Help me make the reddest beer that was ever red

[emjay]

I've had hibiscus beers. They've been intensely PINK, not red. And I don't just mean a diluted red that will look more red in a greater concentration.

 

[emjay]

I've been thinking about orange myself, and had been thinking of blending Munich with pilsener to get a golden base to which I would add roasted barley. I'm curious about the color effects of the rye, and also whether you have any idea what the grist is for the really red Flanders red.

I don't off-hand. Maybe I can find it...

I still insist you can achieve a pretty damn red beer with just malt and an extended boil. Would be way more awesome than what pretty much just amounts to adding a natural dye, too. In that case, you might as well just pull out all the stops...

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cochineal#Dye

 

[Bradinator]

I've had hibiscus beers. They've been intensely PINK, not red. And I don't just mean a diluted red that will look more red in a greater concentration.

I am thinking that if I brew a very light beer and try to change its colour with a herb or fruit it will end up pink unless its heavily diluted. So what I am thinking now is to build a recipe that would lead to a red coloured ale using some of the specialty malts mentioned above, then dry hopping with a hibiscus and safflower mixture to intensify it.

 

[commonsenseman]

I'm convinced that Raspberries would work great. Of course, if you don't want fruit in your beer it could pose a problem.

Here's a picture of a beautiful Raspberry Mead (Melomel):

 

[teucer]

Orange is pretty easy. A ton of Vienna with an extended boil should really help. The most vividly orange beers tend to be saisons.

Yeah, I'd been thinking light Munich with a bit of Pils thrown in, but Vienna would be about the same effect. But that's partly because I wanted to darken it up a bit with roast barley, and that meant a bit of a yellow ingredient; an extended boil would probably do better.

 

[teucer]

My 11/11/11 Gun Stock ale turned out pretty red. The pic below is from brew day. Since then, it has dropped completely clear and is a gorgeous deep garnet red (and has much less brown than is shown in the hydrometer sample). Is that the shade of red you're going for?

Whether the OP is or not, your description sounds intriguing and I'd love to hear what went into it.

(In case you can't tell, color beyond degrees Lovibond is something I've recentishly become interested in exploring myself and am mostly not so clueful about.)

 

[GuldTuborg]

Here's the recipe we all followed:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f74/11-11-11-gun-stock-ale-old-ale-official-recipe-197241/

The only difference was I used blackstrap molasses instead of treacle. I also used Fawcett amber malt, which is darker than other ambers. I didn't get to bottle in time to take part in the swap, which is a shame, but I'm going to keep some of this around for the next time a swap is organized. The latest sample I took tasted so good, I really have my hopes high. If I get around to bottling soon, I'll try to remember to take a picture and post it back here.

 

[DannPM]

Munich Malt makes beer red.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f71/belgian-red-ale-278458/

 

[ndoe22]

In a 5 gallon batch 8oz c120 and 8 oz Belgium specialB

 

[Bradinator]

Here's the recipe we all followed:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f74/11-11-11-gun-stock-ale-old-ale-official-recipe-197241/

The only difference was I used blackstrap molasses instead of treacle. I also used Fawcett amber malt, which is darker than other ambers. I didn't get to bottle in time to take part in the swap, which is a shame, but I'm going to keep some of this around for the next time a swap is organized. The latest sample I took tasted so good, I really have my hopes high. If I get around to bottling soon, I'll try to remember to take a picture and post it back here.

Was it the molasses/treacle that turned it red?

 

[Bradinator]

Munich Malt makes beer red.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f71/belgian-red-ale-278458/

That is a very red beer. I have been trying to avoid buying any 'primary' malt for my brews because I have an immense amount of Pilsner, Pale Ale and 2-Row on hand... Though I could get a few pounds of Munich just for this batch...

I'm convinced that Raspberries would work great. Of course, if you don't want fruit in your beer it could pose a problem.

Here's a picture of a beautiful Raspberry Mead (Melomel):

Gorgeous!. I thought about the fruit a bit, but I want this to be an very hoppy IPA and I don't think fruit will work well.

 

[Bradinator]

So here is my initial recipe

Munich Malt 51%
Pilsner Malt 26%
Carared 6.5%
Crystal 120L 6.5%
Roasted Barely 3% (needed?)

1oz Warrior @ 60
0.5oz Cascade @ 45
0.5oz Cascade @ 30
0.5oz Amarillo @ 20
0.5oz Amarillo @ 5

Dry Hop for 14 days with 1oz Hibiscus (more?), 1oz Safflower

Thoughts?

 

[ZamaMan]

This may not be the reddest beer ever but arrogant bastard has a great rich dark red that I find beautiful along with tasting awesome. Jamils near perfect clone was with special B. I just kegged it and the color and flavor is dead on.

 

[DannPM]

So here is my initial recipe

Munich Malt 51%
Pilsner Malt 26%
Carared 6.5%
Crystal 120L 6.5%
Roasted Barely 3% (needed?)

1oz Warrior @ 60
0.5oz Cascade @ 45
0.5oz Cascade @ 30
0.5oz Amarillo @ 20
0.5oz Amarillo @ 5

Dry Hop for 14 days with 1oz Hibiscus (more?), 1oz Safflower

Thoughts?

What is the srm of this? If it is too dark I've be afraid of it taking away from the brightness of the kind of red you get. That is pure speculation on my part though.

 

[Bradinator]

What is the srm of this? If it is too dark I've be afraid of it taking away from the brightness of the kind of red you get. That is pure speculation on my part though.

According to beersmith 17.8.

If I drop the Roasted Barely, its 12.4

 

[DannPM]

Personally I'd do that then, I'd drop the roasted barley and half the c120, that's a lot of c120 imo.

Adding a touch of melanoidan malt, maybe 4% and bump the cara red up with whatever percentage is leftover (2%?). The mel malt makes a beer red as well (I'm on my phone or I'd do the math, can't go back on the app)

 

[urbanmyth]

If you can afford it, saffron added with the hibiscus and safflower would probably do a hell of a lot color-wise. I have no idea on the flavor of saffron, never had it, least of all in beer. But I do know it is the world's most expensive spice by weight. So...I dunno if price is a limiting factor.

 

[Bradinator]

Price is not a limiting factor, just availability. If I can buy it locally I will, if I need to order it I won't be getting it. Also not too worried about any flavour the spice/herbs add because of the amount of hops being used should mask it.

Munich Malt 60%
Pilsner Malt 22%
Carared 7%
Melanoiden 7%
Crystal 120L 4%

1oz Warrior @ 60
0.5oz Cascade @ 45
0.5oz Cascade @ 30
0.5oz Amarillo @ 20
0.5oz Amarillo @ 5

 

[DannPM]

Dude that looks great IMO. I think you will have one hell of a red beer from that!

Edit: the more I look at that the stronger that recipes looks towards making a great malty hoppy red ale. Strong work man!

 

[urbanmyth]

I am very interested in the end result! Please post some pictures during and after brewing.

 

[Boy]

Forgot one other thing I found. I use beercalculus.com for my recipes. I noticed that on their SRM scales a recipe for 5 gallons at an SRM of 13 comes out fairly red with almost no brown. But on 10 gallons 13 SRM will come out more orange and 15 will be more brown. Also if you add adjuncts like hibiscus or raspberries make sure to do a thorough a cold crash. If it's cloudy it will darken up and you will lose the red. My first attempt was definitely red but was so cloudy that it gave it a weird color that wasn't brown so much as grey-ish red?

 

[emjay]

The SRM scale is really one-dimensional though. For instance, you could be in the golden range of the SRM scale, but have a beer that LOOKS brown (or blue, for that matter!). IMO, the vivid orange part of the scale is probably best to shoot for if you want a visually similar vivid red beer. I definitely wouldn't go any higher.

 

[Boy]

I agree and have noticed this. Just trying to say that when I employed the tricks I've mentioned in this thread I noticed that I needed to scale the recipes to differently to get the same coloring.

 

[Bradinator]

Awesome. Well I am going to brew this next weekend.

I am still thinking I will dry hop with various red herbs, most likely hibiscus and safflower and possibly saffron if I can find it, but that won't be for a couple weeks after the brew date.

I will keep everyone updated

 

[jonpecan]

I didn't read all (ok, just about none) of the replies, but my profile pic is beer the result of beets. On my phone now, but feel free to let me know if you'd like more details

 

[paulster2626]

I didn't read all (ok, just about none) of the replies, but my profile pic is beer the result of beets. On my phone now, but feel free to let me know if you'd like more details

I would like more details. I need to perfect a nice beet recipe by the start of next summer.

 

[VanHolton]

Check out that link posted by maxam on the first page of this thread. I used beets the same way as the guy in post #18 of that thread and had great results! VERY red indeed! You blend two peeled, raw beets with (i think) 2 cups of water and strain it. The resulting liquid is blood red and you add it to the boil at 10 min. That way you can maintain clarity quite well. I have a couple pics of mine in my profile, I believe. FWIW, I've tried roasted barley and melanoidin too, but never got away from shades of orange or brown until I tried beets.

 

[emjay]

What flavor did the beets impart?

IMO, that's not much different than resorting to food coloring, which he doesn't want to do. Being able to do it without any odd ingredients would just be a million times more awesome.

If you can get a vivid orange, you're already going in the right direction. A beet red beer is not likely, but it's actually possible, even sticking to the Reinheitsgebot, to come up with a beer indistinguishable from a bright red wine. This is just an extreme example though... I'm not one to ever care about the German purity law.

Melanoidins and sparing use of dark malts are definitely going to be important, and I'm pretty sure that an extended boil is pretty much necessary to bring out the best red possible.

Heck, one could experiment with various grain bills on a very small scale before committing to a large scale batch. Using a cooler, a bunch of smaller containers, and some small grain or hop bags, you should actually be able to mash MANY different grists simultaneously.

 

[emjay]

Also... for a roasted malt, I would consider using chocolate rye malt. I don't know what it is about rye, but rye beers (such as a RyePA) definitely tend to have a noticeably reddish hue.

 

[Bradinator]

Check out that link posted by maxam on the first page of this thread. I used beets the same way as the guy in post #18 of that thread and had great results! VERY red indeed! You blend two peeled, raw beets with (i think) 2 cups of water and strain it. The resulting liquid is blood red and you add it to the boil at 10 min. That way you can maintain clarity quite well. I have a couple pics of mine in my profile, I believe. FWIW, I've tried roasted barley and melanoidin too, but never got away from shades of orange or brown until I tried beets.

Intriguing. Do you think a batch made with a low DRM beer (say from a pure Pils or 2-Rom) mixed with a decent amount of beet could give the intense red I am looking for?

How did it affect the flavour? I am all for using herbs and misc in my beer... Unless it makes it taste like farts.