Help Please! Lager won't start fermenting!

[Jdaught]

Heres the situation. I brewed 10 gallons of Bock 6 days ago. Made a start with Wyeast 2308 and it didn't go to well. My methods were wrong and all the yeast ended up doing was taking a nap at the bottom of the jug. Well I pitched it anyway thinking maybe they would spring into action. Well they didn't. I waited 60 hours and still had nothing. Went to LHBS and they do not carry the W2308 so I got WPL833 instead. Since I was in a rush I got 2 vials and pitched one in each fermenter. (2 6.5 gal carboys with 5 gal each). It has been another 60 hours and I still have nothing happening. Fermentation temp has been held at 50 degrees until today when I brought it up to 60 and still have nothing happening. OG was and still is 1.072. Wort still smells and tastes fine. I'm at a loss as to what to do. Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.

 

[bcfzx2]

I could be wrong but the lagers I have done recommended that you let fermentation start before bringing it down to lager temps.

 

[Jdaught]

Ya, that's what I've read in some places and then you go somewhere else and it says to pitch at fermenting temps. Last time I did this recipe I pitched straight from the smack pack of W2308 at ferm temp and had no problems, maybe a little slow to start but it did start and attenuated out well. Idk what is going on with it this time. So now I'm trying to bring temp up to get something started then drop back down. It's been about 12 hours at 60 degrees now and I'm still not seeing anything. I don't think I should have to bring a lager yeast up to room temp to get something started. Should I? Figured 60 would be plenty. Actually don't see why 50 isn't working. I'm at a loss.

 

[SwampassJ]

If your starter failed to ferment a small volume of beer then you shouldn't be surprised it failed to work on 10 gallons. Did the pack swell at all prepitch? What size starter? What was the date? Right now just bring the temperature up, it's been several days but it's worth it to try and save the batch. Or get some more yeast and start a starter and when it's actively going pitch it into the yeast.

I've never had more than 48 hours to get started at 48degrees but I do large, multi stage starters to get up to the pitching rates that Mrmalty suggests.

 

[Begin2Brew]

How do you know fermentation has not started? Have you taken gravity readings?

I expect Revvy to be along anytime now......

 

[TrainSafe]

Just out of curiosity, how big of a starter did you make?

 

[SwampassJ]

How do you know fermentation has not started? Have you taken gravity readings?

I expect Revvy to be along anytime now......

Because he's still at 1.072

OG was and still is 1.072. Wort still smells and tastes fine. I'm at a loss as to what to do. Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Begin2Brew]

Because he's still at 1.072

Sorry, missed that.

What was the date on the vials? What "methods" went wrong? Starter?

 

[wonderbread23]

When you repitched, you should have built a BIG starter with the viles before pitching. Ideally for that much lager at that volume you would have pitched 990 billion cells. Fresh viles contain about 100 billion cells.

 

[Jdaught]

Starter size was 1 gallon, but it didn't do what it was suppose to do. The smackpack didn't swell at all which kind of worried me. Failed to pay attention to the date. Believe me, I'll be paying more attention to the condition of my yeast and be building huge starters from now on. I'm just trying to figure out how to save the batch at this point. It's been almost a week now with no fermentation, so my fears of losing it are greatly increasing. As long as it still smells and tastes ok it's still good, right?

 

[Jdaught]

So should I bring the temp up until it starts then drop it back down? How high should I bring the temp up? How fast should it be brought back down once started?

 

[statseeker]

Find a place that carries dry lager yeast. Saf-lager S-23. That would be my main suggestion if nothing else works.

 

[Jdaught]

If bringing the temp up doesn't get something started then that's probably my next step. Thanks

 

[SwampassJ]

If bringing the temp up doesn't get something started then that's probably my next step. Thanks

Either that or if you have any washed yeast in the fridge use that. A saved batch with the wrong yeast is better than a lost batch with the correct yeast.

 

[Jdaught]

I don't have any other yeast on hand. But will be at least keeping some dry yeast on hand just in case of emergency like this. I think I'm gonna be alright. The temp has come up to 63 and I'm now getting a Krausen starting to form. Now I just gotta get it back down to 50 without shocking the yeast and going through this again. How long should I wait before cooling back to ferm temp?

 

[tabni]

Relax, Don't Worry, Grab a beer... I did my first lager a few weeks ago and I used Bavarian Wheat Lager Yeast. It took 12 days for it to start fermentation. Lager yeast takes longer to ferment, it's not as aggressive as ale, so just relax and have a homebrew!

 

[Jdaught]

Thanks and I am. Looks like the temp rise saved the day. Nice clean Krausen on top now and temp headed back to 50. I've done lagers before and never had to wait this long. This one really had me worried, 6 days, off and runnin on the 7th. Now I'll just be waiting for 1.034 for the d-rest then transfer to secondary and drop to 34 and wait. Hopefully be drinking it by March. Thanks for all the input from everyone. This was my first post on homebrewtalk.

 

[SwampassJ]

Relax, Don't Worry, Grab a beer... I did my first lager a few weeks ago and I used Bavarian Wheat Lager Yeast. It took 12 days for it to start fermentation. Lager yeast takes longer to ferment, it's not as aggressive as ale, so just relax and have a homebrew!

12 days? They should be nearing or at final gravity in 12 days even at 50 degrees.