Help with high final gravity

[mman824]

I brewed a Surly Bender clone kit from Northern Brewer two weeks ago yesterday, and when I racked it to secondary the gravity reading I got was 1.025. That seems pretty high, since BeerSmith told me it should be around 1.019. I've been reading around and trying to trouble shoot on my own but I can't think of anything else.

Grain Bill:
8lbs 2 Row
2lbs Aromatic Malt
12oz Crystal Malt 60L
12oz Special B
12oz Oats, Malted
4oz Chocolate Malt

Yeast: White Labs WLP007 Dry English Ale
-2 qt starter

O.G. 1.062

Mash temp: 155°F start, 154° finish (60 min mash)
-mashed w/18qt water
-mashout to 168 and fly sparge
-used pH 5.2 stabilizer in mash and sparge water (tapwater)

I collected about 7 gallons for the boil, boiled really hard and ended up with about 4.9 gallons in the fermenter. Cooled to about 62 with a plate chiller, this was the first time I put a screen in the boil kettle so draining it (by gravity) took a looong time and it got too cold. I pitched my yeast anyway after shaking the crap outta the carboy. In 24-36 hours I had a REALLY vigorous fermentation going. Slowed about three days later, temp was stable at 67 through fermentation. Left it until today when I racked it to secondary.

-So, I'm worried about my high FG. I figured with the strong fermentation that I had, aeration wasn't the problem. Temperature might have been a little low at first, but after the first 24 hrs it was 67°F, mid-range for this yeast. I tested my thermometers today, I have a digital Taylor and a laboratory-style alcohol thermo, both read 210-211 boiling (accurate for my altitude) and 33 in an ice slushy, so just about perfect - which rules out high mash temp. I stirred it pretty well at the beginning and at 20 mins, and my OG was fine so I don't think it was an efficiency problem. I'm stumped, and don't know what there is to do but wait and see what happens. I was going to do about a 2-week secondary and then bottle, but I'd appreciate if anybody has some advice for what I can do (to this batch or the next) to get that FG down. Thanks!

 

[kafkasbug]

This may not help, but after having what I thought were efficiency problems with my last 2 batches, I got around to calibrating my new hydrometer and found that it is 4 points off.

Also, WLP007 has medium to high flocculation. You may need to gently agitate the fermenter to try and rouse some of the yeast back into suspension.

 

[DAlexander]

Like previously said, try giving your primary a bit of agitation troughout the primary. I usually do every other day mostly to get a good whiff of whats coming out of the air lock but also to liven up the yeast. Just get a little swirl going in there, wont hurt.

 

[mman824]

Alright thanks, I'll try swirling it around a bit and see if that helps. I've had high final gravities a few times now, in extract and all grain. I usually just roll with it cause I'm making dark beers like a vanilla stout or imperial porter, but this one worries me more being an amber/brown ale.

 

[gbarron]

My experience with 007 is that it attenuates really well even in the low to mid 60's but it takes time. I agree with others to agitate. Might consider a lower mash temp next go around as well. If you are still wanting a fuller body/mouthfeel, add some carapils to the mash.

 

[bobbrews]

I assume THIS would be the issue:...

I collected about 7 gallons for the boil, boiled really hard and ended up with about 4.9 gallons in the fermenter.

Your OG and boiloff were probably both higher/more than anticipated, thus giving you a higher FG. Did you hit your target OG? And was the well-stirred sample measured with a hydrometer when the wort was in the 60's (F)?

Either that, or old yeast, and/or not enough cells to work with from the start.

 

[mman824]

I definitely had more boiloff than I expected. I wanted an OG of 1.059 and I got 1.062. I took the reading at about 62F, before adding my starter. The yeast was new, the 'use before' date was late April so with the starter I should have had a good pitching rate. I also washed the yeast when I racked to secondary and made a starter for my brew day tomorrow, which had a nice kreusen on it this morning when I got up, so I think the yeast viability wasn't the problem.

I get why I had a high OG, but why would that make my FG higher?

 

[kafkasbug]

The only thing I can think is that your yeast flocculation happened too quickly. The White Labs page on it has at least one other commenter who has had a similar issues.

The only fixes for that I know is to agitate the fermenter or possibly pitch more yeast into the secondary. I've never tried the latter, but others have had to do so for higher gravity beers, especially prior to bottle conditioning.

 

[mman824]

Ok well I'll check to make sure my hydrometer is reading accurately, and maybe if the gravity stays high I'll re-pitch some yeast.

 

[dannyhawkins]

Sometimes a "hard" boil or long boil can cause darkening of the wort due to maillard reactions with the available sugars. This in turn can cause more long chain sugars and so forth making the wort less fermentable. I think the boil and the mash temperature teamed up on you and kept the gravity up. Give it time though, WLP-007 brought a barleywine of mine from 1.117 to 1.024. Also you should raise the temp, any chance of off flavors is gone by now. The yeast will be more likely to finish at a warmer temp

 

[mman824]

Thanks for the info. I'm trying to keep it as warm as I can, but since it's winter in Michigan and we only heat my apartment to about 68°, that's kind of difficult. I searched around the forum and found the following advice: Rack a 'stuck' ferment onto the yeast cake from a good one. So....I did. I had an IPA that used some of the yeast I washed from this batch that fermented well so when I racked that to secondary I transferred Bender onto the lees. When I racked the gravity was about 1.025 on my hydrometer, reading at 65°. Comparing that to water at 65, I think an 'adjusted' reading would be closer to 1.023, but that's still higher than I'd like. I'll try to remember to post updates in case somebody reads this later with the same problem.

 

[JayDubWill]

Grain Bill:
8lbs 2 Row
2lbs Aromatic Malt
12oz Crystal Malt 60L
12oz Special B
12oz Oats, Malted
4oz Chocolate Malt

Looking at your grain bill, crystal 60, special B, oats, and chocolate all contribute unfermentable sugars. That combined with your mash temp of 155would make me think your FG of 1.023('ish) is probably normal. If it drops further on the yeast cake, I would call it a bonus, and i'm interested in seeing what it does; keep us posted!

 

[mman824]

No such luck. Bottled yesterday at a final gravity of 1.025 (didn't worry about hydrometer 'adjustment'), so I didn't see any movement. On initial tasting, it's got some chocolate and caramel notes, with a toasted/burnt aftertaste, but it's not sweet like I was worried about so I'm pretty happy with it.

 

[Tracebustin]

Oops, wrong topic post somehow.

Apologies.

 

[JayDubWill]

good to hear. I had a batch that (I think) I scorched during the boil and had a bad burnt twang to it. IT took MONTHS to condition out...like 9... but it finally mellowed and turned out so-so.

 

[mman824]

Hmmmmm....now I'm a little worried. The next beer I did after that one also finished out at about 1.026 - and I mashed at 151°F and boiled 'softly' so I'm not sure what could be causing this... Grain bill was 14lbs 2-row, 1lb Crystal 40L, and .5 lbs Crystal 60L

 

[JayDubWill]

What yeast and temp did you ferment at?

 

[mman824]

Fermented at 68°F in a temp-controlled fridge, used the WLP-007 that I harvested from the Bender. I might just not have given it enough time, I 'rushed' it with an 8-day primary and 10-day secondary (with dry-hopping) before bottling so it'll be ready for St. Patty's Day. Hopefully I didn't bottle it before it finished and I won't have any bombs.

 

[JayDubWill]

You've got me, WLP-007 is listed as highly attenuative and the temp is in the right range. My only other guess would be to check your thermometers for accuracy. I once had an oven probe type thermometer that was something like 14 degrees off. If you don't have a second one to compare it too, I've heard of people taking measurements of ice water (32-33 degrees) and boiling water (210-212 depending on altitude) to test.