Help with Jockey Box Setup

[brewnoob98]

Hi all,

Homebrewtalk noob here. I have a jockey box on wheels that I intend to rent out for parties, tailgates, weddings etc.. But I am having trouble getting it to pour without sputtering as soon as I pull the tap. Also, the beer is very foamy. The bubbles are quite big if that info is of any use.

While pouring from the first tap, I was noticing that the stream of beer would be nearly entirely liquid and then all bubbles, and this pattern would continue for as long as the tap was pulled. Retapping with the second tap produced a more consistent stream but very foamy beer.

I believe I can rule out temperature as being an issue. The keg was chilled in ice for at least two hours prior to pouring, and the jockey box was filled with ice also. I poured a few beers through the tap to get it nice and cold too.

Any and all ideas/troubleshooting would be greatly appreciated! Pictures/videos in the link below.

https://imgur.com/gallery/8lWRlCH

 

[IslandLizard]

Hi @brewnoob98, welcome to HBT!

The one thing that stands out is that your beer lines to and from the jockey box are very wide, having a large internal diameter (ID). What are they 1/2" ID or so?
Those wide beer lines lower the restriction needed to prevent CO2 coming out of the beer while going through the line.

So I'd start by replacing your beer lines with regular 3/16" ID (7/16"OD) thick-walled (1/8") vinyl beer line (Type: Bevlex 200).
This tubing is likely available at a local homebrew store, call em up. Don't get any larger inner diameter tubing, 3/16" ID, that's what you need!

Notes_1:

1. You'll have to make sure the 3/16" ID tubing fits over your barbs and coils. So take a variety of those with you, and a keg coupler.
2. Dipping the end of the tubing in some hot water right before sliding it over the barb will help if it's a very tight fit.
3. Also pick up smaller worm clamps, or even better, Oetiker clamps of the right diameter(s). And you'll need pinching pliers to crimp those ears.

Notes_2:
There's better beer (and gas) tubing around, called EVA barrier tubing, which have very low oxygen permeability, keeping the beer fresher with time. 5mm ID (8mm OD) would probably be well suited. It comes in 4mm ID / 8mm OD too.
But you'll also need to buy the special push-to-connect fittings for those EVA lines, and most likely, some adapters.

 

[IslandLizard]

On one of your vids I see you're turning a secondary regulator which stops just shy of 18 psi.
Since you're using secondary regulators, they regulate the individual pressure of each keg, which is great to serve a variety of beer at different carbonation levels.
Just make sure the primary regulator's pressure is set a few psi higher than the highest pressure you'd use on one of your secondaries.

 

[brewnoob98]

Hi @brewnoob98, welcome to HBT!

The one thing that stands out is that your beer lines to and from the jockey box are very wide, having a large internal diameter (ID). What are they 1/2" ID or so?
Those wide beer lines lower the restriction needed to prevent CO2 coming out of the beer while going through the line.

So I'd start by replacing your beer lines with regular 3/16" ID (7/16"OD) thick-walled (1/8") vinyl beer line (Type: Bevlex 200).
This tubing is likely available at a local homebrew store, call em up. Don't get any larger inner diameter tubing, 3/16" ID, that's what you need!

Notes_1:

1. You'll have to make sure the 3/16" ID tubing fits over your barbs and coils. So take a variety of those with you, and a keg coupler.
2. Dipping the end of the tubing in some hot water right before sliding it over the barb will help if it's a very tight fit.
3. Also pick up smaller worm clamps, or even better, Oetiker clamps of the right diameter(s). And you'll need pinching pliers to crimp those ears.

Notes_2:
There's better beer (and gas) tubing around, called EVA barrier tubing, which have very low oxygen permeability, keeping the beer fresher with time. 5mm ID (8mm OD) would probably be well suited. It comes in 4mm ID / 8mm OD too.
But you'll also need to buy the special push-to-connect fittings for those EVA lines, and most likely, some adapters.

Thanks for the advice, the lines are 5/16. The frustrating thing is that sometimes it pours beautifully with no problems and other times it pours like in the video.

 

[SonomaBrewer]

Some sizeable bubbles in the line too. Is there a leak at the keg out connection? Or perhaps the limited flow restriction or larger line size is allowing CO2 to come out of solution while in transit.

Agree with @IslandLizard, would make the switch to 3/16" line and also check the gasket at your out post.

 

[brewnoob98]

Some sizeable bubbles in the line too. Is there a leak at the keg out connection? Or perhaps the limited flow restriction or larger line size is allowing CO2 to come out of solution while in transit.

Agree with @IslandLizard, would make the switch to 3/16" line and also check the gasket at your out post.

From what I can tell there is no leak at the keg out connection. If there was I would see beer leaking out, correct? And could you elaborate a bit on the gasket at the out post? Sorry I am new to the lingo.

 

[wsmith1625]

Great idea and nice setup, but wrong beer lines. It will be a PIA switching because you'll likely need to replace hose barbs too, but it should take care of your foamy pours.

 

[IslandLizard]

the lines are 5/16.

5/16" ID is perhaps a tad wider than ideal. I see carbonation coming out of solution (foaming in the lines), which is an indication of the problem you're having.

It's all about balance. If 2 or 3 smaller issues stack up on the wrong side, they can also cause the issues you're having.
Line diameter/line restriction, beer carbonation level, beer temperature, keg pressure, temperature of the lines, even temperature of shanks and faucets, they all bring their part to the equation. If one is off, the equilibrium is disturbed, and the pour suffers.

The frustrating thing is that sometimes it pours beautifully with no problems and other times it pours like in the video.

When does it pour fine? After a few pints have gone through?

 

[IslandLizard]

Is there a leak at the keg out connection?
[...] and also check the gasket at your out post

The OP is using Sanke kegs, those issues don't apply here.

From what I can tell there is no leak at the keg out connection. If there was I would see beer leaking out, correct? And could you elaborate a bit on the gasket at the out post? Sorry I am new to the lingo.

You're using Sanke kegs, they don't have posts and associated washers/gaskets, those are found on "corny kegs."

On most beer trucks the whole cargo box is insulated and chilled with an AC. That keeps all kegs, lines, shanks and faucets cold and at the same temperature.

Do you keep the kegs cold in between experimenting with this setup, such as in a fridge? If kegs are allowed to warm up it takes a day (or 2) in cold storage to restore their temp/carbonation balance.

 

[brewnoob98]

The OP is using Sanke kegs, those issues don't apply here.


You're using Sanke kegs, they don't have posts and associated washers/gaskets, those are found on "corny kegs."

On most beer trucks the whole cargo box is insulated and chilled with an AC. That keeps all kegs, lines, shanks and faucets cold and at the same temperature.

Do you keep the kegs cold in between experimenting with this setup, such as in a fridge? If kegs are allowed to warm up it takes a day (or 2) in cold storage to restore their temp/carbonation balance.

Interesting point, the keg that I used had been at room temp until I put it on ice for about two hours before tapping.

 

[IslandLizard]

Interesting point, the keg that I used had been at room temp until I put it on ice for about two hours before tapping.

Glad I brought that up, that could well be the issues you're having.
Yeah, you need to keep them cold or have them cold for at least a day, before serving.

Q: Why does the whole keg need to be cold?
A: There's a spear inside the keg, going down to the bottom. Even when the bottom part is cold (in ice) the beer tapped from there rises up in the spear, through the warm beer above, before it gets to your coupler. From there it moves through your lines which aren't cold yet either, into the coil in the jockey box. There it gets chilled again...

 

[pvpeacock]

P.S. When using a jockey box with a coil (as opposed to a plate chiller), you should immerse the coil in ice water, not just ice.

 

[Bobby_M]

Agree, ice alone in the cooler isn't going to do a great job. Fill with ice, then top off with water.

I didn't see any mention of what tube diameter the stainless coils were but generally you want the inside diameter stay exactly the same from the keg all the way to the faucet. If the beer ever goes from a small ID to a larger one, you get a pressure drop and CO2 comes out of solution immediately. At the very least, the tubing between the coil and faucet should be the smallest (such as 4mm ID EVA barrier).

Most foaming through a jockeybox happens when the beer in the keg warms up, but the input pressure stays the same. When beer warms, it takes higher pressures to keep CO2 dissolved. If a box is to be designed for kegs that are allowed to warm up, it either needs a longer, more narrow tubing so the pressure can be increased or flow control faucets can also help.

 

[hottpeper13]

At our club picinic my keg was pouring foamy and was straight out of the kegerator and insulated. We switched to the flow control tap and all was fine. Too simple a solution!