Help making a restaurant "house ale"

[BeirKaiser]

Hello and thank you to all that are reading and reply, I always appreciate the homebrew community's knowledge.

Here are some of the things I would love a brewer's perspective on and any non brewer's opinions:

The scenario: I will be taking over a kitchen at a restaurant from scratch, however they do have a functioning bar that's running now. I wanted to brew two house ales for the place. (Yes I looked up all my state laws). I want one to be the absolute standard go to beer that is rounded for everyone to enjoy. The second I will mostly be using for cooking. Any suggestions? I'm thinking of doing an IPA stand and a stout because I can cook with both. Don't want to use Guinness like everyone else. I intend on bottling and kegging.

Problems:
-I can't get super crafty because it's a run of the mill blue collar Budweiser, coors light, labatt kind of place at the moment
-the house beers, not my seasonals, have two be fairly cheap to make and not too complex so I can keep up with volume
-I'm thinking IPA but regardless, I'm torn between making it clear/ filtered or hazy/unfiltered (I don't know how many ignorant people will think it's gone bad if it's hazy)

Please, any suggestions would be helpful, I want it to be popular but still unique. Thank you guys!

 

[ChelisHubby]

Ipa,s are not cheap, blondes and such are. Maybe a strong Pale ale. but any BITTER Juicy IPA is money! Wheats and creams can be cheap also and ambers.!

 

[NothingRhymesWithCurtiss]

I brew 1bbl batches a few times a month at a restaurant that sits in a village with a population of 406 people. Not beer snobs. Just folks that want good food and good beer. For us, Pale Ales, Cream Ales, and Blondes move the fastest. We've tried Saisons, ESBs, Imperial Stouts, Coffee Porters... but the "lighter" beers are what people want.

I would stay away from hazy beers because your typical Bud Light drinker is going to think the beer is bad. We throw in Whirlfloc during the last 15 minutes of the boil, leave about 5 gallons of trub in the kettle when transferring/chilling, and crash our beer down to 32° F before we carb it. In addition, most kegs sit in our cold room for 5 or so days before we serve them, which seems to help with clarity.

I say go with your gut and brew a pale ale and a stout. Don't do anything "too" hoppy for the pale ale, or anything too boozy for the stout, and see how people like it. You can tweak your recipes with each batch based on feedback, and if either batch isn't well received, you can always do a test batch of another style.

Best of luck!

 

[RevKev]

You can cook with any beer, but the typical drinkers would like cream ales, blonde ales or any type of lager. Hell try and make a nice vienna. Thats my recommendation. And if you do a stout try a milk stout, they are much less polarizing than traditional American stouts and not everyone likes a Guinness.

But.... If you want to go dark I would suggest try and do a rye or traditional brown ale, a brown ale will appeal to those who appreciate darker styles but is a lead from Amber ale drinker into maltier beer. Rohrbachs is a local Western NY Brew House that their best beers are a DIPA (canned and distributed don't do this for BL drinkers) and a scotch ale which is also not a bad idea.

Do a pale and sure... You'll make great food but you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink an IPA.

 

[MaryB]

Not sure of exact category but BMC drinkers love it... English bitter? Strong bitter? it has a sweet malt backbone, is around 6% ABV and is good with many types of food.

11 gallon batch

16 pounds Golden Promise
3 1/2 pounds Victory
.75(can lower to 1/2 for less roasted flavor)

7.5 gallon smash in, 8 gallon sparge(adjust for your losses!)

Mash in at 153 for 60 minutes

60 minute boil

2 oz Perle for 60 min
2 oz Hallertau for 5 min

Chill wort to pitching and pitch 2 packets of Nottingham Ale

Friend just came over and got a gallon!

 

[Seattle2k]

Blonde, Pale Ale, Kolsch, for your BMC drinkers.

 

[Braufessor]

I agree with some of the others - blonde, Pale Ale or Kolsch are probably your "go to" beers for a basic drinker. IPA's get expensive, and probably will not appeal to a segment in terms of a "house ale." Lagers are nice - but turn around time goes up with those. Even a kolsch can be slower to turn around. I would lean toward a blonde ale or pale ale of some sort. about 4.5% -5% ABV. or so. Something like cascade/centennial hops which are easy to get and relatively cheap.

Question - how are you brewing this? Does this place have a large brew system? Are you contract brewing it through another brewery?

 

[ericbw]

A blonde or anything too light is too much like Bud, etc. And a pale or IPA might be too strong - if they're not already drinking Sierra Nevada, then they must not like that style. But I would do an Irish Red ale - mild enough, but also exotic enough to get some interest.

Does the bar have any history or interesting background?

What's the food you'll be making?

 

[BeirKaiser]

Thank you all for the help!

Answering some of the questions:
-I'm in Buffalo NY
-Historically the building is of no significance but there is the Ellicott creek that runs through it and an old garrison
-it's a third generation business, the kitchen closed down once my girlfriend's father died but the bar stayed open. I will be doing the brewing myself, whatever equipment I need. I plan on selling bottles and making kegs for the tap but it will not even be on a microbrew scale, more of a brew pub scale
-the two local brewers we carry are Flying Bison, (as suggested) they make a nice Vienna and Irish red. And Big Ditch, who makes a great Rye Brown ale
-food served: beef on wick, wings, Ruebens, bar food with a chalkboard menu with whatever I want, more upper scale specials

I might stay away from the IPA because of the hop bill but a nice amber is starting to sounds right.

This is so much harder because I know what my friends and I like but it's going to be difficult to market to a populous. As mentioned I will have to tweet it. Might make several one gallon batches and have a tasting day.

 

[BeirKaiser]

Beers we have on tap:
Labatt blue
Colors light
Budweiser
Molsen Canadian

Bottles/can:
Spaten
Seirra Nevada Pale ale
Flying bison Irish red
Big Ditch Hayburner IPA and Excavator Brown rye
Shinerbock
Southern tier 2x and Matt and phin
Etc main stream stuff line sam Adams

That's what I'm going into, none of which was my choice, I'm hoping to get more on tap once business picks up

 

[RevKev]

I also am in Buffalo been here 5 years for school now studying for PhD at UB also. Where about is this restaurant? I know you said Ellicott Creek so are we in proximity to Niagara Falls Bvld

Highly agreed you should stay away from IPA, but if you can make a founders all day clone that would go over extremely well. If you tell me the town I could help narrow in on the taste, I work as a cicerone in williamsville

 

[BeirKaiser]

Actually in williamsville too! So you know the type of people I'm catering to.

Thank you, something like the All Day would be perfect. An abv of about 4-5% and an IBU between 30-60

 

[Kent88]

For the "primary" house ale, cream ale. Very approachable to people who drink mass produced light beer but can be great when done right. Ever been to Wisconsin and tried Spotted Cow? That stuff is great, and it seems like lots of people are drinking it.

Was a little confused by what you are after for a second beer. You said you want to cook with it, but then you mentioned something about seasonal beers. Seasonal offerings could be interesting. Having small batches of your own nano-brewed Stout or Irish Red for St. Patrick's Day, Pre-Prohibition style lager for Independence Day, Marzen around Oktoberfest, Pumpkin for Halloween, and/or Barleywine on New Years, could work in your favor.

For cooking I think that Bock and Stout are pretty useful. Bock could be used to make some nice bread and/or rolls for sandwiches. I've heard of Stout bread and stout cookies, and I just tried making some chocolate cake with Stout that turned out decent. I'm not big on hoppy things, so I don't know what you'd cook/bake using IPA.

Edit: I think the seasonals you mentioned are other breweries seasonal craft beers that you get. Seems obvious now, my bad.

 

[Aristoi]

I agree with what others have said. I always keep a house ale on tap for BMC drinkers and it varies from blonde, kolsch, american or english pale ale, and american wheat (clear). You cant go wrong with anything out of Jamil's classic styles book for those styles. If the Sierra Nevada sells well then you can target that profile, if not, then something along the lines of 20-30 IBU. Centennial blonde on here is good, another lighter/easy drinking pale ale for summer i like when i can find it is Summit EPA, maybe there is a decent clone recipe out there. It tastes less hop forward than SN (38IBU) even though their site says its 49IBU i would have thought it was low 30's. Good luck!

 

[RevKev]

Williamsville is an interesting place, you get deep pockets and those with hardly a penny to spare. I definitely think session ipa or even brooklyn summer ale is solid.

I'll try to think a little more deeply but once you get up and running definitely let me know when you start brewing would love to taste and buy a pint! I'll let you know what some of my most successful samplings were from my department

 

[madscientist451]

Beers we have on tap:
Labatt blue
Colors light
Budweiser
Molsen Canadian

Bottles/can:
Spaten
Seirra Nevada Pale ale
Flying bison Irish red
Big Ditch Hayburner IPA and Excavator Brown rye
Shinerbock
Southern tier 2x and Matt and phin
Etc main stream stuff line sam Adams

That's what I'm going into, none of which was my choice, I'm hoping to get more on tap once business picks up

Your bottle/tap list is kind of crappy, but you can use the sales volume from that list to gauge what the current customers like and want to buy.
I'd start off brewing what you think will sell and then use customer feedback to determine what direction you should go.
Maybe your customers would drink a chocolate stout or a grapefruit IPA, you won't know until you try.
Another idea is make clones of established, popular beers. You can tweak them this way or that to make your own version. Two I would suggest: Mirror Pond pale Ale and Uinta Wyld APA

 

[brick_haus]

Prelude:
I keep 4 beers on tap at home. 3 of them I really like myself and one that I don't drink much but because of family/friends love for it, I can hardly keep up supply.
Reply:
If it were my restaurant, I would brew Edworts Pale Ale (see HBT recipe database) as one of the haus ales. Its loved by All, simple ingredients, EASY AND FAST to brew and cost is low.

 

[Bilsch]

The average bitterness of the 4 beers you already have on tap is about 12ibu. For people used to drinking Bud with a whopping 7ibu, jumping to a pale ale with 30 might/would be a shock to the palate.

 

[BeirKaiser]

Thank you brick_haus

Perfect! Really simple and sometimes simple is best. I'm sure it sells well, that is ideal for the kind of people I will be dealing with. A nice gateway to craft beers and hopefully

To answer some people questions. On tap I would like (only focusing on the first two as they are the most challenging):
1) Go to name sake house beer (Probably a pale ale or amber
2) stout for cooking (marinate, beer batter, stews, BBQ sauce, chili, etc) everyone uses Guinness
Down the line and if I have the time/room/equipment
3) Seasonals/holidays
4) random batches of varying styles

Edit:
Thank you Bilsch, it's going to be a challenge when the current customers are not hop seekers but I also want to draw a new crowd in eventually

 

[abrew2u]

Subbed

 

[mirthfuldragon]

I would think you want something interesting but approachable. I would look to an amber, a hefeweizen, or (my choice) a wheat beer or pale wheat beer.

Here's my story: family party, no craft beer drinkers or home brewers, went through two cases of my Gumbalhead-esque pale wheat while they were sitting in a cooler next to Summer Shandy, Miller High Life, and Miller Light . (all of which are the preference of the group - none of them homebrewers or beer snobs). These include my dad (a BMC drinker) and my mother-in-law (who rarely drinks beer but loved it enough to kill two bottles and get a bit tipsy).

Oh, and do free 1oz tasters, like Olive Garden does for wine. Your profit margins on homebrew are probably double or triple your other offerings. A $3 house draft against a $5 commercial bottle should do pretty well, and put more money in your pocket.

 

[ericbw]

I would think you want something interesting but approachable. I would look to an amber, a hefeweizen, or (my choice) a wheat beer or pale wheat beer.

Here's my story: family party, no craft beer drinkers or home brewers, went through two cases of my Gumbalhead-esque pale wheat while they were sitting in a cooler next to Summer Shandy, Miller High Life, and Miller Light . (all of which are the preference of the group - none of them homebrewers or beer snobs). These include my dad (a BMC drinker) and my mother-in-law (who rarely drinks beer but loved it enough to kill two bottles and get a bit tipsy).

Oh, and do free 1oz tasters, like Olive Garden does for wine. Your profit margins on homebrew are probably double or triple your other offerings. A $3 house draft against a $5 commercial bottle should do pretty well, and put more money in your pocket.

That's especially true if you make it a special deal - burger and a beer for $10. But it has to be good food-friendly beer.

 

[deere322]

IPA's are a dime a dozen.
How about a nice English Dark Mild...

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Sounds like a cool idea - My suggestion would be a wheat beer of some sort. I prefer hefeweizens but an American wheat might be a great choice in this context; something mid-way between light and dark that can be refreshing and still have good body and flavor.

If you don't mind, I'd also suggest checking with your insurance agent to see if there are any potential exposures involved. There probably aren't, but if there are, a simple endorsement or two should keep you in good shape.

 

[BeirKaiser]

I'd love to do a kölsch or hefe but every part of me in good conscious could never make them clear. (As discussed earlier). But an American wheat isn't a bad idea. I'm think of sticking to an American style to go along with the "average hard working American" then the owner wants to project.

Hahaha yes, thought of doing like a happy meal special. House Burger and house beer and still make a decent profit.

Loving all the idea! If I can't use them for the house go-to, they can definitely be part of my rotating stock

 

[TasunkaWitko]

American wheat, American yeast, American hops....

One final suggestion: as I am sure you know (and as your thread indicates), nothing draws people in like the local terrior. It might be worth it so see how the beer made from the local spring or artesian well water (no adjustments) tastes. Also, I am sure that there are some hop varieties that are historically found in the region; perhaps they might also be a good choice.

 

[BeirKaiser]

American wheat, American yeast, American hops....



One final suggestion: as I am sure you know (and as your thread indicates), nothing draws people in like the local terrior. It might be worth it so see how the beer made from the local spring or artesian well water (no adjustments) tastes. Also, I am sure that there are some hop varieties that are historically found in the region; perhaps they might also be a good choice.

Excellent idea!

I once did a honey brown with my ex's well water in the finger lakes and it gave it a great taste.

It works perfectly with tying it in with the restaurant, buffalo people love the local stuff and it would be great to rope it all in with the same theme

 

[RevKev]

There are local maltsters and hop growers in middle NY, not sure if you ever had any of Rooster Fish Brewings beers. They are a grain to glass 100% NYS brewery. That could sink in well with Williamsville people sometimes refuse to try beer demos bc they are from West coast or even Pennsylvania...