Help! First All-Grain Batch and now doing the math

[bheinemann]

Hi- I'm new to all-grain brewing and I am so confused about all of this OG, BG, efficiency, etc.

I brewed a black ipa (CDA) and used:
10 lb. pale 2-row
1 lb. crystal 40
8 oz. carafa III
4 oz. chocolate malt

So that's 11.75 lbs. of grain. I ended up with 8.5 gallons after I finished my sparge. I took a reading (or tried- maybe I messed it up?) and got 1.022. From what I've read and the math I did- that means I was at like a 16 on efficiency- not good. But that doesn't make sense to me. Anyone help me out here- what do I do with all of these numbers?! Oh, and according to Palmer's book I was to take that hydrometer reading pre-boil, in the brew pot, which is what I did.

 

[ETCS]

Are you saying that you ended up with 8.5 gallons pre-boil volume? Or that you used 8.5 gallons of water for your water/grain ratio in the MASH? What was your post boil volume? If you had 8.5 pre-boil volume and only boiled for an that would leave about 7 gallons post boil (give or take some). Did you boil it down to 5 - 5.5 gallons?

A little bit of additional details will help to answer your question.

Cheers

 

[LLBeanJ]

A pre-boil gravity reading is good to know to determine mash efficiency, but post-boil is the most important. I don't even bother with pre-boil readings any more. Still, for that much grain, 1.022 pre-boil seems a bit low for any average gravity brew. Your grain was crushed, right?

EDIT: In thinking about this a bit more, as ETCS mentioned, that 8.5 gallons is likely the issue. For a 5 gallon batch, 8.5 gallons is a lot of liquor. I have to ask the same question: is 8.5 gallons the total mash volume or is that the pre-boil volume?

 

[peterj]

What was your mash temperature? 1.022 sounds way off unless you used cold water or didn't crush your grains like LLBeanJ said. You should get some software like BeerSmith or use brewersfriend.com. Makes things much easier and no math degree required.

 

[bheinemann]

Thanks for trying to help guys. I had fresh crushed grain from a brew shop. Strike temp was 160 degrees- it held at 152 for an hour long mash just perfectly. Strike water was 6 gallons (2 quarts per pound of grain, right?) and sparge water I used was probably 3.5-4 gallons. Yes, I ended up with 8.5 of pre-boil wort after the mash and sparge. Took a reading right then in the brew pot before starting the boil, got 1.022, then was alarmed by the huge volume in my pot so I boiled a little longer than an hour. Ended up with more than would fit in my glass carboy- filled it to the usual level (5 gallons) and tossed the rest. I probably had 5.5 gallons. My online search tells me the OG should be 1.063 based on my grain bill. Didn't take a post-boil reading. Does this help?

 

[walt3120]

If you started with 8.5 gallons of 1.022 and your final volume was 5.5 then you can calculate (or maybe estimate is a better word) your starting gravity.

(8.5 X 22)/5.5=32 or 1.032

That's pretty low, so maybe your mash wasn't as efficient as it should have been.

Forgive me if these seem too obvious, but these popped into my head and occasionally these things come up ....

Did you stir the entire 8.5 gallons of preboil wort before you took a sample for gravity? Was the sample at the correct temperature for your hydrometer when you measured the gravity? My hydrometer is calibrated for 60F so I put the the samples in the freezer for a while to get to the proper temp.

After many similar forgetful errors, I've finally had to make a list of all the tasks I need to perform during the brewing process. Even then I've been known to forget something in the rush to get the next step going.

I usually mash a little thicker at 1.25 quarts/lb for beers in the typical SG range, but I'm a batch sparger and I like to get those sparge volumes a little bigger by making the mash thicker.

 

[zacster]

Wait, if you took your reading warm, it won't be accurate at all. You need to take a cooled reading. Even with adjustments warm readings can be way off. I know this from experience, also on my first all-grain brew. I probably even have a thread on this.

BUT... If you got 8.5 gallons of pre-boil wort, you are also over the amount you should have. Combine the two factors and well, you have a mess.

 

[chuckda4th]

Assuming you were at 170deg F after sparge, according to this:

http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator/hydrometer.html

You were really at 1.047

 

[ETCS]

I guess to sum up all of the comments,
- 1.25 qts/lbs is the standard that most people use
- You had WAY too much pre-boil gravity for the beer that you were brewing (I am brewing a 10 gallon batch of Imperial IPA tomorrow that has a grain bill of 27 lbs and I am only using 10 gallons of strike water and 6.6 gallons for fly sparge and I will have a pre-boil of 13 gallons, for a 90 min boil).
- If you are taking a pre-boil gravity, stir the wort first to get it mixed up well, the higher gravity wort (i.e. first runnings will typically go the bottom of the brew kettle).
- Get some brew software (Beersmith, Promash or some free online software
- Learn from this and adjust next time.

Happy Brewing, Cheers

 

[bheinemann]

Hey guys- you are awesome. Okay. So the thing smelled great and is fermenting fervently so maybe it will be okay this time.
Next time- my second 1st time all-grain brewing...advice to start so I don't eff this up again? Specifically- amount of strike water, amount of sparge water, and taking hydrometer readings? I'd like to make a standard American IPA next. Hoppy.
Thanks you guys- I REALLY appreciate it! -Brett

 

[Frogmanx82]

For a 5 gallon batch most people shoot for about 6.5 gallons preboil volume. You have to subtract .1 gallons per pound of grain for the water lost in the wet grain. So for 11.75 pounds of grain you should be adding a total of about 7.7 gallons of water. You really shouldn't be much off that though I have to add about a quart to account for the dead space under my false bottom that doesn't get sucked out.

If you ended up with 8.5 gallons then you added almost 10 gallons during your mash and lauter. Way too much.

If you want to test the gravity of hot wort, get a refractometer.

 

[jdub1782]

Next time- my second 1st time all-grain brewing...advice to start so I don't eff this up again? Specifically- amount of strike water, amount of sparge water, and taking hydrometer readings?

Download a brewing software package and start playing with it. You can dial in all the parameters specific to your equipment, and then adjust based upon experience.

I use brewtarget, but there are many other packages that work just as well.

 

[J-Drew]

If I understand correctly, you took your pre-boil gravity in the brew kettle. I don't do this because hydrometers are delicate and I'm afraid of breaking mine, which would ruin the whole batch as well as my hydrometer. Personally, I would advise against it.

As for calculators, you don't have to buy brewing software if you don't want to. Here's a link to the free calculators I use: http://www.tastybrew.com/calculators/ I haven't purchased any of the software, so I can't compare them, but the tastybrew calculators have served me well. Here is a link you might also find helpful for calculations: http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml If I were to give one piece of advice for your strike water, I would recommend having some additional boiling water as well as cold water ready to help adjust the mash to your desired temperature after you have added your strike water (should you miss your desired temperature).

On another note, Palmer has a good chart for adjusting hydrometer readings based on the temperature of your sample in Appendix A of How to Brew: http://www.howtobrew.com/appendices/appendixA.html

 

[peterj]

+1 to everything J-Drew said. http://www.brewersfriend.com has all of the calculators I ever use and you can build recipes and record your brew sessions etc. You can do like 5 recipes for free or it's like $10 a year for unlimited access. But the calculators are always free.