Heff yeast with a stout?

[Commander_Nate]

I'm planning to make a stout for my next batch and the idea occurred to me to use a heff yeast to try and get some fruit flavors in there.

Has anyone had any success using heff yeast to make a stout or any other kind of non-heff beer for that matter?

 

[permo]

I'm planning to make a stout for my next batch and the idea occurred to me to use a heff yeast to try and get some fruit flavors in there.

Has anyone had any success using heff yeast to make a stout or any other kind of non-heff beer for that matter?

It sounds like a tasty idea to me, I currenty have an imperial stout in the works that uses Chimay yeast (WLP500). The only thing I would worry about with the heff yeast would be flocculation and attenuation. If you don't use finings or filter, you may get a cloudy stout.

 

[GuldTuborg]

If you don't use finings or filter, you may get a cloudy stout.

With all due respect, if you can see that your stout is cloudy, it isn't dark enough!

I'm wanting to say I heard most hefe yeasts produce their signature flavors when combined with wheat grain (which has compounds barley doesn't). Now I've been known to be dead wrong before, so I wouldn't take this as true, but rather something to look into first.

That said, what kind of "fruit" flavors are you looking to get? Anything your typical English yeast isn't going to give you? It may work, but I have a hard time imagining a cross between a hefeweizen and a stout, and an even harder time imagining it would taste good. Still, experimentation is one of the many benefits of homebrewing, so don't let me dissuade you if you like the idea. Consider Belgian ale yeasts as well, as mentioned above (lots of folks seem to like 1762 for stouts).

 

[Commander_Nate]

With all due respect, if you can see that your stout is cloudy, it isn't dark enough!

I'm wanting to say I heard most hefe yeasts produce their signature flavors when combined with wheat grain (which has compounds barley doesn't). Now I've been known to be dead wrong before, so I wouldn't take this as true, but rather something to look into first.

That said, what kind of "fruit" flavors are you looking to get? Anything your typical English yeast isn't going to give you? It may work, but I have a hard time imagining a cross between a hefeweizen and a stout, and an even harder time imagining it would taste good. Still, experimentation is one of the many benefits of homebrewing, so don't let me dissuade you if you like the idea. Consider Belgian ale yeasts as well, as mentioned above (lots of folks seem to like 1762 for stouts).

My goal is to see if I can get some banana flavoring in there and see how that combines with everything. I know some heff yeasts, typically German ones, will give you that, but I'm not sure which one to use or it's even worth trying.

I'm really tempted to go for it, I just don't want it to be a total failure...

 

[Potter1]

I've used the Bavarian Wheat yeast (dont remember the number, but it was Wyeast) for a belgian pale ale and a really whacked out porter. Worked great in the pale, not so much in the porter. I get where you are coming from, combining the chocolaty roastiness of a stout with the fruitiness of the hefe, but it didn't work too well for me, but what the hell. give it a try and maybe yours will be fantastic!

 

[northernlad]

If you don't use finings or filter, you may get a cloudy stout.

I laughed out loud.

 

[cfonnes]

Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan give banana esters. I do not know if it only works with wheat or not. If I was putting it in a stout I would under pitch it.

 

[annasdadhockey]

I'm really tempted to go for it, I just don't want it to be a total failure...

No one ever accomplished anything fearing total failure. Go for it.

 

[yodalegomaster]

A dark hefe is called a "Dampf Beer" it been around for 100's of years, its a very old german style. Do a search on Dampf beer and you will find a recipe. if no I can Post my recipe.

 

[Steinhaus]

I currently have a pumpkin ale fermenting with a Wyeast Hefeweizen (WLP 300) with the same idea- looking for some banana and clove notes.

Right now at week in primary it definitely has a strong banana nose which I hope will mellow out in the coming weeks.

 

[Commander_Nate]

A dark hefe is called a "Dampf Beer" it been around for 100's of years, its a very old german style. Do a search on Dampf beer and you will find a recipe. if no I can Post my recipe.

Interesting...I'll look into that. Is that the same thing as a "Dunkelweis?" I had a few of those during my stay in Germany and they were pretty good.

Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan give banana esters. I do not know if it only works with wheat or not. If I was putting it in a stout I would under pitch it.

What do you mean by "under pitch?" Forgive my ignorance, I'm still a n00b.

Thanks for the advice everyone, I'll keep researching a bit and maybe ask the guys at my local shops what they think too. I'll let you all know what I end up finding out.

 

[ian-atx]

To underpitch means to not add enough yeast to your fresh wort, so that it stresses the yeast somewhat during fermentation. Some of the esters that hefe yeasts put out are increased when stressed...thus the advice of underpitching of yeast (when normally it would be undesirable).

 

[martinworswick]

would this be anywhere near a weizenbock? thats the image/taste it conjured in my mind anyway!

 

[adamjab19]

weizenbock isn't nearly as roasty as a stout but the color would be similar.

as a side note: I throughly enjoy people trying out different yeasts. But please come back and keep the thread updated with some tasting notes. thanks in advance!

 

[suprchunk]

A dark hefe is called a "Dampf Beer" it been around for 100's of years, its a very old german style. Do a search on Dampf beer and you will find a recipe. if no I can Post my recipe.

Except that it is gold to amber in color. And it is the original steam beer, I would assume since it had been in production since before Anchor.

 

[Commander_Nate]

I currently have a pumpkin ale fermenting with a Wyeast Hefeweizen (WLP 300) with the same idea- looking for some banana and clove notes.

Right now at week in primary it definitely has a strong banana nose which I hope will mellow out in the coming weeks.

I see. Did you use a wheat extract or something else? Since my basic idea is supposed to be a stout, I was going to use Coopers Light or something like that.

as a side note: I throughly enjoy people trying out different yeasts. But please come back and keep the thread updated with some tasting notes. thanks in advance!

I'll do my best!

 

[Steinhaus]

I see. Did you use a wheat extract or something else? Since my basic idea is supposed to be a stout, I was going to use Coopers Light or something like that.

I used 10.0lbs Amber LME, 2.0lbs 40L Crystal, 1.0lb Biscuit, and 30 oz. Pumpkin Pie Mix.

It tasted pretty good before I pitched the yeast and the fermentation took off within 8 hours from the starter I had made ~0.5 gallon.

 

[Commander_Nate]

Ok folks, I had to wait an extra week because the shop was out of the hops I wanted, but I was finally able to get started with this experiment. This is my first completely original recipe and I decided to try a lot of ideas I had floating around. I used the trial version of Beersmith to help me construct the recipe.

8# - Coopers Light Liquid Malt Extract
0.5# - Roasted Barely
0.5# - Chocolate Malt
0.5# Crystal 60L

Steeped the grains above for 30 min.

1 oz -Pacific Gem pellets (60 min.)

1 oz - Pacific Gem pellets (5 min.)

Pitched with White Labs WLP-300 Hefeweizen Ale Yeast.

OG estimate - 1.059

Right now, it's a real nice, dark, chocolaty brown color sitting in my carboy in the downstairs closet. Smelled awesome too while I was brewing it. I don't have a secondary or anything, but I should have an update on how this is going in the next two weeks or so!

 

[AviatorTroy]

I know you already brewed, and I like your idea! However, since it's a German yeast, I find that using German type grains such as dark munich and Carafa III work better with the Weinhestephan strains. I brewed a cdunkelweizen with a significant amount of chocolate malt once and it turned out sort of weird.

 

[wetzie]

I had a Hef pitched with the Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen. I used the used yeast stored in a mason jar on a Brewers Best English Ale. The fermentation was very active and the temps got to 72f. The beer is conditioned 4 weeks and it tastes different. It starts out like an english ale but quickly finishes with the typical higher temp Hef banan esters. I don't like it but everybody else does. It is not the profile I was looking for.

 

[EoinMag]

A dark hefe is called a "Dampf Beer" it been around for 100's of years, its a very old german style. Do a search on Dampf beer and you will find a recipe. if no I can Post my recipe.

Sorry that's wrong, a dark Hefe is called a Dunkles Hefe Weizen, a "dampfbier" translates to steam beer.

So Dunkel Weizen is dark Hefe, not dampfbier.

From German wikipedia
Dampfbier
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Dampfbier

Dampfbier ist ein obergäriges, nur leicht gehopftes Gerstenbier. Den Namen erhielt es von den Brauern, weil die Gärung vor allem an der Oberfläche der Maische stattfindet und die zerplatzenden Kohlensäurebläschen (Schaum) wie Dampf aussehen. Einige Brauer der Gründerzeit titulierten ihr Bier ebenfalls als "Dampfbier", da sie eine Dampfmaschine bei der Bierherstellung benutzen. Sie drückten mit dem Namensbestandteil Fortschritt und Modernität aus.

Steam beer is a top fermenting, lightly hopped barley beer. The name comes from the brewers because the fermentation takes place on top of the wort and the exploding foambubbles look like steam. Some brewers from the early days called their beers steam beers because they used a steam engine in the beers production. They wanted to appear modern and with the times through the naming.

 

[EoinMag]

And while I'm at it, it's Hefe, being the German word for yeast.

Heff is the dude who owns playboy.

 

[Commander_Nate]

And while I'm at it, it's Hefe, being the German word for yeast.

Heff is the dude who owns playboy.

Yeah, I realized that after I made the thread...unfortunately can't change now. Kind of embarrassing considering I used to speak a little German.

I had a Hef pitched with the Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen. I used the used yeast stored in a mason jar on a Brewers Best English Ale. The fermentation was very active and the temps got to 72f. The beer is conditioned 4 weeks and it tastes different. It starts out like an english ale but quickly finishes with the typical higher temp Hef banan esters. I don't like it but everybody else does. It is not the profile I was looking for.

Interesting. I had a very active fermentation on this batch during the first day/night. It actually overflowed through the airlock a few times and left me having to clean up a decent mess. It calmed down after the first day, though. First time that's ever happened to me, so now I know to have a sanitized tube and bucket of water ready!

 

[wetzie]

Yeah, I realized that after I made the thread...unfortunately can't change now. Kind of embarrassing considering I used to speak a little German.



Interesting. I had a very active fermentation on this batch during the first day/night. It actually overflowed through the airlock a few times and left me having to clean up a decent mess. It calmed down after the first day, though. First time that's ever happened to me, so now I know to have a sanitized tube and bucket of water ready!

Same problem as it seemed to me to be too active. I was cleaning the airlock quit a bit for the first two days. Using this moethod of yeast reuse I always worry if I am using too much or little yeast as I have not measured it yet.
Anybody know?

 

[uwjester]

So I know I'm a week late to the party here, but if you do this recipe again, you could always use chocolate wheat malt in the steeping grains. Regardless, I like your recipe. I think the wheat extract is going to give you good body and work well with the wlp300. Please keep us updated on how the flavor comes out.

 

[syd138]

I've made a Wheat Stout with heffe yeast.

Honestly the chocolate and roasted barley overpowered the wheat and heffe taste.

It tasted just like a normal stout.

 

[Commander_Nate]

UPDATE

I bottled on the 21st with 4 Oz of cane sugar. FG estimate was around 1.021.

I could really taste the roast flavors of the stout in the sample I tried. I couldn't really taste anything else as far as the hops or banana notes, but I did smell it very clearly while it was fermenting. I'll pop a few open in a couple of weeks and see how this experiment ended up!

 

[Commander_Nate]

Okay, so I popped open several of these over the past weekend and shared them amongst some of my friends.

The banana flavoring did not come out anywhere near as strong as I expected, but overall it is a very good beer. It is a very dark, sort of milky brown in color and very tasty. You can really notice the roast and coffee-like flavors as you drink it. The banana is more noticable as a subtle aroma, especially when you first open a bottle and also as a slight aftertaste while drinking it. It's very smooth too...one of my roommates described it (in a good way) as kind of a "light stout". I think both the hefe yeast and the Pacific Gem might have helped contribute to this a bit.

Overall, I'd say this was a good experiment even though I didn't quite get the results I was going for. The next time I try this, I'll probably mess with the grain bill a bit to see if I can get the banana notes to stand out more.

 

[JonK331]

That would be an overly roasty Dunkel Weisse. Could not be called a stout with hefe yeast. Sounds good though.

 

[wetzie]

That is good to hear it was a fun experiement. My beer has aged about two months and the bannana flavor is way down. The flavor is very good and drinkable as most of it is gone now. I agree with the roasty grain bill being a little too much. I think I may try a Sam Adams clone with the Heffe yeast next time.

 

[BrookdaleBrew]

Stone did an imperial porter last year with the Wyeast 3522 Ardennes strain for their 09.09.09 Vertical Epic. I thought it was awesome. I was thinking of doing an imperial stout with this yeast. It gave tons of awesome banana flavor and it worked well with the darker malts.

 

[Commander_Nate]

That would be an overly roasty Dunkel Weisse. Could not be called a stout with hefe yeast. Sounds good though.

I figured this would be kind of a style-bender. I went with stout because of the base recipe idea.

That is good to hear it was a fun experiement. My beer has aged about two months and the bannana flavor is way down. The flavor is very good and drinkable as most of it is gone now. I agree with the roasty grain bill being a little too much. I think I may try a Sam Adams clone with the Heffe yeast next time.

Sounds tasty!

Stone did an imperial porter last year with the Wyeast 3522 Ardennes strain for their 09.09.09 Vertical Epic. I thought it was awesome. I was thinking of doing an imperial stout with this yeast. It gave tons of awesome banana flavor and it worked well with the darker malts.

Hmm...I'll keep that in mind for the next time I try this. The description of it on the Wyeast website is pretty interesting. Have you used that strain yourself?

 

[BrookdaleBrew]

Hmm...I'll keep that in mind for the next time I try this. The description of it on the Wyeast website is pretty interesting. Have you used that strain yourself?

I have not used it myself, but the plan is to do a big chocolate stout and ferment with that strain. I want a beer that tastes like chocolate covered bananas.