Help I have flat beer

[Dee74]

So I primed and bottle conditioned my beer for about a month. Some bottles are really good beer with good carbonation and others, not so good and almost flat. Every bottle gives that whish sound and the release of gas when opened so I assume the caps were on good, but as I said some do not have much carbonation. I conditioned the bottles in temps that ranged from 70-80 degrees. This is my very first batch. How can I learn from this and keep this from happening again?

 

[Brownalemikie]

So I primed and bottle conditioned my beer for about a month. Some bottles are really good beer with good carbonation and others, not so good and almost flat. Every bottle gives that whish sound and the release of gas when opened so I assume the caps were on good, but as I said some do not have much carbonation. I conditioned the bottles in temps that ranged from 70-80 degrees. This is my very first batch. How can I learn from this and keep this from happening again?

Not sure if you used FIZZ DROPS or not, but if you did.....that's your problem. Get yourself a box of Domino Dot Sugar Cubes (198 count). Use one cube per 12 oz bottle or 2 cubes per 22 oz bottle.

I've found fizz drops to be very inconsistent like what you've had. JMO

 

[Dee74]

I used corn sugar boiled in water that I added to a bottling bucket.

 

[cajunbrewer14]

Not sure if you used FIZZ DROPS or not, but if you did.....that's your problem. Get yourself a box of Domino Dot Sugar Cubes (198 count). Use one cube per 12 oz bottle or 2 cubes per 22 oz bottle.

I've found fizz drops to be very inconsistent like what you've had. JMO

i will try this next time! seems to me that would be a better more efficient way.

 

[Lefou]

I used corn sugar boiled in water that I added to a bottling bucket.

Dropping one sugar cube per bottle reduces the inconsistency of a mixing bucket. Some bottles may be fine, others flat or over-carbed. Do yourself a favor and prime each bottle individually, your results will be better.

 

[flars]

I made up this chart for carbonation level from Domino Dots using the Northern Brewer carbonation calculator.

Domino Dots™
1 pound = 454 grams
198 Dots per pound
2.29 grams per cube
…......
2.3 volumes for 5 gallons at 68°F = 100.32 grams of sucrose
48 bottles from 5 gallons = 2.09 grams of sucrose per bottle

2.4 volumes for 5 gallons at 68°F = 107.23 grams of sucrose
48 bottles from 5 gallons = 2.23 grams of sucrose per bottle

2.5 volumes for 5 gallons at 68°F = 114.15 grams of sucrose
48 bottles from 5 gallons = 2.38 grams of sucrose per bottle

One Dot in a 12 ounce bottle for a Wit Bier may be under
carbing but fairly good carbonation for American styles.

 

[Konadog]

So I primed and bottle conditioned my beer for about a month. Some bottles are really good beer with good carbonation and others, not so good and almost flat. Every bottle gives that whish sound and the release of gas when opened so I assume the caps were on good, but as I said some do not have much carbonation. I conditioned the bottles in temps that ranged from 70-80 degrees. This is my very first batch. How can I learn from this and keep this from happening again?

When I was first bottling, I had this problem more than once. What I found was that when mixing the corn sugar mixture into the wort, I didn't mix enough and because of that, some bottles get more, some less. Once I started mixing better (longer) it was better.

Now I just keg and don't worry.

 

[canehdianman]

When I was first bottling, I had this problem more than once. What I found was that when mixing the corn sugar mixture into the wort, I didn't mix enough and because of that, some bottles get more, some less. Once I started mixing better (longer) it was better.

Now I just keg and don't worry.

This is almost always the answer.

Mix your sugar into some hot water and add it to your bottling bucket FIRST. Then rack your beer onto that. This will ensure that it is properly mixed up.

Adding the sugar after means it doesn't mix very well and leads to over/undercarbed bottles.

Or just start kegging

 

[balrog]

Stir in the sugar longer is all I think you need. Carefully stir, of course to avoid introducing O2, but mix it long and well. Adding the sugar water first and racking on top is really good to help with mixing.

 

[IslandLizard]

When I was first bottling, I had this problem more than once. What I found was that when mixing the corn sugar mixture into the wort, I didn't mix enough and because of that, some bottles get more, some less. Once I started mixing better (longer) it was better.

Now I just keg and don't worry.

Good mixing is indeed the key. Add your dissolved priming sugar when about a gallon of beer has siphoned over. With the racking hose reaching the bottom of the bottling bucket it should quite mix well, automatically. Then before bottling stir gently, without beating air into it.

Using that method I never had trouble with inconsistent carbonation when I was bottling.

 

[flars]

My technique is to siphon half of the beer from the primary to the bottling bucket then slowly add the priming sugar solution without splashing. Right or wrong thinking is the concentrated sugar solution will disperse better in a larger volume. I have the end of the siphon hose curled around the bottom of the bottling bucket. This creates a continuous circular motion to stir the beer.

 

[bgriff]

+1 on adding your boiled sugar to the bottling bucket before you rack your beer into it. The movement of the beer into the bucket is enough to disperse the sugar evenly throughout. I’ve been doing it this way for 3 years and the only time I ever had a problem with this method was when I tried using dememera sugar that I accidentally let reduce down to a syrupy consistency and had inconsistent carbonation with that batch.

 

[Dee74]

Thanks for all the advice. This first time I added the water and sugar into the bottling bucket first and then racked on top of it but did not stir. I thought the whirlpool effect from the hose would stir it enough to disperse the sugar. Apparently some bottles had more sugar than others.

If I try using sugar cubes do I need to give each cube a quick dip in sanitizer solution or do I just drop them in a clean bottle?

 

[Konadog]

I still stirred after doing the same, especially if the wort is cold, and your sugar mix is warm.

As for the sugar drops, I would just toss them in without putting my sweaty hands all over them. I would think if you get any liquid on them, it will turn into a sticky mess that will be worse in the long run.

 

[flars]

Thanks for all the advice. This first time I added the water and sugar into the bottling bucket first and then racked on top of it but did not stir. I thought the whirlpool effect from the hose would stir it enough to disperse the sugar. Apparently some bottles had more sugar than others.

If I try using sugar cubes do I need to give each cube a quick dip in sanitizer solution or do I just drop them in a clean bottle?

Sugar is a natural preservative. No need to sanitize as long as the cubes are kept clean.

 

[JulietKilo]

Thanks for all the advice. This first time I added the water and sugar into the bottling bucket first and then racked on top of it but did not stir. I thought the whirlpool effect from the hose would stir it enough to disperse the sugar. Apparently some bottles had more sugar than others.

If I try using sugar cubes do I need to give each cube a quick dip in sanitizer solution or do I just drop them in a clean bottle?

Mixing the sugar in better sure sounds easier than sugar cubes. I'd have thought the whirlpool effect would have been enough as well? But to be sure just stir gently with a sterilized spoon or paddle. 5oz sugar per 5gal has always done it for me.

 

[Leezer]

I've been using sugar cubes all along, just drop one in each bottle. Kind of a one size fits all method but I have been happy with the carbonation results.

 

[RM-MN]

Lack of carbonation or lack of heading? If you get the same or similar "Phsst!" when opening but some lack the head that others have you are looking at a different problem. Glassware (including the bottles) that has any soap residue or anti-spotting agent from the dishwasher will kill the heading on your beer.

 

[Sadu]

In my experience, it's not enough to put the sugar in the bottling bucket first and rack on top of it. I have wrecked 2 batches by doing this, same problem as you describe. Others will disagree but I say that a gentle stirring is a critical part of the process.

Also OP, you want to watch out for bottle bombs. Some bottles may have a lot more sugar than others and could be very highly carbonated so you need to be a bit careful with the rest of the batch. I would say the chance of bombs is low if they have already been 1 month at 70-80 but even so, I would take precautions because bottle bombs are a real hazard. At best you have a bottle explode in your closet and make your carpet stink of beer, which won't make wifey fall in love with your new hobby. At worst they explode in someone's hand. You can minimise the risk by storing the bottles in the fridge, or if that's not practical somewhere cool in a sturdy plastic box with lid or towel over the top. Be gentle with the bottles when moving them into the fridge and I wouldn't give any from this batch away.

 

[Rhaop]

In my experience, it's not enough to put the sugar in the bottling bucket first and rack on top of it. I have wrecked 2 batches by doing this, same problem as you describe. Others will disagree but I say that a gentle stirring is a critical part of the process.

I too have had issues with 2 out of dozens of bottled batches, i use almost 3 cups water to my priming sugar to start because I received bad advice when i started brewing i was so scared of watering down my beer I used to start out with 2 cups and by the time i boiled the crap out of it i will have maybe a cup of priming sugar solution and it gave me issues with even carbonation

So i start with 3 cups water, add my corn sugar, boil gently for 5 min or so, i let cool for the time it takes me to get whatever else ready i dump that right into the bottom of bottling bucket, rack on that and give it a gentle stir several times during racking seems to help and no noticeable oxidation if you are careful stirring

 

[Dee74]

I thought about this thread again yesterday. I opened four bottles of my brew yesterday and all 4 were very flat and I did. not drink them. The bottles did make a little bit of sound of air rushing out but I opened a bottle of store bough and there was a significant difference. Out of the 30 or so bottles I have have opened, only 3 had enough carbonation to produce any type of head. Definitely a lesson learned and will try dominoes dots next time. I thought about trying to make some malt vinegar but I think I need a higher alcohol content than an Irish red.

 

[flars]

No carbonation with several weeks of warm conditioning at 70°F to 75°F? You could have experimented with dropping a "Dot" in each bottle and recapping, then chilling a bottle for several days before opening.

 

[ncbrewer]

I've had capper issues in the past. Maybe that's the problem.

 

[ancientmariner52]

Every bottle I cap, I invert for a few seconds and look for leaks. Caught a few. I believe, with no sort of proof, that the sugary beer may help make a seal on less than perfect caps. The oxygen in the headspace is going to end up in the beer anyway, so I don't worry about agitating the beer at this point.

 

[ncbrewer]

Once, when having a capper problem, I put two bottles in mugs of water upside down for five hours. The water didn't get darker - one of them was a brown ale. Then I put them in a bucket of water right side up for 30 minutes - I saw no bubbles. Note: With this particular test, it's possible that the pressure had escaped before I tried it, so not really conclusive, but I don't trust the leak test to be the final answer.

 

[ancientmariner52]

No, not the final answer, just something I do. I did say no proof?

On the same topic, I had occasion to look at the capping dies (bells?) on my old hand capper and my new bench capper. The old one (thousands of bottles) was nice and round. The new one (50 bottles) was durn near square. I had some flat bottles from that last batch. Both cappers from the same well known Italian maker. I'm going to machine my own dies from now on.

 

[Dee74]

Well this was my first batch ever with a brand new capper that came with the starter kit. I am pretty sure it has sealed most caps, nothing seems to be leaking and I shook several bottles hoping this would help the carbonation. Each bottle still releases CO2 when opened so I assumed they were capped well. One thing is certain, I do plan on getting a bench capper, the two handled “wing like” capper seems like a failure waiting to happen.

 

[Dee74]

Every bottle I cap, I invert for a few seconds and look for leaks. Caught a few. I believe, with no sort of proof, that the sugary beer may help make a seal on less than perfect caps. The oxygen in the headspace is going to end up in the beer anyway, so I don't worry about agitating the beer at this point.

When I bottled I tipped every bottle upside down as a quick test to see if they were capped correctly. Nothing leaked so I assumed it was good.

 

[ancientmariner52]

Sounds like a plan. Just be sure to inspect the business end so you don't get a warped one.

 

[thehaze]

I never stir once, I transferred the beer. The first thing I put in the bottling bucket is the sugar solution and then I will siphon the beer on top of it, without splashing. The whirlpool created by the siphon hose, which lies at the bottom of the bucket, will suffice to mix the sugar with the beer.

I have done so for 19 batches. I never had an issue, but I guess it could happen.

 

[Dee74]

Not to keep dragging this thread up but I did a little experimenting. I had some extra caps and the bottles I have left have been stored in a room that has been between 50-55 degrees for a month or so. I thought I would add more sugar and recap a few, bring them to a warmer part of the house and check back in a couple of weeks. I opened 7 bottles and was getting ready to add 1/2 tsp of sugar to each bottle when the beer just starting flowing uncontrollably out of the bottle. The bottles had only been uncapped about 10 seconds. Well that was quite the mess and they looked like a small volcano slowly erupting for several minutes. Did I find some bottles that received more sugar than others or is there something else going on here?

 

[BigCrazyAl]

... flowing uncontrollably out of the bottle. The bottles had only been uncapped about 10 seconds. Well that was quite the mess and they looked like a small volcano slowly erupting for several minutes. Did I find some bottles that received more sugar than others or is there something else going on here?

I believe if you opened them warm then the suspended yeast acted as nucleation points to allow CO2 to come out of suspension quickly. On a side note, have you verified that your caps seal correctly? I remember reading a while back where a guy got some that were apparently just decorative... not sure why they even make those.

 

[Dee74]

I believe if you opened them warm then the suspended yeast acted as nucleation points to allow CO2 to come out of suspension quickly. On a side note, have you verified that your caps seal correctly? I remember reading a while back where a guy got some that were apparently just decorative... not sure why they even make those.

I did open them warm without any refrigeration, next time I will chill the bottles if I want to add sugar. The caps came with my starter kit so I assume they are made for bottling.

 

[BigCrazyAl]

I did open them warm without any refrigeration, next time I will chill the bottles if I want to add sugar. The caps came with my starter kit so I assume they are made for bottling.

I'm sure they're fine then. Reading back in this, I don't see a mention of the amount of priming sugar you used. Do you remember? Apologies if I may have missed it.

 

[Dee74]

I'm sure they're fine then. Reading back in this, I don't see a mention of the amount of priming sugar you used. Do you remember? Apologies if I may have missed it.

I used 3.5 ounces of corn sugar in about a cup of boiling water.

 

[BigCrazyAl]

I used 3.5 ounces of corn sugar in about a cup of boiling water.

That seems like an acceptable amount for a 5 gallon batch. As others have said, dissolve it in at least 2 cups of water and rack the beer onto it in the bottling bucket. If it's too syrupy, it won't mix correctly and you'll get some carbonation consistency issues. I've made this mistake on my Weizenbock and have since started using 2-3 cups of water to dissolve the priming sugar. I personally am not sure about the Dominos dots or priming drops but that's just me worrying about sanitation.

 

[flars]

How many weeks were the bottles held at 70°F+ for conditioning? How many days did you chill each bottle before opening?

Full carbonation will not happen unless the bottles are chilled for at least three days in the refrigerator to force the CO2 into solution.

Adding granular sugar to a bottle that has some carbonation will result in instant gushing. I would not recommend this.

 

[flars]

That seems like an acceptable amount for a 5 gallon batch. As others have said, dissolve it in at least 2 cups of water and rack the beer onto it in the bottling bucket. If it's too syrupy, it won't mix correctly and you'll get some carbonation consistency issues. I've made this mistake on my Weizenbock and have since started using 2-3 cups of water to dissolve the priming sugar. I personally am not sure about the Dominos dots or priming drops but that's just me worrying about sanitation.

I missed this about only using one cup of water to dissolve the priming sugar. I use not less than two cups to create a thinner solution. A thinner solution will disperse more readily than one that is more syrupy.

 

[Dee74]

How many weeks were the bottles held at 70°F+ for conditioning? How many days did you chill each bottle before opening?

Full carbonation will not happen unless the bottles are chilled for at least three days in the refrigerator to force the CO2 into solution.

Adding granular sugar to a bottle that has some carbonation will result in instant gushing. I would not recommend this.

The bottles were at 70+ degrees for over a month. The bottles that I have chilled were in the refrigerator for 5 days to two weeks, all with the same outcome.

 

[Dee74]

[QUOTE="Adding granular sugar to a bottle that has some carbonation will result in instant gushing. I would not recommend this.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, I will remember this. I did not even get to add the sugar before they started gushing.