Help with Inactive Secondary

[segallis]

I did a Thomas Hardy Ale clone all-grain recipe 4 weeks ago. O.G. was 1.130 and pitched a starter of White Labs WLP004 Irish Ale yeast. Fermentation was at 64 degrees F and active, as usual. By day 4 my Tilt was reading 1.054. After 2 weeks I racked to secondary (which I normally don't do). Turns out my Tilt had a bunch of krausen stuck on top so was skewing the readings. With a clean Tilt, I had a reading of 1.047 at the start of secondary. Recipe called for finishing with an aggressive yeast - also something I never do.

I did a second starter of White Labs WLP090 San Diego Super Yeast, which was active when I pitched it 2 days later.

It's been 3 days since I pitched it and my Tilt is still showing 1.045. Not sure why I am not seeing the S.G drop.

Temp is at 68F - should I bring up the temperature?

Is it just that there is no O2 left for the yeast?

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
-Greg

 

[Kickass]

Can you post your grain bill and mash temp?

Generally, pitching additional yeast after fermentation has stalled is a futile act. The combination of easily fermented sugars and vital nutrients being consumed already creates an undesirable environment for the second pitched yeast.

 

[DBhomebrew]

1.045 from 1.130? That's ~12%ABV. Well within White Lab's advertised tolerance range of 10-15%.

 

[hotbeer]

Wouldn't hurt to double check your SG with a hydrometer if you have one.

You did calibrate the Tilt or at least check it in water first didn't you?

I also think adding yeast is futile. If the yeast in there stalled, they stalled for a reason. Just be patient and wait a few more days or a week to see if they decide to do anything. Maybe try to rouse them by swirling the beer in the FV if everything has gone to the bottom.

Your mash temps well controlled? Just used some maris otter or similar to get your high SG with no added sugar?

 

[segallis]

My setup is a 20 Gal Electric Brew-Boss BIAB using the COFI filter. Grain bill was 27# Maris Otter, 2# CaraVienne 1# Carafoam. Mash was 120 min, recirculating, temp at 153F to 154F the entire time. Boil was about 150 mins. 3# DME added to boil. With that mash temp I expect a little less attenuation.

I use the Tilt only for a swag of day-to-day delta SG. I had cal'd it a while back in water for 1.000 (never did a sugar cal). Actually, the numbers I posted were the uncal'd Tilt reading. It is currently sitting at 1.045 uncal'd, 1.033 cal'd. I don't really trust the cal'd number anyway, since it was reading about 0.013 lower than my hydrometer when it went into the fermenter. Unfortunately my hydrometer rolled off the table when I was transferring to secondary, so I really don't know how close the 1.045/1.033 really is to actual.

My quads normally finish at around 1.020 (even as high as 1.025), so I'm wondering if the original WLP004 yeast may have just finished the job before I ever got around to pitching the WLP090. I guess I will know the truth when I keg, using a new hydrometer.

Thanks,
-Greg

 

[DBhomebrew]

So, maybe as high as 14%? No way is a new pitch going to take off in that vat of yeast poison.

For a future batch, if you're interested in a higher attenuating strain taking over after a more flavorful, less attenuating strain, consider pitching the second at the third or so day. Many brewers do this with Windsor/Notty.

 

[Kickass]

With all the variables, you’re firmly in speculation territory. I’d wait for the new hydrometer to get some accurate and useful data.

 

[bracconiere]

could add wine yeast with some gluco, if ~12% isn't strong enough..might get it up to 16%?

 

[segallis]

So, maybe as high as 14%? No way is a new pitch going to take off in that vat of yeast poison.

For a future batch, if you're interested in a higher attenuating strain taking over after a more flavorful, less attenuating strain, consider pitching the second at the third or so day. Many brewers do this with Windsor/Notty.

If the 1.033 is accurate, it's probably sitting at 15% ABV.

The WLP090 states tolerance up to 15%. I thought about using champagne yeast, but the recipe called for WLP090. And the three recipes I leveraged from all called for pitching after primary was complete - 3 weeks post brewday. But, ya, I may do what you said and pitch within the first week.

I'm at 4 weeks, so I'll just keg & bottle tomorrow and get an F.G. with the new hydrometer that arrived today.

If it's actually in the 30's, I will plan to use WLP715 champagne yeast the next time I try this recipe, just to see if it can finish the job.

I suppose I will eventually know whether the yeast in this batch weren't happy with the fermentables remaining vs something else like alcohol or O2, since I am bottling 20 pints of it with priming sugar and cask yeast.

Although I am a little concerned about bottling now since the CBC-1 cask yeast specs 18% ABV for primary, but only 12-14% ABV for refermentation. I have always used it for bottles I want to age a few years, but I am usually in the 10-12% rABV range.

Maybe I should use a wine yeast like EC1118 for bottling?

-G

 

[Kickass]

WLP090, WPL715, CBC-1, ERC1118, ABCD, etc, etc. I highly doubt anything will drive more attention at this point. What’s your new hydro saying?

 

[segallis]

I wound up adding some EC1118 to see if the S.G would budge No change after another week so it looked like there was nothing left to ferment.
Just got around to kegging & bottling a few days ago. New hydrometer showed 1.038 F.G. (so it's sitting at about 14% ABV)

I primed 2 gals and bottled 8 pints with CBC-1 and 8 pints with EC1118. We'll see if either or both sets carbonate. I'll probably test a bottle in about 3 months and see what I have. The rest I will try periodically over the next 1 to 5 years. The 3 gal keg I will force carbonate in about 8 months.

The good news is it appears to be on track to become one of the best barleywines I have ever tasted I'll prob repeat this recipe in about 6 to 12 months.

-G

 

[Bobby_M]

That's about the most attenuation I would expect at a mash temp of 154 and malt extract added. If you're looking for more than that, next time use some simple sugar and mash at 149 for 2 hours.

Based on the brewfather starter calculator, you'd want a 3.7 liter starter with a single pack of white labs assuming it's on a stirplate.

 

[segallis]

Thanks Bobby.

My stir-plate and beaker are limited to 2L. Even for my normal 12 gal big beers, conventional wisdom calls for a 3-4 L starter. But I've always pitched a 2L - usually a 2 or 3 stepped starter - and have never had any issues. (That batch's starter actually foamed up out of the beaker on the first 1L step). No slow starts, no stalled fermentations, no off flavors. Usually, I wind up emptying a 1 gal blow-off pitcher 2 or 3 times during the first few days.

I usually mash in the 150 to 154, for more body (I consider a high ABV a byproduct of a full-body, big beer, rather than it being my goal). Always 2 hours. My opinion is a higher F.G. corresponds to a fuller and more complex brew, so I typically don't care what my F.G is. Although I have never had anything outside the 1.010 to 1.025 range, so 1.038 F.G. was new territory for me.

My current Quad came in at 1.090 and is presently at 1.015 (if I believe my now, 2-point calibrated Tilt) after 5 days. (No extract, but some D-180 and molasses.) So back in my comfort zone.

Another Barleywine is scheduled for next brew day in a week or two, but this will be "simpler" than the Thomas Hardy Ale - no 3 hour boil, prob closer to 1.100 O.G. (More like my normal Quads and Wee Heavys)

Now if I can only keep up with SNF, MNF, TNF, and Red Zone demand

-G