Help conditionin in the Keg naturaly without priming sugar

[greggor]

I am interested in conditioning my beer in a cornie keg without adding priming sugar. Letting the ferment complete while the keg is sealed. this is a 10 gal batch half fermented with Wyeast Kolch and half with Wyeast 1056 my OG was 1.061 and I expect the beer to finish around 1.010. After 12 days in the primary I sealed two kegs on Thursday 10/16 one 3 gal and one 5 gal with a blast of CO2 (to seat the o ring) when it was at a gravity of 1.020. The remaing 2 gallons I put in a small carboy on a blanket of CO2 I checked the gravity in the carboy Sunday 10/19 it dropped 2 points over 4 days now at 1.018 it is apparently dropping about a half point a day, I can still taste some sweetness in the sample I pulled.

Can anybody point me in the direction of a table tat will give me an Idea what the volume of CO2 will be when the beer finishes.


And will preventing the CO2 from escaping prevent the beer from finishing (pressure on the yeast)?

 

[bsay]

Generally, the method you used isn't the "Standard" and I'm not sure there IS a table for it. Search for Krausening. The general principal behind krausening is that you save some wort, ferment out the rest (to completion), then add back in the measured amount you saved when bottling (but it should work with kegging too). You'll want to keep the set-aside amount sterile so it doesn't get infected.

I am sorry I can't help with your current situation, but I hope my reply is helpful anyway.

 

[Chriso]

Hmm. This doesn't bode well (not to be a worry wart!) because after 12 days in primary, both yeast strains you mentioned should've been pretty much done fermenting, and should have been clearing/conditioning by then. I am not trying to be discouraging ... but I think it may be approaching terminal gravity already. I could see dropping 2 points from having stirred up the yeast enough to eke a bit more activity out of them. I don't think they will keep working linearly, though, that is to say I don't think it's going to keep going at the rate of 1/2 point per day.

The fact that 1056, usually a "go-to" yeast, has only taken you from 1.061->1.020 (or even 1.018) in 12 days makes me think you got a lot of unfermentable sugars in this particular batch. Is it extract vs. all grain? DME vs. LME? More info needed on this stance. But really, both Kolsch and WY1056 should have finished a 1.060 beer out by now.

What you're referring to IS used by some microbreweries (especially in the use of pressurized bright tanks or clearing tanks) but is not often used on a homebrewing scale due to the difficulty of measuring and predicting the outcome.

Usually in instances in which this technique is used, it's within a few days of fermentation. That is to say, beer is brewed on day 1, beer approaches within 10 pts of its target gravity on day 4 or day 5, and is transferred to keg immediately to finish clearing, and to carbonate itself. The downside to this approach is a large amount of sediment in the keg.

If you are interested in carbonating and conditioning your beer without adding priming sugar, what are your thoughts on fermenting as usual, then force carbonating instead of priming it? This approach uses more CO2 gas (and thus nominally increases your costs) but achieves carbonation without generating more sediment from secondary fermentation.

Otherwise, if sediment is your problem with using priming sugar, you can always prime in keg #1, then once your beer is carbonated, transfer to keg #2 using a liquid-to-liquid jumper. Gently "push" your beer into the second keg, and in doing so, the sediment remains in the first one.

 

[greggor]

Chriso,
Thank you for that answer,
This was an all grain 90% pilsner malt 6% Munich 4% 20L crystal with a mash temp of 154, fermenting at a constant 60F, I am still seeing activity in the airlock but as you suggested perhaps it is from the transfer to the secondary. I transfered most of the beer into cornies after 12 days. I was surprised too and thought the ferment should have been complete within 7 days. I put the beer into cornies to cold condition the beer and thought maybe I could eek out the carbonation before cold conditioning, I really have no problem force carbonating the beer (my usual procedure) but thought if I closed up the keg I might get natural carbonation. I was worried the added pressure would compromise the yeast from being able to finish the job. The beer really tastes sweeter than what I had hoped the finished product would be.

 

[Chriso]

Cool. It sounds like you know what you're trying to do, and I agree with the technique you described. The added pressure should not compromise the yeast in any way, a number of other HBTers ferment under pressure (I think it's WortMonger who has excellent writeups on the subject).

I'm not sure why this batch is reluctant to finish fermenting out - I would suspect that perhaps 60*F is a hair too cold, and as such has slowed their process dramatically. Given the grain bill and mash temp(*) you described, I would expect both yeast strains to attenuate as desired, and as expected. You might try warming the kegs + carboy up to around 68*F and see if that helps it finish out.

(*)- Unless of course the thermometer was reading too high, and you unknowingly mashed at 158*F. Not a common occurance, but... thermometers can be pesky buggers, as many of us know all too well.