I just finished pouring 5 gallons of cider down the drain. I fermented for 2 weeks, and 1 week in the secondary- Added tannin to unpazed cider with sugar and champ yeast. Batch had bad smell & taste. I want to start a second batch and would love any advise on creating a clear Woodpecker/Woodchuck type draft cider..any thoughts? tx.
HELP First Cider batch down the drain
- Thread starter Timco
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk:
Evan!
Well-Known Member
"bad smell and taste"? Please elaborate. Did it smell like...rotten eggs? If so, you just poured 5 gallons of perfectly good cider down the drain. Often, cider smells/tastes sulfury while its fermenting, but that will blow off/dissipate with age.
So, first things first: never ever dump anything before consulting HBT first!
Second...woodchuck is kind of sweet if I remember correctly. So what you'll need to do is add some kind of unfermentable sugar to the batch. I'd use cider yeast, and do it like this: take the cider, add campden tablets (crushed and dissolved in hot water), wait 12 hours, add pectic enzyme, wait another twelve hours, then pitch the yeast. Fermentation will take awhile...mine took like 3 weeks to finish. Once the airlock activity has subsided and it looks like it's clearing up, you can take a gravity reading. I'd rack to secondary at this point, and let it sit for a long time. Like, a couple months at least (not speaking from experience, just word of mouth, as my first batch of cider is still in secondary right now). You can speed the clarifying process up quite a bit if you lager it like I'm doing with mine.
But if you want it to finish sweet, then you need to add some lactose back to it at some point.
So, first things first: never ever dump anything before consulting HBT first!
Second...woodchuck is kind of sweet if I remember correctly. So what you'll need to do is add some kind of unfermentable sugar to the batch. I'd use cider yeast, and do it like this: take the cider, add campden tablets (crushed and dissolved in hot water), wait 12 hours, add pectic enzyme, wait another twelve hours, then pitch the yeast. Fermentation will take awhile...mine took like 3 weeks to finish. Once the airlock activity has subsided and it looks like it's clearing up, you can take a gravity reading. I'd rack to secondary at this point, and let it sit for a long time. Like, a couple months at least (not speaking from experience, just word of mouth, as my first batch of cider is still in secondary right now). You can speed the clarifying process up quite a bit if you lager it like I'm doing with mine.
But if you want it to finish sweet, then you need to add some lactose back to it at some point.
Germey
Well-Known Member
Timco said:
Well, I can't say for sure without experiencing the "bad" taste and smell myself, but you may have been a bit premature with the dumping. The general consensus for fermenting cider (esp the infamous Apfelwein) is that you should wait 4-6 or even more weeks for your fermentation. I know the initial fermentation smell is pretty funky compared to beer. I have never tasted it that early in the process.
Probably not what you want to hear since you already poured it down the drain. In general, avoid panic like that. Lots of things can get better with age. Even some beers with bacterial infections might even turn out drinkable with enough time (yeah, I meant to make a lambic, that's the ticket.)
I have been reading HBT along, but decided today to actually ask the question- it was kind of rotten egg smelling- I bottled it in hopes keeping it from turning to vinegar- I have to start again, any thought on a definitive recipe or book? Is Draft cider any different than still or Carbed?
Evan!
Well-Known Member
Wait, did you bottle it or dump it? I'm confused. I thought you said you dumped it down the drain! Or do you mean, you bottled it, THEN dumped each bottle?
Dunno about a book, I just asked Yooper for help. She rocks.
Still = uncarbonated
Carbed = carbonated
Draft = kegged (or, alternately, a meaningless word that woodchuck et al puts on their bottles for marketing purposes).
Dunno about a book, I just asked Yooper for help. She rocks.
Still = uncarbonated
Carbed = carbonated
Draft = kegged (or, alternately, a meaningless word that woodchuck et al puts on their bottles for marketing purposes).
![Craft A Brew - Safale BE-256 Yeast - Fermentis - Belgian Ale Dry Yeast - For Belgian & Strong Ales - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [3 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51bcKEwQmWL._SL500_.jpg)
Evan!
Well-Known Member
ouch, you spent the time bottling, then the time opening each one? Add insult to injury! Sorry man, that's gotta hurt. I've had infected batches before...it's no fun.
OK stupid question and then I'll leave you alone-potassium sulfate to the 5 gal of cider it sat for over a week, plus in the bucket (properly cleaned) with a towel over it. When I opened to pitch I had to skim some mold off the top- did I bugger it up at that point?
Germey
Well-Known Member
Boy, talk about snippets of info. When did you do this week-long K2SO4 treatment? Do you mean metabisulfite?Timco said:
I was going to say that you probably saved your self from a batch of bottle bombs since you bottled so early, but maybe not.
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2007
- Messages
- 528
- Reaction score
- 19
Wow... I cried a little just now hearing that you dumped 5 gallons of cider down the drain because of a rotten egg smell...
First, 3 weeks isn't nearly long enough for cider... it should sit in primary 2-4 weeks, then rack to secondary for another 2-4 weeks... after that, you can either bottle or rack again into bulk aging for 3-6 months. Cider is quite different when it is young (or in your case, unfinished) compared to aged (even if for a month or so). A good cider (not Woodchuck) should taste like a good white wine, but still have a good bit of apple flavor left. Remember, RDWHAHB, cider takes a while...
Also, the potassium sulphate should not have sat for a week. The mold on top was probably a really bad sign. If you are going to sulphite (campden, K2SO4, etc.) it should only be for 24 hours before you pitch.
As far as books go, there are a couple that I would recommend if you are seriously interested. The first is $4, and a very good 'intro to cider' imho, check it out, Making The Best Apple Cider.
The second book I would recommend, I just finished reading myself, and is a much more in depth look at making cider... Cider: Making, Using & Enjoying Sweet And Hard Cider.
NOTE: Both links forward to HomebrewHeaven.com, just because that's where I bought them from, I'm sure you could also find them on Amazon or Half.com as well...
First, 3 weeks isn't nearly long enough for cider... it should sit in primary 2-4 weeks, then rack to secondary for another 2-4 weeks... after that, you can either bottle or rack again into bulk aging for 3-6 months. Cider is quite different when it is young (or in your case, unfinished) compared to aged (even if for a month or so). A good cider (not Woodchuck) should taste like a good white wine, but still have a good bit of apple flavor left. Remember, RDWHAHB, cider takes a while...
Also, the potassium sulphate should not have sat for a week. The mold on top was probably a really bad sign. If you are going to sulphite (campden, K2SO4, etc.) it should only be for 24 hours before you pitch.
As far as books go, there are a couple that I would recommend if you are seriously interested. The first is $4, and a very good 'intro to cider' imho, check it out, Making The Best Apple Cider.
The second book I would recommend, I just finished reading myself, and is a much more in depth look at making cider... Cider: Making, Using & Enjoying Sweet And Hard Cider.
NOTE: Both links forward to HomebrewHeaven.com, just because that's where I bought them from, I'm sure you could also find them on Amazon or Half.com as well...
OK, still beating this dead horse...I do have about a case of Quarts of this cider batch. Last question, did the mold at the beginning kill the whole thing or should I leave the bottles alone-(In a garb bag lest they burst) and hope it ages into taste?
Also...RDWHAHB?
Also...RDWHAHB?
bigjohnmilford
bigger than most
Also...RDWHAHB?[/QUOTE]
relax don't worry drink a home brew
Better luck with your next batch
relax don't worry drink a home brew
Better luck with your next batch
JavaBeans
Well-Known Member
Timco said:
Cider stinks for about 2 months. And finally starts to get clear after 3 months. I bought 12 gallons of cider in October and will bottle the first carboy in April or may. The other one will hit a year before I drink it.
Patience is not only a virtue, but damn tasty too.
I can't answer the question about the mold- I guess it would depend if the campden and racking got rid of it.
I always use campden tablets for fruit wines and juice wines and ciders, unless they are pasteurized. Then, 12 hours later, pitch the yeast. Allow it to ferment until done (and sometimes it's really stinky the first week or so) and then rack it and keep it in a dark place. I rack sometimes 2 or 3 times if I have lees. Then after 6 months or so, it can be bottled. I use campden tablets every other racking and at bottling. I don't carbonate ciders or wines, since I like them still and clear.
I always use campden tablets for fruit wines and juice wines and ciders, unless they are pasteurized. Then, 12 hours later, pitch the yeast. Allow it to ferment until done (and sometimes it's really stinky the first week or so) and then rack it and keep it in a dark place. I rack sometimes 2 or 3 times if I have lees. Then after 6 months or so, it can be bottled. I use campden tablets every other racking and at bottling. I don't carbonate ciders or wines, since I like them still and clear.
JavaBeans
Well-Known Member
Timco said:
JavaBeans
Well-Known Member
Timco said:
Oh yeah, I'd try one at NewYear's just for giggles.
Good luck on the next batch!
JavaBeans said:
That would be for still cider, correct? i like to lightly carbonate mine, and will usually ferment in primary for a few weeks, until it stops bubbling, rack it off into a secondary until it clarifies a bit, then prime and bottle, THEN the aging starts, last batch went about 9-10 months before it became really good.
JavaBeans
Well-Known Member
Andy77 said:
I'm planning on lightly force carbing it in a keg. So it stays in the glass carboys for now...
