Help! Did I infect my Brett Saison or is this cool?!

[CoreyG]

Hey Gang,

I was hoping for a little input. I made a Brett Saison. Essentially made a saison, primaried it down to like 1.004 then added Brett Lambicus from Wyeast which took it down to 0.998. This was brewed in Nov and Brett added in December.

In march, I tried it and it had a little bit of Brett flavour and some light sourness. I did accidentally stir it up a bit so some oxygen may have gotten in.
I bottled it 1 week ago, and on bottling day is was MUCH more sourer but Fu*!@*#ng amazing. Really nice and complex. This was warm and uncarbed. When bottling I had added a bit of sugar (1.8 levels of CO2) and added some US-05 just to help it carb.

I just opened a bottle, cold but not yet carbed, and the complexity has greatly reduced and its quite vinegary. In reality, all I taste it vinegar. It has only been in bottle 1 week, but it was 5 months in fermenter prior to this.

I'm questioning a couple of things:

1) I know acetobacter can make Acetic Aced/Vinegary taste but it needs O2. I know i probably introduced oxygen in all my manipulations, but is it possible that Acetobacter jumped in if it was already fermented down to like 0.998?

2) I know I hear alot that Brett doesnt normally sour... but Wyeast advertises a sourness in the strain description. Is it possible this is just the Brett's flavour profile? I also read a couple spots that when introduced to O2, Brett can produce Acetic Acid?

3) does bottling , like put a strain on the wild bacterias, and after botlling it needs to sit for a X amount of time before it returns to normal?. The beer had been on Brett for like 4-5 months, I figure it was enough but it seems like since I bottled it, its gone terrible FAST.

4) if this is just an exposure to O2 issue, how am I supposed to bottle a Brett beer properly without over exposing it? I waited like 6 months in a glass carboy, so little O2 infiltration and the only times it would ahve gotten air was while taking samples and transfering it around on bottling day (from carboy to bottling bucket to bottles)? Is there a better way to bottle a sour beer?

Anyways, if anyones got some insight on what might have happened or things I can do, or test, or just insight it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Dcpcooks]

Acetic acid is a potential problem. It could just be a little sick, although that is usually from pedio. At this point you really can only let it ride and bottle condition. Brett should be capable of scavenging small amounts of o2 during a secondary bottle conditioning fermentation. In other words the small amount of o2 picked up during bottling. Your FG before the Brett was pretty low so I'm not sure how much Brett character you'll get but you added priming sugar so it will go through another small conditioning fermentation in the bottle. You don't need to add sacc yeast to carb the beer. There is still Brett in suspension. One key to sours is preserving the Pellicle, it helps protect the beer from 02. So in the future don't stir or break it during the process just leave it alone. I prefer to add the Brett at the same time I add the sacc yeast so I don't have to touch it again until it done.

I highly doubt it's developed the vinegar in the week it's been in the bottle. It was either already in there or is just going through a phase. So let it ride and see what you get in a few weeks.

As the sacc yeast dies the Brett will eat it and this may help you out and clean it up.

Keep it in the mid 60's and let it condition for a while, a few weeks- to a few months. If it has really turned to vinegar you can't save it. Don't chill it as that will halt the conditioning fermentation and it won't carb up.. if it's all in the fridge pull it out and let it warm up in a dark place. You can gently tilt and roll the bottles to get the yeast back into suspension once it's warmed up. Take a look at the sediment level now and compare it to what you see in a few weeks. Hopefully you'll see an increase in the sediment levels which will indicate it's working for you.

Next time mash hotter so you leave some food for the Brett, 1.004 is too low to get much from the Brett. 1.024 is better. I use a low attenuating sacc yeast but I get most of my long chain sugars from the mash. Then you can add your bugs and let it finish to 1.003 ish range. Transfer it very carefully to your bottling bucket with the required amount of dextrose and let it condition and develop.

 

[CoreyG]

Hey Man,

Thank you for the detailed answer. I really do appreciate it!

A couple follow up questions if you dont mind. I've been doing some reading and it looks like its probably the O2 i exposed it to in march that did the damage, not necesarily the time since I bottled it. I definetly had shaked it up a bit in March ( my wine thief wasn't working properly so I was a bit more aggressive with it than I should have), so thats definetly my bad and I see that Brett can produce acetic acid when exposed to O2 so I think since March its been taking that O2 and working away with it to make Acetic Acd.

However, that being said, is there any mechanism that Brett has to clean of acetic acid once the O2 has depleted. Any idea?

In the future though, though I dont believe my bottling stage was an issue, is there a better way to bottle sour beer than to transfer it to a bottling bucjetm then bottle it from there?

Any advice you've got would be appreciated!

 

[Dcpcooks]

I agree it was most likely back in March that the 02 was introduced. Lots of head space and a few stirs and you had the makings. Other than blending to reduce the levels I'm not aware of a way out for this batch. You may see it taste like peach or reduce or change a bit but it will most likely turn towards solvent and larger levels of vinegar.... it's hard to know for sure without tasting it.

I still wouldn't toss the bottles. It's a byproduct of Brett and o2 and it may mellow or continue to change in the bottle with a little time.

I push beer with co2 to kegs and bottle with a beer gun. I'm not crazy about limiting exposure but I try to minimize contact with air. I also age sours in barrels and by nature they expose the beer to 02. You really shouldn't have to worry about bottling beer if you are quick tidy and reduce chances o2 exposure along the way.

 

[CoreyG]

Awesome. Thank you man. Time to start sour beer #2!