Help! Can i add honey as i have no caramel malt???

[Pablosanjari]

Hey fellow brewers
My LHBS had no caramel malts yesterday so stuck with
11lbs pale ale
7lbs Munich

Just wondering what I can add to give that little bit of body I'm going to be missing through not having caramel/crystal....

Is it possible to add honey and If so when? I'm not looking to taste the Honey in the brew later, jut looking to balance it out a bit.

 

[Quaker]

Honey is mostly simple sugar and will all ferment out doing the opposite of what you want. If you want body, you could mash at the high side of the typical range. Or you could add some flaked barley or wheat, but that may require another run to the store.

If you wanted some flavor, you could home roast some of the pale and/or Munich finding instructions in here or some books. But that will add a light roast, biscuity, or toasty taste, not caramel sweetness.

For caramel sweetness, you could take a quart or two of the wort in a separate pan and boil it aggressively to get some caramelization. Then add back to the rest and proceed with a normal boil as usual That can get you the caramel taste without a different grain addition.

 

[Pablosanjari]

Awesome!

I'll be giving the aggressive boil on the side a try.
Yet another technique ventured.

Is the aim to reduce the seperate quart to about half ?

 

[Quaker]

I would go by taste, not volume. Stir it so as not to scorch. You could do this with your first runnings while you sparge to save time. Mind you I'm relaying book smarts. I haven't done it yet myself, but boil caramelization is how Scottish Ales were traditionally made. I've been reading up on that this weekend as I'm hankering for some interesting session strength beers. However, I opted to experiment with sour mashing for a Berliner Weiss this time. That's a new technique for me. 46 hrs and still not as tart as I want it.

 

[Pablosanjari]

Haha nice one, that's the plan then.
I should be good at this then as I'm Scottish.

I be really interested to see how the souring goes , isn't that how they used to make guinness?

I'll let you know how this goes and keep me posted on your souring.

 

[Quaker]

I used a plain yogurt instead of raw grains for a more controlled and repeatable process. But I think it's also slower due to the absence of other bugs from the grain surface. Right now it tastes wonderful, with a clean refreshing, smooth sourness with the sweet wort flavor. I could drink a pint of it. Knowing that it'll be diluted, I think I need another day yet. I definitely would not describe it as tart yet, but that's more what i'm aiming for Super easy now that I've finally learned to leave it alone. Just a hot water infusion once a day to raise the temp. If the flavor is right tomorrow, I'll run-off, boil shortly and pitch it on a yeast cake of 550 (not the normal choice for the style, but I have it. Might as well salvage it.)

 

[Pablosanjari]

Thanks for all your help Quaker .
I reduced a liter of wort down to about 250ml. It ended up being a very loose syrup that tasted great. Something I would like to experiment with in the kitchen at work on a desert , really tasty.

Anyways I added that to the wort preboil and ended up coming away with an OG of 1.058 so I'm pretty happy.
Nothing too noticeable in the first taste but I'll let you know in a couple of weeks.

Hope all goes well with your brew and if possible could you recommend a source for some more info on the souring technique your using. Something I MUST try.
Using that salvaged yeast in your brew is perfect as then you get your own twist on that style and possibly find the best brew you've ever tasted. That's why I love cooking and brewing! Every time is an adventure.

Cheers

 

[Quaker]

I found some threads on HBT. But this BYO article was most informative regarding temperatures and why.

The yogurt I have directly states Lactobaccillus bulgaricus in it which is a subspecies of L. delbruckii. It definitely is a "clean" sourness. I kept the temps between 100-120 reliably for 36 hours. Tonight I lautered, sparged and boiled for 15 minutes. It's cooling now. I'm really looking forward to it.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

Beware the sudden and strong presence of diacetyl with bulgaricus and other lacto strains coming out of yogurt. The yeast should absorb it and break it down but don't be alarmed if you take a sample and it suddenly tastes like butter. Depending on how sour you want it and how much lacto was added it may take a couple more days to get where you want.

 

[Quaker]

Good to know.

 

[Pablosanjari]

Awesome thanks., I'm oinna check this out at the weekend
A new project!!!

 

[Quaker]

I pitched onto that WLP550 cake and in less than 2 hours it was fully active. At this rate, it'll be done in a day, but will surely need a longer to clean up after itself. I definitely way over pitched considering the low OG for this. It's also hot here, so the wort was around 76 F. Not my most controlled batch, but a stress free trial for sure.

 

[Pablosanjari]

Just cracked one open. Finished at 5.6% ABV tastes great with big hops. The caramel came through with the reduced wort addition.
Thanks for the great save Quaker.
Howd your experiment turn out?

 

[Quaker]

Good to hear. My experiment took an unexpected turn, but so far is also a major success. With my massive yeast pitch on a weak wort, it roared through it in 2 days. The foam atop dropped leaving a gooey, ropey film of yeast on the surface. I let it sit for a week more, and large (3/4") bubbles started to be noticeable in the goo. A day later and a beautiful, crystal white pellicle of lacto formed across the surface. I suspect with my short boil, that some lacto made it through on a spoon or other utensil being used. Anyway, I racked it onto a kilo of sour cherries where it still sits with a thick pellicle on top. I bottled 5 x 500ml bottles as is. Tasted excellent. Crisp, lightly tart and refreshing. I need to draw a sample of the other soon to see how it tastes. My current plan is to keg or bottle most of it when the cherries look completely broken down. (froze them and put them in whole, should have mash them a bit to break open the skins). Then pitch another batch of a base beer on top to use for blending purposes.

It inspired me to go further. I now have a blond ale with Russian River Supplication dregs sitting on white wine soaked oak next to it, and will soon have Flanders Red with Roselare and another blond with WLP644 Brett. So I'm finally getting some bugs going to play with blending way down the road. Next summer I hope to have some fun tasting and blending sessions.