Help for a newbie

[revdoggy]

Please Help: I have been working on my first batch (american pale ale). It spent 10 days in the primary fermenter. I then racked it to the secondary fermenter. At that time the brew smelled great. I waited 6 days at 60f then went to prime and bottle. At that point the brew smells completely different. I tasted it, and it tastes very bitter and sour. What happened? What should I do? Thank you.
John

 

[McCall St. Brewer]

Wait awhile. Assuming nothing has gone wrong (if your equipment was properly sanitized when you racked to your secondary it should be fine), you just need to be patient. Most batches taste pretty crummy at bottling time. 2 weeks in the bottles can work miracles. Wait a few weeks longer and it should be even better.

 

[Kaiser]

I tasted it, and it tastes very bitter and sour. What happened? What should I do?

Bitter is not so bad. But sour, this sounds like lactic acid produced by bacterial infection.

Give it some more time. If it gets worse, then you definitely got some lactobazillus in there.

Kai

 

[Sasquatch]

Agreed, it sounds like you infected your beer. Clean primed beer just tastes a bit sweet. Sounds like acetobacter of lactobac to me. Don't dump the beer yet, but don't be surprised if it doesn't get better.

 

[david_42]

One way to deal with soured ale is to add some berry to it. Blackberry can cover a multitude of problems, which is good as I have many blackberries. I learned this from a pro, who's blackberry stout is well regarded

 

[revdoggy]

Thank you all for your advice; I just don't know how I could have intoduced the bacteria. I use bleach as my disenfectant. Is that wrong?

 

[Genghis77]

Sanitizer is a more correct term for bleach. Though I just saw a Clorox commercial where they referred to their product as a sterilizer. But, each person has their opinion on bleach. I use it myself for most sanitizing. Though I agree something is left to be desired if it requires rinsing.

Get to thinking about it, maybe people who brew outside have a better idea. I have often heard air pollution is often higher inside a house. If you did get an infected brew all you can do is be more meticulous about sanitizing hands and equipment in the future. On the plus side, your brew is almost certain to turn out well in the end. Most off tastes early on are corrected as it ages.

 

[El Pistolero]

I use bleach as my disenfectant. Is that wrong?

What concentration? Did you rinse?

 

[revdoggy]

Whatever the "Bible" said to use. Is it possible I did not rinse well enough?

 

[homebrewer_99]

I use bleach as my disenfectant. Is that wrong?

If your beer tastes like vinegar it's because you didn't rinse all the bleach off.

 

[Beer Snob]

Thank you all for your advice; I just don't know how I could have intoduced the bacteria. I use bleach as my disenfectant. Is that wrong?

Well... I would not say "Wrong"... but there are easier alternatives. Many people use bleach. I have always used stuff like.. "One step" You really cant get too much easier then it. I agree with Genghis77... if you have to rinse what you are sanitizing very well before using it.... there is certainly something to be said about it.

 

[El Pistolero]

Whatever the "Bible" said to use. Is it possible I did not rinse well enough?

Which bible...Papazian?

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

What yeast strain are you using? Some strains have strange flavors/odors while fermenting. What temp was the fermentation at?

 

[revdoggy]

I was using dry Nottingham yeast and the book was indeed Papazien's. I fermented at 70f then transfered to the secondary and it remained at 62ish. Once again, when it came out of the primary fermenter it smelled great; when it came out of the second, not so great.

John

 

[cgravier]

Thank you all for your advice; I just don't know how I could have intoduced the bacteria. I use bleach as my disenfectant. Is that wrong?

trust me...its not that hard for bacteria to get into your wort, yes they dont have legs, or wings, or any other means of transportation, but they are EVERYWHERE!

 

[Genghis77]

Bacteria float in on waves of air and even sunlight. Not even hospitals can fully eliminate the problem. And anyone brewing will eventually have a failure no matter how hard they try to remain sanitary. All any of us can do is reduce the odds.

​

 

[DAAB]

If your beer has a definate sour vinaegar taste it is either Aceto or Lacto bacteria.
Pour it down the drain and soak everything you use to brew with in your sanitizer/cleaner for at least an hour.

If you use a chlorine based cleaner and didnt rinse properly you end up with a TCP/medicinal flavour to your beer.

If you use a siphon, dont suck on it to start it your mouth is full of bacteria. Better still fit a tap to your fermentor and a transfer pipe (to prevent aeration).

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

He said sour and bittery, not vinagery.

Bitterness will be from the hops. Sourness could be yeast in suspension or esters. It could be lacto bacteria, but that I don't think that one is very alchohol tolerant.

Does it seem like anything listed here: http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html

How sour do you mean? Like sucking on sour candy?

 

[revdoggy]

My first impression was that it had a "heat" to it especially the after taste. The only thing I can think of is that I did not fully rinse the tube and or seconday fermenter. Everything was great until a week in the secondary fermenter. Oh well they are in the bottles waiting for a couple of weeks.

John

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

Well, let us know how they taste after a few weeks in bottle.

 

[DAAB]

Maybe I have exceptionaly unique taste buds DennyBrew, but if I had a mouthfull of vinegar I would probably describe it as sour and bittery, but just incase, I did choose to ask the question

If your beer has a definate sour vinaegar taste it is either Aceto or Lacto bacteria

It maybe worth considering that Lambic Wheat Beers are described as having a 'Lactic sourness' and a Traditional 1700's porter was said to be 'Soured' by adding a percentage of stale beer (the sourness being provided by acetic acid otherwise known as vinegar, found in the stale beer)

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

Maybe I have exceptionaly unique taste buds DennyBrew, but if I had a mouthfull of vinegar I would probably describe it as sour and bittery, but just incase, I did choose to ask the question

Well, to me vinegar tastes like well vinegar. Usually you can smell it before you even taste it.

I'm not saying your wrong, just that if it was a full blown aceto infection it would be hard to miss.

Either way after a few weeks in the bottle and it should be pretty obvious.

Here's to hoping it's not an infection!

If it is a lacto infection just tell your friends it a belgium lambic.

 

[DAAB]

If it is an infection my money would be on Lactobacillus being the cause, its found in the mouth (which is perfectly normal) so starting a siphon by sucking on it is a sure way to infect your beer. (Often done by first time brewers). The pet dog licking your brewing equipment or hands is another way etc...

Aceto bacteria can show itself as strands of jelly like stuff and converts the sugars in the wort to acetic acid....vinegar.

Its not worth making a big deal about getting an infection, chalk it up to experience, its all part of the learning process.

I got an infection once and it was a definate vinegar taste, no question about it. I would take a mouth full and have a good taste, if youre sitting there thinking 'hmmmm it might be vinegar but then again....maybe just another taste to check', what you tasting is green beer , it may not mature to a taste that you like but more than likely will turn out to be a perfectly OK.