help with liquid volumes Im always off...

[Eddiebosox]

I've been all grain for almost two years, and I almost NEVER get my volumes right. I use beersmith and have a simple 10 gallon Rubbermaid mashtun and a 10 gallon SS kettle over a bayou cooker with a 10 psi hose.

I NEVER get my final volumes correct. Ive been fiddling with the software for ages, and I always end up with almost a gallon more liquid then I need. I brewed a winter ale this weekend. It was supposed to come out at 1.085 for 5 gallons instead it came out at 6.5 gallons at 1.062. It'll still be a good beer, but c'mon! I wanted a high alcohol winter ale! I even added an extra pound of marris otter just to compensate for my crappy efficiency (which is also a factor, since I use the crush that Austin homebrew does for you).

http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?products_id=13190

I've tried fiddling with my equipment settings, and even timed my boiloff rates, but to be honest beersmith is so complicated, every time I alter one amount, it changes 3 others. At this point I'm thinking if just cutting whatever my sparge amount is by a half.

Are beersmiths default 10 gallon cooler #'s accurate? What does everyone have theirs set to with a similar setup?

 

[Bobby_M]

Batch sparge or fly?

 

[Aschecte]

I may be able to shed some light here.... there are a couple possibilities that are throwing you off.... #1 yes beersmith can be hard to setup correctly but once you get a hang of it the program is pretty accurate. so first things first NO beersmith is not 100% accurate with the default values for the cooler as thermodynamics have too many variables for teh program to know exactly what your losses are and those losses can happen between each brew session and also between seasons as temperatures outside can change your numbers. all that said it sounds like you are hitting your mash temps etc it sounds like only your end volume is what is the matter. I would start by looking at the boil off rate there is a fairly accurate formula to figure you hourly boil off based on your pots diameter Litres per hour boiled off = pi*(diameter of kettle in cms/2)*(diameter of kettle in cms/2)*0.00428.

put the number of liters converted to gallons into your equipment setup that will be your boil off rate. Next look at your boil times make sure beersmith knows how long you want to boil for as this will throw off the volume as well. Finally look at your deadspace volume requirements for the mashtun as well as what you want your losses to trub eetc to be as this will also effect the amunt of wort you going to collect in the end as well. If you can export your system set up I can take a look at how you have it set and maybe that will shed more light as to what is going on. The easiest fix is to just boil until you get to the volume you want.

 

[Eddiebosox]

Batch sparge or fly?

Batch.

 

[arnoldk2]

I had the same problem except I was collecting not enough wort making my OG higher than what I wanted. I would fix this by adding a gallon of boiled water into my carboy. My problem was beersmiths default boil off for me was not enough. In a 60 minute boil I boil off about 2 gallons of water. I like a really good boil. I adjusted the evaporation rate and low and behold I got the correct volumes. I didn't calculate what my evaporation rate was. All I knew was when I added my wort into the carboy I was always a gallon to short. It took me a couple batches to dial it in. Also, just an fyi, if you adjust the settings with your equipment beersmith doesn't automatically adjust all the recipes with the changes in the equipment profile. You have to reselect your equipment in existing recipes before the changes go in effect.

 

[Eddiebosox]

The easiest fix is to just boil until you get to the volume you want.

I thought of that but that can be a problem with my hop additions.

 

[billl]

I don't use the software, but if you are always off in the same direction, it is a pretty simple fix. If you get 1 gallon too much post boil, just start with 1 gallon less sparge.

You can also "fix" that midstream by just boiling off a gallon before you start your hop additions.

 

[LandoLincoln]

A few things to ponder...

Water volume expands approximately 2% when going from room temp to mash temp (around 150° F).
Water volume expands approximately 4% when going from room temp to boil temp (212° F).

So if you want 13 actual gallons of wort going into your boil kettle, you need 13.25 measured gallons of wort leaving your mash tun.
If you want 11 actual gallons of wort going into your fermenters, you need 11.5 measured gallons of wort leaving your boil kettle.

You didn't mention how you're measuring your water throughout the process. Do you have sight glasses, or are you using some kind of calibrated measuring stick?

 

[kingwood-kid]

Start by figuring out what your boil-off rate is (Full disclosure: I have absolutely no idea what mine is). Then sparge so that when you boil-off at that rate, you get the amount of beer you want. Whatever you're sparging after that has an excellent chance of being low-gravity, tannic and ill-suited for brewing. However, it does make for a fantastic and nearly free yeast starter.

 

[Eddiebosox]

a friend said to ignore the suggested sparge amount and simply measure how much you get from first running, take away your boil off amount, and just sparge until you get to the 5 gallon level. that should work, but my problem isnt that i ahve to much or too little wort, its really a problem of hitting my gravity.

 

[Eddiebosox]

A few things to ponder...

Water volume expands approximately 2% when going from room temp to mash temp (around 150° F).
Water volume expands approximately 4% when going from room temp to boil temp (212° F).

So if you want 13 actual gallons of wort going into your boil kettle, you need 13.25 measured gallons of wort leaving your mash tun.
If you want 11 actual gallons of wort going into your fermenters, you need 11.5 measured gallons of wort leaving your boil kettle.

You didn't mention how you're measuring your water throughout the process. Do you have sight glasses, or are you using some kind of calibrated measuring stick?

measuring stick, which is a rough estimate. I had 7 gallons at the start of the boil, but after an hour, i was only down a 3/4ths of a gallon. my burner is not the best. I'm just going to lower my sparge amount on the fly during brewday based on what my first runnings amount to.

 

[dbrewski]

I have a ten gallon pot and a BG10 burner, and my burnoff rate is 1.5 gallons for a rolling boil. Know your target volumes and don't put more into the pot than you can burnoff during your planned boil time. So yes, I measure the volume of liquid going into my kettle before I boil. After you have done this a few times you will get the hand of your system. This is why I don't use brewing software. I like to figure it out myself because I learn it better. Not knocking anyone using software, most people do.

 

[dbrewski]

a friend said to ignore the suggested sparge amount and simply measure how much you get from first running, take away your boil off amount, and just sparge until you get to the 5 gallon level. that should work, but my problem isnt that i ahve to much or too little wort, its really a problem of hitting my gravity.

Are you sure? In your first post you're saying you ended up wtih 6.5 gallons of 1.062 wort. If that had been 5 gallons it would have ended up 1.080 which is pretty darn close. Of course you don't really want 5 gallons exactly, you must have some kettle loss, so adjust accordingly.

Sounds to me like you need a better burner! The BG10's are cheap burners to swap out. I also got a 30psi adjustable regulator for my propane. Now I can crank the BTU's.

 

[leaf]

Take more gravity readings before and during boil?
Have some dme when your under, take some wort out and add water if your over.

In the famous words of Jesse Pinkman:
"Its all about the weight, yo!"

Ah, but volumes... >_< finding out the boiloff rate for your kettle can do wonders..

 

[Aschecte]

measuring stick, which is a rough estimate. I had 7 gallons at the start of the boil, but after an hour, i was only down a 3/4ths of a gallon. my burner is not the best. I'm just going to lower my sparge amount on the fly during brewday based on what my first runnings amount to.

Ok then you have your answer !!! You are collecting to much pre boil so let's say you do have a .75 gallon per hour boil off rate and you want 5 gallons you would collect 6 gallons pre boil after the boil you will have 5.25 gallons and you leave the .25 gallon behind of trub. Or something of that nature it sounds like the answer has been here the whole time.

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

Ok then you have your answer !!! You are collecting to much pre boil so let's say you do have a .75 gallon per hour boil off rate and you want 5 gallons you would collect 6 gallons pre boil after the boil you will have 5.25 gallons and you leave the .25 gallon behind of trub. Or something of that nature it sounds like the answer has been here the whole time.

This can be fairly easily done, just put exactly 5 gallons of water in your brew pot and boil it for an hour. Then measure how much you have left...use that for your boil off rate.

it sounds like OP already has a pretty good idea, although im a bit concerned if your only boiling off .5 gallons in 60 minutes what your boil looks like. I have a pretty muted boil(not jumping out of the pot) in a 8 Gallon aluminum pot and i boil off like 1.5g in an hour.

 

[FATC1TY]

I thought of that but that can be a problem with my hop additions.

Figure out what you boil off in 1 hour. At that point, no matter what you have, boil it until you know you want 5.5 gallons after boil, and at 6.5 you add your hops and go from there.

The only issues with that, is the lighter beers, you might end up caramelizing it slightly and raising the SRM a hair perhaps.

 

[FATC1TY]

This can be fairly easily done, just put exactly 5 gallons of water in your brew pot and boil it for an hour. Then measure how much you have left...use that for your boil off rate.

it sounds like OP already has a pretty good idea, although im a bit concerned if your only boiling off .5 gallons in 60 minutes what your boil looks like. I have a pretty muted boil(not jumping out of the pot) in a 8 Gallon aluminum pot and i boil off like 1.5g in an hour.

I'll boil hard enough to jump out of the pot, and in my 12 gal SS kettle, I get roughly 1 gal an hour just about. Size of the pot, and climate/weather have a bit to do with it as well.