just typed that recipe into this program and that is the OG info it gave me.

Here is the program: http://beercalculus.hopville.com/recipe

Thanks for your help!

 

[kunstler]

Go find this book now:

Designing Great Beers by Ray Daniels

I bought it not too long ago and it really gives some good info on how to figure out how many pounds and how many this based off of your equipment and process. and then in the 2nd half gives sytlistic guidlines and how to approach them based off of commercial as well as homebrew recipies that were deemed good by competition.

 

[eon]

Thanks Kunstler! I'm checking to see if my library has it right now!

 

[Yooper]

I assume you've found some assistance by now, but I wanted to tell you that 4 pounds of amber malt, and 4 pounds of melanoidin malt is WAY too much.

For my DFH clone, I use 6 OUNCES of amber malt. It's very strong flavored. I've never used melanoidin malt but I would be very cautious with more than 10-15% of the grain bill. It'll be very malty. Also, melanoidin malt has very little diastatic power, as does amber malt. So, you need more base malt and less of those two malts.

The hopping isn't bad, but I'd move the simcoe, centennial, and cascade additions to 20 minutes or less. You want hop flavor and aroma, but your recipe is almost all bittering additions.

The mash temp of 159 is way too high. With the heavy malt bill, and the high mash temp, you'd be drinking syrup at the end. I'd lose the melanoiden malt completely, use no more than 1 pounds of amber malt, use corn sugar to boost the fermentables, and mash at no higher than 152.

 

[eon]

@ Yooperbrew. Hey thanks for the info! Basically I looked at these two clone recipes and thats where I came up with mine. I was trying to find a way to include all the malts included in both recipes into mine. have a look.

Here is the Dreadnaught clone recipe:

Three Floyds Dreadnaught IPA
==========================
16.25 lbs 2-row Pale Malt
1.25 lbs Melanoidin Malt

8 AAU Warrior 60 min
8 AAU Simcoe 60 min
8 AAU Centennial 45 min
8 AAU Centennial 30 min
8 AAU Cascade 15 min

1.5 oz Cascade dry hop

Wyeast 1968 London ESB or
White Labs WLP002 English Ale

Mash @ 159 for 60 min
Boil for 90 min

Extract: Replace all but 1.33 lbs of the Pale malt with 8 lbs of DME
Steep grains for 45 min @ 159

and here is the Dogfish Head 90 minute IPA clone:

Dogfish Head - 90 Minute IPA
==========================
16.5 lbs Pilsner Malt
1.66 lbs Amber Malt

16 AAU Amarillo 90-0 minutes
8 AAU Simcoe 90-0 minutes
8 AAU Warrior 90-0 mintues

1 oz Amarillo dry hop
0.5 oz Simcoe dry hop
0.5 Warrior dry hop

Wyeast 1099 Whitbread Ale

Mash @ 149 with a rest @ 122
105 minute boil
Starting at 90 minutes, slowly and evenly add hops throught out the boil
(approx 0.25 oz every 7.5 minutes)

Extract: Replace all but 1.75 lbs of the Pilsner with 8 lbs DME. Steep all crushed grains
for 45 minutes. Boil same as all grain.

and finally, here is my recipe:

endofnight IPA
--------------------------
--------------------------

4.3 lbs. Pilsner Malt
4.3 lbs. Amber Malt
4.2 lbs. American 2-row Pale Malt
4.3 lbs. Melanoidin Malt


60 minutes 1.0 oz. Warrior
60 minutes 1.0 oz. Simcoe
45 minutes 1.0 oz. Centennial
30 minutes 1.0 oz. Centennial
15 minutes 1.0 oz. Cascade

Dry hop 1.5 ounces Cascade

Wyeast Whitbread Ale (1099)

Mash @ 159 for 60 minutes
Boil for 90 minutes


1.091 Original Gravity

1.027 Final Gravity

38.0 HBU
88.8 IBU

8.5% ABV

so as you can see, I was trying to include all four malts from the combined clones into my recipe. also, I basically just copied the hop part of the Dreadnaught clone and applied to my recipe.

Is this the malt a bad idea even If I lower the quantities of each malt? Also, I would be making a 5 gallon batch. these two clones seem like more than that. Thanks!

 

[Yooper]

Ah, I see. Well, you could definitely keep in the melanoidin malt and the amber malt, but why triple the amounts? Those malts aren't in the category of "if a little is good, more is better".

Another point- I've never had the first beer, so I'm not sure what it is you like about it. I've had DFH 90, though. Sometimes combining the things you like (malty flavor, crisp bitterness, lots of hops) from different recipes makes a great beer. Sometimes, though, you'll just get a mess.

Let me give you an example. I love spaghetti. I also love chowder. They wouldn't be great in the same pot, however.

A little amber malt and a little melanoidin malt is fine. Those hops are pretty good. Those are very high ABV, "big" beers, so they are for a 5 gallon batch. So, if you want to combine the "best of"s, you could do something like this:

15 pounds base malt (either pilsner malt or US 2-row, or a combo)
1.5 pounds amber malt
1 pound melanoidin malt

60 minutes .1.0 oz. Warrior
20 minutes 1.0 oz. Simcoe
15 minutes 1.0 oz. Centennial
10 minutes 1.0 oz. Centennial
0 minutes 1.0 oz. Cascade

One thing Dogfish Head does is "continuous" hopping. That means they don't actually add the hops at the scheduled time- they have a machine that continously adds the hops over the course of the boil. (See my recipe for the 60 minute clone and the notes on hopping).

The recipe I just posted is still high in IBUs (about 85) with an OG of 1.092 or so, but will be very drinkable. It'll be malty but not sweet, and hoppy. I'd mash at 150, to have it attenuate well. If you mash too high, you'll have a cloyingly sweet beer.

 

[eon]

Thanks Yooperbrew! You should definitely try Dreadnaught if you ever get the chance. It is absolutely delicious.

You can check it out here:

http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/three-floyds-dreadnaught-imperial-ipa/8933/

If I can bother you for one more thing...Can you convert this recipe into an extract only version? would that even be possible? is there a way to do this without going all-grain?

I've decided to go with this:

7.5 lbs. American 2-row Pale Malt
7.5 lbs. Pilsner Malt
1.5 lbs. Amber Malt
1.0 lbs. Melanoidin Malt

60 minutes .1.0 oz. Warrior
20 minutes 1.0 oz. Simcoe
15 minutes 1.0 oz. Centennial
10 minutes 1.0 oz. Centennial
0 minutes 1.0 oz. Cascade

Dry hop 1.5 ounces Cascade

Wyeast Whitbread Ale (1099)

Mash @ 150 for 60 minutes
Boil for 90 minutes


1.092 Original Gravity

1.027 Final Gravity

And lastly, does that final gravity number look ok? I know nothing about this stuff. I am super new to homebrewing. Thanks again for all your help! I greatly appreciate it!

 

[Yooper]

What size boil are you going to do? How much wort can you boil in the pot? That will determine the changes in hopping.

I wouldn't do this as all-extract. Melanoidin and amber malt don't come in extract, as far as I know. All of those grains must be mashed, so you'd have to do a partial mash. It'd be pretty easy, though. I'd also use corn sugar in place of some of the malt extract, because sometimes extract beers don't attenuate as well as all grain batches mashed at a low-ish temperature.

 

[z987k]

yeah you really can't do this extract. Partial mash with the melanoidin and amber with some 2-row and pils for diastic power.

I'm seeing about 65ibu's assuming average AA for those varieties. Honestly I think that is significantly low for a IIPA, but still within style. If you want to get closer to DFH90 or dreadnaught, you'll need more along the lines of 90ibu I believe.

Maybe 1.5oz Warrior and 1.5oz of both Centennial additions at the same times.

 

[eon]

well, I would be doing a 5 gallon batch. To be honest with you I have never brewed beer before in my life so I'm not sure what you mean by boil size. I'm probably going to be buying this in a few days:

http://www.williamsbrewing.com/COMPLETE_BREWERY_WITHOUT_A_KIT_P2355C257.cfm

I believe the brew kettle is 32 quarts.

Do this kit look suitable for a beginner? Could you recommend something better?

It doesn't have to be all-extract. Like I said before, I've never brewed before but I have the "how to brew" book by john palmer so I think I can stumble my way through a partial mash.

I just realized something....Does this mean I need a mash-tun in order to do partial mash?

Thanks again!

 

[z987k]

Yes you need a mash tun to partial mash. You can get away with a smaller one, but if your spending the money... why?

8 gallon pot should suffice until you want to do high gravity all grain beers.

 

[Walker]

Holy cow. that original recipe was definitely way too much melanoidin malt. That stuff lends a VERY big sweet and malty flavor. I only put a half pound of it in my Scottish ale. I'd be afraid of putting a pound (let alone THREE pounds) in anything of medium strength.

You have a huge beer here, so 1 lb might be OK, but if this thing comes out at the end of the month tasting way too sweet, the Melanoidin is where I would make the first adjustment, either reducing it or eliminating it.

 

[Walker]

To be honest with you I have never brewed beer before in my life so I'm not sure what you mean by boil size.

I missed this comment before....

As a friendly suggestion, I personally would not suggest jumping into home brewing and recipe creation at the exact same time. If you produce a beer that you don't enjoy, it will be hard for you, as a beginner, to know if it was your process or your recipe that lead to the end result.

OIbviously, you are free to do what you want, but I would recommend buying a kit or using a recipe that others have done and given a thumbs up to for your maiden voyage into brewing. Focus on the brewing process and use a trusted recipe.

my $0.02