Help Design a Hop Farm Brew House

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

MODS!!!! Quick, delete the above post. This thread could grow to Layne Cyprus Tiger Tavern proportions. For the love of the interwebs don't discourage him now!!!



I was under the assumption this was mostly a fun thing that would have an added benefit for you. If it is a marketing thing, you should look into cost analysis... but where is the sense of adventure in that?



Honestly, I would allocate $10,000 for a full out awesome top of the line brewery including everything to go grain to glass. That would get you 15g production, yeast management, fermentation control, clearing, and serving. All in super high class.

Obviously, you could spend way less than that.

 

[The Pol]

I didnt think that this was to promote thier hops... but that it would be "cool" to have thier own ales and lagers on tap as a novelty to showcase thier hops.

Meh, sometimes you have to have fun with money, and not look at the bottom line or if you will see a "return"

Most of us will never see a return on our brewing investments

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Most of us will never see a return on our brewing investments

What?! You mean this won't be cheaper than buying store bought beer?

 

[HopBlooded]

I didnt think that this was to promote thier hops... but that it would be "cool" to have thier own ales and lagers on tap as a novelty to showcase thier hops.

Meh, sometimes you have to have fun with money, and not look at the bottom line or if you will see a "return"

Most of us will never see a return on our brewing investments

This. ^


Really, it's a way to have a little fun in an industry that's not going to be a ton of fun over the next 5-10 years as we absorb the effects of a 30% US acreage increase in response to the shortage of a couple of years ago.

If we can differentiate ourselves from someone else, or sell a brewer a variety he may not have considered previously because of it, it may end up paying for itself.




Plus, I can depreciate it for tax purposes.

 

[RegionalChaos]

Here is what I would get to go along with my hop house 1bbl setup.

http://www.tank-depot.com/productdetails.aspx?part=TN2442IN

A little over 200 with stand included. I'd get several. Good luck what ever you do! Be sure to keep u s posted.

 

[HopBlooded]

Here is what I would get to go along with my hop house 1bbl setup.

http://www.tank-depot.com/productdetails.aspx?part=TN2442IN

A little over 200 with stand included. I'd get several. Good luck what ever you do! Be sure to keep u s posted.

Thanks! That's interesting, so you'd use that for a bright/conditioning tank? Or for fermentation itself?

Cheers!

 

[TheAleMaster]

I think YCB uses Grant's original brew kettle. The one that was in his brew house on Washington Ave. is for sale (or at least was a few months back): Grant's Brew House

You could probably do at least a two tier and incorporate gravity at some point if you wanted to. If you went that route, I would use a pump from the HLT to MLT, then gravity into the BK.

 

[ajwillys]

First things first, never let 'business' minded people squash the creativity of your business.

This sounds really cool but you might want to look into the legalities of a brewery that is funded/ran by a business that is not licensed to brew beer. (hate to ruin the potential fun, but you gotta CYA).

If that clears, I would go for design aesthetics as somewhat of a priority. Brewers are impressed with stainless but since this is kind of a 'showcase' piece for the farm, I would look into something with copper accents, wood cladding, etc... Plus, it would go well with the 'old shed' that you will be brewing in. Breaker Brewing Company has a very nice system made from 55 gallon drums that I am currently working on copying. The plastic fermentors are an excellent solution inside a fermentation room and are very affordable. You would certainly want to 'hide' them from the tour to some extent.

Lastly, if you haven't already, look into the SMaSH (Single Malt and Single Hop) recipes on this site. They are excellent ways to accentuate a particular hop.

 

[RegionalChaos]

HopBlooded, I'd use the conicals to ferment, secondary, bright, anything.. I think they are too cheap to pass up. The only down side I see is they don't look pretty. Stainless just looks nice. But you could get about 10 60 gal conicals for the same price as the single 15gal stainless with all the doo-dads that the Pol posted. I'm really looking at this from a 'what would I do in your shoes' position.

 

[The Pol]

HopBlooded, I'd use the conicals to ferment, secondary, bright, anything.. I think they are too cheap to pass up. The only down side I see is they don't look pretty. Stainless just looks nice. But you could get about 10 60 gal conicals for the same price as the single 15gal stainless with all the doo-dads that the Pol posted. I'm really looking at this from a 'what would I do in your shoes' position.

I didnt post anything

 

[HopBlooded]

First things first, never let 'business' minded people squash the creativity of your business.

This sounds really cool but you might want to look into the legalities of a brewery that is funded/ran by a business that is not licensed to brew beer. (hate to ruin the potential fun, but you gotta CYA).

If that clears, I would go for design aesthetics as somewhat of a priority. Brewers are impressed with stainless but since this is kind of a 'showcase' piece for the farm, I would look into something with copper accents, wood cladding, etc... Plus, it would go well with the 'old shed' that you will be brewing in. Breaker Brewing Company has a very nice system made from 55 gallon drums that I am currently working on copying. The plastic fermentors are an excellent solution inside a fermentation room and are very affordable. You would certainly want to 'hide' them from the tour to some extent.

Lastly, if you haven't already, look into the SMaSH (Single Malt and Single Hop) recipes on this site. They are excellent ways to accentuate a particular hop.

Thanks for the advice. As far as licensing goes, does anyone know about this off the top of their head? At this point, there is no intent to sell or distribute anything other than for our own use. But it's something I hadn't thought of, so thanks for bringing it up.

The copper and wood idea is nice too. Hadn't thought of using wood in the equipment at all. Could be really neat.

I've looked at some of the SMaSH recipes and hope to go that way once we get up and running. Thanks again and cheers!

 

[HopBlooded]

HopBlooded, I'd use the conicals to ferment, secondary, bright, anything.. I think they are too cheap to pass up. The only down side I see is they don't look pretty. Stainless just looks nice. But you could get about 10 60 gal conicals for the same price as the single 15gal stainless with all the doo-dads that the Pol posted. I'm really looking at this from a 'what would I do in your shoes' position.

Thanks. I'd never seen a solution like that, so I definitely appreciate you bringing it up. So much to think about. Makes my head hurt....

 

[RegionalChaos]

I didnt post anything

Oh sorry, got you confused with Boerderij_Kabouter..

 

[HopBlooded]

OK, so I know it's not much to look at just yet, but this is what we are working with. The first step is new siding and a new roof, but hopefully you get the idea of where we are starting. You can see why it was a tear-down candidate.

We managed to get all of the junk out and remove the old windows and all the old electrical stuff, so we really are starting from scratch...

Front view:


Inside and looking out the double doors to our first hop field:


What's out the back:


Back view:


Inside, looking back to the "front" door:

 

[broadbill]

First things first, never let 'business' minded people squash the creativity of your business.

This sounds really cool but you might want to look into the legalities of a brewery that is funded/ran by a business that is not licensed to brew beer. (hate to ruin the potential fun, but you gotta CYA).

naw, let the 'legal" minded people squash the creativity instead...

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

That has some serious potential!!! :rockin:

 

[velosim]

As far as licensing goes, does anyone know about this off the top of their head? At this point, there is no intent to sell or distribute anything other than for our own use.

Just off the top of my head - I would think you would want to get a WA microbrew license (I know, PITA) because you are going to be going WAY over the homebrew limits. Washington has a relatively easy regulatory scheme for nanobreweries in that the fee is pretty reasonable ($100/year) and it allows you to self-distribute and have a taproom attached to your brewery (I know not things you are planning on having). You would also be allowed to give away samples on the brewery premises, but not sure if state or federal taxes would be due on that (not a tax attorney). Maybe there is another work-around to the problem of exceeding the homebrew limits, but I would think the microbrew license is probably the best way to go - microbrewery license in washington allows production of up to 60,000 bbl per year. Of course you would have to get zoning approval, local license approval, federal brewers notice approval, etc...

I am definately no expert on the matter but have looked into this briefly before. I know there is way for vineyards to make and provide wine in Washignton without some of the burdens of becoming a winery, but I don't think there is a similar exception for hop farms...

Hope this helps a little.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

As far as limits go... how many employees do you have. By law, they can each brew 100 gallons.

 

[HopBlooded]

Thanks! It's pretty hideous at the moment, so there's a bit of work to do before it's presentable. But it's a good size and location, so why not, right?

At the very least I won't have SWMBO on my case about all my equipment strewn about the house any more. That may be worth whatever the investment cost is...

 

[velosim]

I love the inside of it though - feels like a farmhouse. Has got great potential. Should be a fun project at least fixing it up and setting up the brewery just as you like. Possibilities are endless for you in there.

 

[HopBlooded]

Just off the top of my head - I would think you would want to get a WA microbrew license (I know, PITA) because you are going to be going WAY over the homebrew limits. Washington has a relatively easy regulatory scheme for nanobreweries in that the fee is pretty reasonable ($100/year) and it allows you to self-distribute and have a taproom attached to your brewery (I know not things you are planning on having). You would also be allowed to give away samples on the brewery premises, but not sure if state or federal taxes would be due on that (not a tax attorney). Maybe there is another work-around to the problem of exceeding the homebrew limits, but I would think the microbrew license is probably the best way to go - microbrewery license in washington allows production of up to 60,000 bbl per year. Of course you would have to get zoning approval, local license approval, federal brewers notice approval, etc...

I am definately no expert on the matter but have looked into this briefly before. I know there is way for vineyards to make and provide wine in Washignton without some of the burdens of becoming a winery, but I don't think there is a similar exception for hop farms...

Hope this helps a little.

Looking at the WA Homebrewers Association website just now, it looks like I would be constrained to 20 gallon batches without getting a license. How lame. I figured that if I wasn't selling it that the govt wouldn't care... Whoops. Serves me right for thinking the govt would stay out of private life, right?

Anyway, since you've looked into this before, is there a good resource you'd recommend. Thanks for your help!

 

[ajwillys]

naw, let the 'legal" minded people squash the creativity instead...

Bazinga!

I knew that was coming and I totally deserve it. The truth is you are right that it is a consideration, but every business 'wastes' money in an attempt to improve inside (employee) and outside (customers) views of the company. I look at this as a way to improve both.

 

[bendavanza]

Cool brew shack. If you keep the open rafters you could have a gravity HLT, and have room to hang cool beer related stuff.
I'm an electric noob but with a little reading here I was able to build a portable RIMS kit.
There are lots of knowledgeable members here who are generous with their advice.
Popular temp control options:
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1
http://www.embeddedcontrolconcepts.com/
http://www.brewtroller.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=11&Itemid=11

 

[velosim]

Anyway, since you've looked into this before, is there a good resource you'd recommend. Thanks for your help!

First the law:

Title 66 of the Revised Code of Washington

TTB - The feds

Other resources:

Washington Brewers Guild

Brewers Association

 

[HopBlooded]

First the law:

Title 66 of the Revised Code of Washington

TTB - The feds

Other resources:

Washington Brewers Guild

Brewers Association

Thanks! This should get me started I suppose.

 

[velosim]

Hey HB - how is the planning going? Any thoughts/ideas on your approach to the legal issues?

I live in Washington (Seattle) and wanted to start growing my own hops, but the ability to order them is limited with our state's hops quarantine laws. Does your farm sell them?

Cheers

 

[HopBlooded]

Planning is going well I think. We are going to take off the roof and siding this coming week and get the building in shape. I think I'm going to go with a single-tier Brutus style build, probably 20 gallon capacity, but haven't yet made the final decision there. As far as the legal issues go, I don't know what we are going to do. I need to spend a little more time on research to see what exactly our responsibility is. I'll keep you posted.

Our farm never has sold rhizomes direct to home growers, but that's probably because no one has ever asked. Depending on what varieties you were looking for, I may be able to come up with something. What varieties are you most interested in? I'd also check with hopsdirect.com. I know they have sold rhizomes over the internet in the past.

 

[HopBlooded]

Hey guys, after 6 weeks of debate and consternation, I've decided to go the route of the Brew-Magic after seeing one in person. Trying to replicate something with that sort of detail would probably cost upwards of the Brew Magic itself, so I figured it would save time and heartache to go that route. For fermentation, I think I'm going to go with at least 1 of MoreBeer's heated/cooled conicals plus 1-2 non-temp-controlled conicals. Since we will have a walk-in cooler, is it probably easiest to put the conicals on casters and use them as brite tanks after dumping the yeast? Or should I get some additional brite tank capacity (Sankes?) Thanks for everyone's input thus far. I'm really looking forward to getting this project moving again.

The siding and roof are off of the shack and we will hopefully start the interior and put the new roof on this week. I will post pictures of the progress soon.

 

[bendavanza]

Sanke kegs are much cheaper than conicals for storage/bright tanks and you can carb in them. I'd save the conical space for fermentation only.

 

[ajwillys]

The question for me would be batch size. Sanke kegs are cheaper (around $80 used or $160 new, remember we are talking legal kegs here), but they also require couplers ($25) and other fittings. The price will add up. Of course, it still probably cheaper than a temp controlled unitank (fermenter/bright tank in one). I would recommend trying to find an uninsulated, non jacketed tank to put in your walk-in. Do a search for 'dairy tanks' and you'll see lots of people selling them. Of course, this is only worthwhile if you expect to be crashing/carbing greater than 30 gallons or so at a time. If less, go with sanke's. I see you are figuring for around 20 gallons capacity of the brewhouse, but double batches are not uncommon.