help needed, infected?....mold...?

[soggydog]

I have made lots of batches in the same gear over the last few years. They've all been fine til this spring, then this started showing up. About 4-5 batches ago i started seeing this in the secondary.

I was cleanign the fermenters with one step for the whole time up til this batch. The local HB store guy recommended using Star San to clean the fermenters. Thats what I used for this batch. I have also tried dumping boiling water into his this carboy. Looking for some guidance here....is it mold?....infection?....replace the carboy?.....what...

Thanks in advance guys.:rockin:

 

[rod]

does this show up on filling(maybe just starsan bubbles?) or after a few days in the secondary?
i would say don't pour boiling water in a glass carboy unless you want to replace it - the thermal shock will crack it - believe me - i have lost 2 before i realized the problem.
glass is the easiest material to sanitize so as long as you leave the starsan in for the correct contact time and the right strength nothing should survive.
what type of beer is it - when i make a chocolate stout using cocao powder i get a film on the top like yours from the oil - i just rack from underneath it

 

[soggydog]

Not star san bubbles since this is the first time i used it and this has been happening for a few batches thus far.

This is the 4-5 time it has happened so beer type not an issue i'm thinking. Its a kiwi golden though if you're interested. its not cracked or anything, yes boiling water will crack glass if its cold but i primed it so it was semi warm....either way it clearly didn't help. There is not a "prescribed time" on my bottle of star san, so share what you know on that note. I was mosdef hoping the star san was gonna wipe this out.

My next batch is an amber and I am going straight from primary to keg if I can't find a solution.

 

[FlyingHorse]

How does the beer taste?

And at what point in the secondary did you take this pic?

If the beer's been OK, and this is just after you racked, it's probably just those freaky StarSan bubbles. Otherwise, it looks ugly.

BTW, you can't use "Star San to clean the fermenters". StarSan is a sanitizer...you need to clean with something else (like OxiClean) first.

 

[soggydog]

K Bike to clarify, i should not use star san to clean the carboy/fermenter.....what should i use? oxiclean? .... the star san suggestion came from the local HB store guy....not saying i put much stock in his help...he didn't seem sure.

To reiterate, I don't think its star san bubbles as i was getting this before I started using star san...back when i used one step...also I had several successful batches with no weird bubbles using one step before this started.

As far as flavor, it seems to add some skunkiness and is killing clarity...., i have been trying to siphon it all into the keg leaving the top layer behind.

 

[david_the_greek]

I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE!!! ...... wait we're both somehow dumb or messing up
I had this develop on me twice, once in a starter that I left for too long. The other, I had the white just initially developing in a secondary after it had been there for a few weeks. I racked under it and thus far (haven't had a chance to tap the keg yet) it has tasted fine. I am not sure what exactly it is, but I do think its an infection of some sorts. I thought I thoroughly sanitized my equipment, but the time when it occurred in the secondary may have been due to my many samplings or I mean hydrometer testings. Have not had this problem develop any other times.

 

[soggydog]

dave, what are you sanitizing with?

 

[Reidman]

If this only seems to occur in secondary I would say your racking equipment isn't getting sanitized good enough and that might be were the infection lies.

 

[soggydog]

I will be doing another thorough cleaning of all the involved parts.....should i being using somethign besides One Step or Star San?

 

[TheJadedDog]

I would start by replacing all your racking equipment and tubing (I replace my tubing frequently).

As for cleaning, clean with Oxyclean or PBW, then sanitize with Star San or Iodophor.

 

[ajf]

Just a really wild guess.
One Step, OxiClean, and PBW are all similar. They work well as cleaners in a relatively short time, and require a thorough rinsing to get rid of any residue.
Leave them soaking for too long (like more than a day), and the residue is even more difficult to get rid of.
Could you be seeing the result of excessive soaking in one of these cleaners?

I would give multiple rinses to the carboy with hot water, with a good scrubbing using a carboy brush with each rinse.

I would also use bleach to clean the carboy (about 2 fl oz or 3 tbsp per 5 gallons water). It works as well as the others, and is much cheaper. Don't leave it soaking for more than about 12 hours, and rinse very thoroughly after draining.

If you switch to bleach, and you lose the nasty looking bubbles, but you beer tastes of bandaids instead, then you can be fairly sure that you are not rinsing enough after cleaning.

Paying attention to your racking equipment as was suggested before is also an excellent idea, but make sure you rinse everything really well after cleaning and before sanitizing.

-a.

 

[adx]

I saw a reference to a harmless mold from certain areas that shows as a thin white film. They recommenced just siphoning out from under it. I'm not sure where I read it from, but if I come across it again I'll post the reference.

I would be freaked out if I saw that also though.

 

[soggydog]

Thx for the help guys. I'll siphon under this stuff for now. I'll replace tubing and I guess auto-siphon too. Thinking replacing my cleanign brush would be good too. I'll just triple my cleanign efforts all together. I'll let you know what happens.

 

[jb444]

you could try sanitising with two different types of sanitiser e.g. one chlorine based and one sulphur dioxide based - some bugs are resistant to certain methods of sterilisation.

 

[tbulger]

Got sent here from another thread. I got the same stuff too! I think i got mine from a hop bag (maybe). THe good part is i get to buy more stuff this week
(racking canes, siphon tubing...etc). How do brews with this infection taste? i was debating whether or not to rack into a keg or just the bottles ( as to not infect the keg).

BTW it was a ipa with 5 ounces of hops i would hate to have to go to waste.

 

[BierMuncher]

Call me old fashioned, I've done everyone of my batches with water/bleach mix and a hot rinse.

No issues yet.

 

[GjG]

Call me old fashioned, I've done everyone of my batches with water/bleach mix and a hot rinse.

No issues yet.

The one time I used starsan I had an infection. Went back to bleach and multiple rinsings and no problems to report.

 

[sudbuster]

I have made lots of batches in the same gear over the last few years. They've all been fine til this spring, then this started showing up. About 4-5 batches ago i started seeing this in the secondary.



I was cleanign the fermenters with one step for the whole time up til this batch. The local HB store guy recommended using Star San to clean the fermenters. Thats what I used for this batch. I have also tried dumping boiling water into his this carboy. Looking for some guidance here....is it mold?....infection?....replace the carboy?.....what...

Thanks in advance guys.:rockin:

DUDE! wow! that is soooo cool. Your photo i mean, not the infection.

Hard to tell from just a photo, but it looks like it may be an acedic acid bacteria.
It is usually picked up from aeration. The bug is particularly bad in a primary. You don't have that problem, so your sanitation there was good. the usual place to pick one of these up is at racking to secondary. They are aerobic, so racking to secondary gives o2 for respiration, while the yeast are few in number and can't use it up to help control the little critters.

Transfer tubing should be brushed and boiled 20 min. or just replace. Look for beerstone deposites in racking canes, etc. absotutely no splashing at racking. Self starting (pump) racking canes are the hotel Capri for these guys. Try to use a closed syphon method between carboys using hoods and sterile air filters.

looks like she's a goner. Sorry! The infection is throughout the beer, not just the surface. The secondary, should be filled to the neck to remove as much air as possible from the carboy.

Cheers......

 

[rohanski]

I have had this a number of times in the secondary (plastic bucket). I live is South Texas where the humidity is high and the molds are plenty so I always assumed it was airborne. At any rate the first time I saw it I thought the beer was crap but it never has had any off tastes because of it. I have recently switched to all glass because of other infections, and the first five batches are good so far. I'm keeping my fingers crossed and the equipment clean.

 

[Cookiebaggs]

Call me old fashioned, I've done everyone of my batches with water/bleach mix and a hot rinse.

No issues yet.

10 plus years here with water/bleach and hot rinse. I've never had any contamination issues either.

 

[Crazytwoknobs]

Looks like soap residue. Palmolive FTL.


Seriously though, I think it could be lime from the water... salts mixing with sanitizer residue....

Here's a weird thought:

If your water comes from one of the great lakes, the problem could be that chemical that all the zebra mussels are tossing into the water that the water treatment centers can't get out.... That's a wild guess though.

 

[Green Tarp]

Any update on this batch from the OP? Did you bottle it? If so how did it taste? I have this same thing in a batch of nutbrown atm.. tho not as bad. There are only a few bubbles on the sides but they look a lot like this. They appeared on the 6 day in the secondary and unfortutately this was the first batch that I didnt boil and cool enough water to completely fill into the neck.. its about an inch from being in the neck but maybe far enough to mess things up. I sanitized a wine thief and took a sample.. no bad tastes or anything as of yet.

 

[z987k]

Also have this on my IPA, which seems to be a common thread. Need to find out what it is. Are the hops introducing it when dryhopping?

 

[bobjenkins79]

I have this same crap growing in 2 of my carboys right now. I clean everything w/ bleach & hot water, and have never had a problem before. I think it's from racking/aerating the beer. You couple that w/ the huge amount of headspace, and you're screwed.

But what's the alternative? do you dilute your beer by adding water up to the neck of the carboy? If you could get it to ferment a little after going into 2ndary, I guess the blanket of co2 would protect the beer, but how would you do that?

 

[z987k]

Just tasted the IPA that had this, and no, it's getting thrown out. It doesn't taste that bad but the smell is unbearable. Really sour smelling.

And after reading a bunch of threads on this, I'm convinced it was the hops. How to you sanitize hops for dryhopping?

 

[Castawayales]

I also have been wrestling with this issue. Off and on for the last year I have seen it. Most of the time harmless, once in a while affects flavor.

I never see it in the primary which tells me it is getting in at racking. My last batch I filled sanitized carboy with CO2 and racked under pressure. No issue.

I need to try it a couple of more times to verify, but as earlier threads have stated, it's probably an aerobic mold mixing in when the beer is racked. Hopefully filling a clean sanitized carboy with CO2 will keep the devils at bay.

I did use brand new racking equipment 1 time and still got it, so I also think the stuff is getting into the carboy from ambient air. The off tasting batches were probably a companion bacteria that got enough oxygen to kick in also.

Did I mention mold grows freely in my basement? Sometimes on water if the conditions are right.

Barry

 

[Grimsawyer]

Ok. So to recap. It's airborn as well as tough to get rid of and if your autosiphon is infected that's the end of your happy toy?