Help! Want more RED in my Irish Red Ale

[Zippy123]

In the past year I've brewed 3-4 Irish Red Ale recipies. They've all been tasty, but they've all been more golden or brown than red. My most recent batch (I forget the source offhand) is my favorite so far flavor-wise, but still it is not very red. I consider it well balanced; it does not lean toward any of the flavors in the BJCP guidelines but has nice light bisquit flavor. The roasted grain flavors are perceptible but not overpowering. I believe the flavor would still be good with some additional roasted flavor. I think I need to add more of the roasted grains that are currently in the recipe, but I'm not sure how much of which grains in the recipe to increase. I would prefer to stick with the current grain bill but alter the amounts for more red. I would appreciate your suggestions! I use BIAB method. And purists beware, I mostly use Briess malts because they are local to me and my LHBS is RiteBrew.

8 lbs Briess pale ale malt 2 row
2 lbs Bestmalz Best Red X
4 oz Briess flaked barley
4 oz Briess Victory malt
4 oz Briess Special Roast
4 oz Briess Caramel 120L
1 oz Briess Roasted Barley (I'm thinking this should be kicked up to 3-4 oz?)
60 min mash @150F
1.5 oz Kent Golding @60 min
Lallemand Nottingham

The color in the photo is accurate; more golden than red. The beer is actually quite clear; the glass is sweaty due to high humidity when I took the pic.

0.5 oz Kent Golding @15 min

 

[VTMongoose]

Roasted Barley is where the red color should be coming from. Try brewing MeanBrews as a baseline:

https://web.brewfather.app/share/YJSP8BnxFaHBZglXXY7PiQxOiAyP1o

 

[G_robertus]

You've got a lot going on in your recipe. I've read that crystal gets you more of a brown colour and my recipes with crystal are more brown as well. I don't think you need Victory and I'm not sure what Special Roast is, but you can probably get rid of it.
My current recipe is base malt + roast. The latest version used two to see if I can get some complexity. I don't have it open right now, but it was something like this:

OG 1.045
IBU 24
Colour 36 EBC (18 SRM)
GP to get to OG
2:1 RB:Chocolate to get the colour.

I thought this beer was a tad too sweet, so I'll increase the bitterness a bit. I also added late EKG hops and found them distracting. Your hopping seems fine imo. I'm considering Fuggle, but I don't think it needs it. GP is quite sweet, but I prefer it over MO in this beer. Maybe MO is better in autumn, but the sweetness is great in summer. If you want to add something for mouth feel or head you can sub any amount of base malt for wheat, flaked barley, oats or whatever you like to adjust mouth feel with. I've dropped it all because I like mine dry.
Lighting also impacts the colour btw. Mine was very red, but looked darker and more brown in poor lighting. See pic with backlight below.




Edit:
Full recipe
97.1% GP
1.9% Roasted Barley
1% chocolate malt

13 IBU Styrian Goldings @ FWH
11 IBU EKG @ 30

S-04 yeast

 

[MaxStout]

Another way: just pale malt and Red-X. Most of those other ingredients are working against you in making a red beer. You could keep the flaked barley for better head retention, though.

You can even do a Red-X SMASH, as the malt has more than enough DP to self-convert. I did one once, it came out a nice, deep red.

 

[VTMongoose]

Here is another example of a beer that's quite red. This is a Schwarzbier where I undershot on the carafa and it came out more a deep ruby than truly "black"

67% Pils
23% Munich I
5.8% Caramunich I
4.4% Carafa III (not special - don't use this - it's astringent - use Special I, II, or III) - roasted barley would achieve the same effect

 

[Broothru]

Another way: just pale malt and Red-X. Most of those other ingredients are working against you in making a red beer. You could keep the flaked barley for better head retention, though.

You can even do a Red-X SMASH, as the malt has more than enough DP to self-convert. I did one once, it came out a nice, deep red.

Concur. More Red-X, less caramel, adjuncts, specialty and roasted malts. Control the color depth and intensity with more or less pale malt, specifically Maris Otter.

Back to basics. Less is more with regard to adjuncts and specialty malts.

 

[T Murph]

I agree that the caramel you used lends more brown than red. I make a red ale 2 or 3 times each year. I use 8 lbs pale 2 row, 1.25 lbs caramel 20, .75 lb Cara pils and 4 oz of Roasted Barley. For hops I use 1 oz Fuggles 4.1 aa for 60 min and 1 oz Cascade Cones 5 aa for 30 min. I use Chico 1056 yeast. It is one of my summer time favorites.

 

[Broothru]

I agree that the caramel you used lends more brown than red. I make a red ale 2 or 3 times each year. I use 8 lbs pale 2 row, 1.25 lbs caramel 20, .75 lb Cara pils and 4 oz of Roasted Barley. For hops I use 1 oz Fuggles 4.1 aa for 60 min and 1 oz Cascade Cones 5 aa for 30 min. I use Chico 1056 yeast. It is one of my summer time favorites.

I had really meant to brew another Irish Red this year, but life got in the way, and I’ve pretty much run out of time. Lots of travel planned starting Thursday that goes through Thanksgiving. Might have to wait for St. Patrick’s Day .

Totally agree with a light hand of 20L, and definitely Fuggles. I never had considered using Cascade, but it sounds really great in combination with the Fuggles. I’m gonna’ give that one a ‘go.’

 

[T Murph]

@Broothru I took home a 3rd place ribbon in a Midwest regional competition with this recipe back in 1995. I still brew it today. I allowed a little brewery in Henepin Il to copy it for their flagship beer. They called theirs Lincoln Red it became quite popular among Chicago's red ale fans for some time. I called mine Red Nut Ale because while removing my Mash Tun I accidentally dropped a red nut into the boil kettle. Fortunately I was able to retrieve the nut with a magnet and no damage was done. It is still one of my favorite brews.

 

[Broothru]

@Broothru I took home a 3rd place ribbon in a Midwest regional competition with this recipe back in 1995. I still brew it today. I allowed a little brewery in Henepin Il to copy it for their flagship beer. They called theirs Lincoln Red it became quite popular among Chicago's red ale fans for some time. I called mine Red Nut Ale because while removing my Mash Tun I accidentally dropped a red nut into the boil kettle. Fortunately I was able to retrieve the nut with a magnet and no damage was done. It is still one of my favorite brews.

Great story, and looks like a solid recipe. I’ve also got a few favorites that I still brew from time to time, including two that both took Best of Show honors. Each brew session is a learning experience, and seeing other people’s recipes on this forum help reinforce the good outcomes and suggest how to improve on the ones that didn’t work out so well.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I mostly use Briess malts because they are local to me and my LHBS is RiteBrew

Have you seen their new (as of last fall) Crystal Red™ malt? RiteBrew (currently) has it in stock. There's an article on the Briess site that mentions a recipe for a red ale (17 SRM) that's 63.5% pilsen, 33% pale ale & 3.5% Crystal Red. I purchased some with my last order, so I'll be giving it a try over the next month or so in a couple of recipes.

Personally, my most interesting red beers use a debittered black malt (midnight wheat, blackprinz, ...) for coloring.

 

[bike2brew]

In the past year I've brewed 3-4 Irish Red Ale recipies. They've all been tasty, but they've all been more golden or brown than red. My most recent batch (I forget the source offhand) is my favorite so far flavor-wise, but still it is not very red. I consider it well balanced; it does not lean toward any of the flavors in the BJCP guidelines but has nice light bisquit flavor. The roasted grain flavors are perceptible but not overpowering. I believe the flavor would still be good with some additional roasted flavor. I think I need to add more of the roasted grains that are currently in the recipe, but I'm not sure how much of which grains in the recipe to increase. I would prefer to stick with the current grain bill but alter the amounts for more red. I would appreciate your suggestions! I use BIAB method. And purists beware, I mostly use Briess malts because they are local to me and my LHBS is RiteBrew.

8 lbs Briess pale ale malt 2 row
2 lbs Bestmalz Best Red X
4 oz Briess flaked barley
4 oz Briess Victory malt
4 oz Briess Special Roast
4 oz Briess Caramel 120L
1 oz Briess Roasted Barley (I'm thinking this should be kicked up to 3-4 oz?)
60 min mash @150F
1.5 oz Kent Golding @60 min
Lallemand Nottingham

The color in the photo is accurate; more golden than red. The beer is actually quite clear; the glass is sweaty due to high humidity when I took the pic.

View attachment 856517
0.5 oz Kent Golding @15 min

I like Briess malts too and try to brew Wisconsinibly despite being in Tennessee. Have wanted to give their Crystal Red malt a try if I'm able to find a distributor. As others have observed your malt bill is pretty complicated. I would look to simplify it with fewer malts that get the job done.

 

[bike2brew]

Have you seen their new (as of last fall) Crystal Red™ malt? RiteBrew (currently) has it in stock. There's an article on the Briess site that mentions a recipe for a red ale (17 SRM) that's 63.5% pilsen, 33% pale ale & 3.5% Crystal Red. I purchased some with my last order, so I'll be giving it a try over the next month or so in a couple of recipes.

Personally, my most interesting red beers use a debittered black malt (midnight wheat, blackprinz, ...) for coloring.

Like to hear about your experience. Maybe I can use it in my Amber recipe

 

[sibelman]

fwiw, my IPA with 8% 60L crystal and 92% pale malt is fairly red.

 

[Miraculix]

Red x is a nice malt but if your want it to be red, you would need to use it alone without further additions. At least within the 4-5% abv range.

However, taste-wise, this doesn't fit here. Your best bet would be pale malt plus a bit of roasted barley. That's all you need to get the red as perfect as possible.

 

[beersk]

What others have said is good advice: more roasted barley less adjuncts. Personally, an Irish Red Ale to me should be simple. No caramel malts, good base malts like Golden Promise or Maris Otter, maybe a biscuit malt like Victory or another roasted malt like Special roast, at about 7% and about 3% dark roasted barley. Gets me to about 15 SRM, which is perfect ruby red when brilliantly clear (which this beer should be). Then hop with some good EKG to about 20-25IBU. And obviously Wy1084 or some other equivalent Irish Ale yeast. Always turns out just how I feel an Irish Red should be.

 

[Broothru]

What others have said is good advice: more roasted barley less adjuncts. Personally, an Irish Red Ale to me should be simple. No caramel malts, good base malts like Golden Promise or Maris Otter, maybe a biscuit malt like Victory or another roasted malt like Special roast, at about 7% and about 3% dark roasted barley. Gets me to about 15 SRM, which is perfect ruby red when brilliantly clear (which this beer should be). Then hop with some good EKG to about 20-25IBU. Always turns out just how I feel an Irish Red should be.

I have what's left of a sixer of Smithwick's from last St. Patty's Day chilling in the beer fridge. The hell with green beer! Give me a beautiful Red Irish Ale. This thread has me itchin' to finish it off.

To me, Red-X combines the best parts of roasted barley, a touch of specialty malts like Victory, and a very light hand of light crystal all rolled up into a tight little package. When combined with Maris Otter/Golden Promise, hopped with Fuggles and EKG, and fermented with a proper Irish yeast strain, it truly produces a marvelous beer.

O.K., officially top spot in the Next To Brew list.

 

[beersk]

I have what's left of a sixer of Smithwick's from last St. Patty's Day chilling in the beer fridge. The hell with green beer! Give me a beautiful Red Irish Ale. This thread has me itchin' to finish it off.

To me, Red-X combines the best parts of roasted barley, a touch of specialty malts like Victory, and a very light hand of light crystal all rolled up into a tight little package. When combined with Maris Otter/Golden Promise, hopped with Fuggles and EKG, and fermented with a proper Irish yeast strain, it truly produces a marvelous beer.

O.K., officially top spot in the Next To Brew list.

Well, of any good Irish Red Ale, I would NOT choose Smithwick's! Wexford Cream Ale is really the way to go, though it is a bit sweeter and less roasty than I would prefer. Not sure if that sweetness is a function of C malts or low bittering hops and yeast character. The yeast character is quite prominent in that beer.

 

[Agent]

Have you seen their new (as of last fall) Crystal Red™ malt? RiteBrew (currently) has it in stock. There's an article on the Briess site that mentions a recipe for a red ale (17 SRM) that's 63.5% pilsen, 33% pale ale & 3.5% Crystal Red. I purchased some with my last order, so I'll be giving it a try over the next month or so in a couple of recipes.

Personally, my most interesting red beers use a debittered black malt (midnight wheat, blackprinz, ...) for coloring.

Are you an advertising bot trying to blend into natural conversation?

Because you succeeded at reminding me to put in my RB order before Friday, and to try the latest thing in Red beer magic. And that I should cycle through an Irish yeast for a while.

 

[Miraculix]

I have what's left of a sixer of Smithwick's from last St. Patty's Day chilling in the beer fridge. The hell with green beer! Give me a beautiful Red Irish Ale. This thread has me itchin' to finish it off.

To me, Red-X combines the best parts of roasted barley, a touch of specialty malts like Victory, and a very light hand of light crystal all rolled up into a tight little package. When combined with Maris Otter/Golden Promise, hopped with Fuggles and EKG, and fermented with a proper Irish yeast strain, it truly produces a marvelous beer.

O.K., officially top spot in the Next To Brew list.

We must have had different Red-x. To me it has absolutely ZERO roast and A LOT of crystal flavour. Not so much residual sweetness as the crystal impact might suggest, but still very crystal dominated flavour. For me this is very nice in an American red with lot's of late addition hops but it does not fit the well balanced Irish red at all in my oppinion. An Irish red must be well balanced, nothing extreme in there. Lower Ibus, not so much malt, not much roast, not must yeast character... everything on the lower end but also well balanced. Red-X is too extreme for this.

 

[BongoYodeler]

I've brewed the Raging Irish Red recipe a few times and it always came out a bright red for me and others who have brewed it, (pics in that recipe thread). However the last time I brewed it back in January I had trouble finishing off the keg. It tasted fine, but I think I am just getting tired of it. Next Irish Red I'll brew will be the recipe from the book, "Brewing Classic Styles." I've not brewed that one before but I've tasted one that someone else brewed and I really liked it.

 

[Miraculix]

I've brewed the Raging Irish Red recipe a few times and it always came out a bright red for me and others who have brewed it, (pics in that recipe thread). However the last time I brewed it back in January I had trouble finishing off the keg. It tasted fine, but I think I am just getting tired of it. Next Irish Red I'll brew will be the recipe from the book, "Brewing Classic Styles." I've not brewed that one before but I've tasted one that someone else brewed and I really liked it.

This might really result in a nice beer, but it is far away from an authentic Irish red. An Irish red is simple and not loaded with everything that can be found in the lhbs. And American hops are also not the ones you can usually find in there.

 

[BongoYodeler]

This might really result in a nice beer, but it is far away from an authentic Irish red. An Irish red is simple and not loaded with everything that can be found in the lhbs. And American hops are also not the ones you can usually find in there.

It's a nice easy drinker, (especially if you leave out the honey). I found that folks who rarely stray far from the yellow fizzy beers, when they tried this they enjoyed it. But I agree it's a far cry from traditional IRA.

 

[Zippy123]

Thanks all for your input. I have decided to try the following grain bill based on the nearly universal observations (1) there's a lot going on with the recipe and (2) roasted barley is where red should be coming from:

6 lbs Briess pale ale malt 2 row
4 lbs Bestmalz Best Red X
4 oz Briess flaked barley
4 oz Briess Roasted Barley

I figure worst case scenario I will have a brew that might not be exactly the color I am looking for but will still be palatable. I will also have a recipe that will be easier to adjust to achieve the desired color, and I think I should only have to adjust the roasted barly to do so.

I will remind myself along the way that a good tasting beer that is not exactly the color I want is a high quality problem.

 

[Rish]

https://www.mccormick.com/spices-and-flavors/extracts-and-food-colors/food-colors/red-food-color

 

[BongoYodeler]

https://www.mccormick.com/spices-and-flavors/extracts-and-food-colors/food-colors/red-food-color

My wife makes those, (Whoopie Pies!!), though she would never use food coloring.

 

[ba-brewer]

@grampamark posted a recipe of his red ale along with a picture of the beer that I thought had a nice red color.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/what-i-did-for-beer-today.294038/post-9321562
I have not brewed the recipe in the link but have it in beersmith to give it a try.

 

[Zippy123]

@grampamark posted a recipe of his red ale along with a picture of the beer that I thought had a nice red color.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/what-i-did-for-beer-today.294038/post-9321562
I have not brewed the recipe in the link but have it in beersmith to give it a try.

Picture shows what I am looking for in color. For some reason ritebrew doesn't carry Briess Black Barley but I think I could substitute Bairds roasted barley. I'll put this one on-deck. So many recipes, so little time...

 

[Beermeister32]

https://www.mccormick.com/spices-and-flavors/extracts-and-food-colors/food-colors/red-food-color

Yup. I shamefully used some red food coloring in an Irish Red once. Looked great!

 

[Broothru]

Yup. I shamefully used some red food coloring in an Irish Red once. Looked great!

I once used Irish moss in a German lager. Does that count as ‘true confessions’?